Next generation of consoles come in Page 109

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  • Armoured_Bear 3 Mar 2013 23:18:19 11,891 posts
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    It saddens me that the best part about the wiimote (pointing and aiming) seems to be forgotten :-(

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  • Humperfunk 3 Mar 2013 23:22:56 2,492 posts
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    Shaking the Wii remote to make Mario spin was shit and unnecessary.

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  • RobTheBuilder 3 Mar 2013 23:25:12 6,521 posts
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    @Humperfunk In what way?
    In that it negated needing to use an extra button?
    In that it translated a simple real life action to a method of control?

    I played both Galaxy games from start to finish, and at no point did it ever even cross my mind that anyone could ever find the shaking to spin feature annoying. It was naturally and smoothly implemented.
  • Deleted user 3 March 2013 23:25:45
    I "got" the Mario Galaxy controls in seconds. I just thought it was mostly unnecessary. Shaking the wiimote to do the spin jump added absolutely nothing for me, no extra layer of involvement or immersion that making it a simple button press would have done. The fact that the game is absolutely equal (if not better, according to several, including myself) in playability when played on a regular joypad through Dolphin speaks volumes, frankly.
  • Lukus 3 Mar 2013 23:28:03 19,466 posts
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    Shaking the Wiimote to make Mario spin jump is a bit like tossing him off, if you think about it...

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  • RobTheBuilder 3 Mar 2013 23:28:41 6,521 posts
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    @meme Just sounds like cynicism to me I'm afraid. The game is fantastic however you control it, but for me the Wiimote controls suited it perfectly, and it loses an element of immersion when you take that away from it.
  • King_Edward 3 Mar 2013 23:33:13 11,471 posts
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    @RobTheBuiler

    Yes, SMG is perfectly playble, but it isn't changed or improved by the Wiimote, and is, in fact, hampered by it. It being a great game is irrelevant, as it fails to to justify motion controls, and as far as I'm aware no other game did either. So where's the innovation?

    Just thought of Wii Sports, and even then it's a mixed bag, what innovations there were came with extreme limitations.

    Edited by King_Edward at 23:37:46 03-03-2013
  • Deleted user 3 March 2013 23:35:22
    It's not cynicism. If it were cynicism I would have said the spin controls were jarring and awkward (which is a complaint some do have). Again, the fact that multiple people can (and do) completely enjoy the game on a regular joypad without feeling like they're missing anything demonstrates that it shouldn't really be heralded as a great example of the supposed innovation inherent to the wii controls.
  • RobTheBuilder 3 Mar 2013 23:38:38 6,521 posts
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    @King_Edward I disagree, it was in no way hampered by motion controls. As for games that utilised motion control well, they were sadly relatively thin, but more did it than people think. Of the ones I've played, Excitetruck and Boom Blox 1/2 did. Wii Sports/sports resort and EA Sports Active did too.
  • mrpon 3 Mar 2013 23:39:21 29,563 posts
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    Red Steel 2 (note the 2) justified motion controls. Made pretty good use of the M+ add-on with almost 1:1 sword fighting/parrying.

    Give yourself 5 or gig, you're worth it.

  • RobTheBuilder 3 Mar 2013 23:41:37 6,521 posts
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    @meme It still sounds like cynicism. That sense that any control requiring movement is inherently worse than a button press. Galaxy was never really held as a beacon of innovation as far as the wiimote goes, but I maintain that having played all the main Mario games, these gained a sense of immersion and fun from that piece of control. It was so simple and easy that I find it baffling how anyone could be annoyed by it. I had relatives who barely touch games who got it within seconds.
  • Deleted user 3 March 2013 23:48:08
    I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that any control requiring movement in place of a literal button press (as in "shake remote to jump/reload/press button" or whatever - a binary on/off action rather than a rough analogue replication - "thrust wiimote to swing sword in that direction" ) is unnecessary, not inherently worse.

    Again, I'll point out that I "got" it in seconds. That doesn't mean I didn't find it somewhat pointless. Saying something is unnecessary is not the same thing as saying it was annoying.

    Edited by meme at 23:49:24 03-03-2013
  • EMarkM 3 Mar 2013 23:50:32 3,430 posts
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    Have to confess I hated that shake mechanic in SMG and also the sword fighting in Skyward Sword, which I otherwise completely loved.

    The only use of the Wiimote that I really enjoyed was Zack & Wiki, Wii Sports Golf and Bowling, and Tiger Woods Golf.

    Found it to be totally immersion-breaking everywhere else.
  • RobTheBuilder 3 Mar 2013 23:57:57 6,521 posts
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    @meme But the whole point of that kind of control is that you have a different kind of experience. To suggest a movement is instinctively unnecessary regardless of the title of game being played IS being cynical. If it isn't a control pad, playing in the way I am used to it, it is unnecessary.

    You might not like it. But, (in the very best examples at least) it is not unnecessary. It is an inherent part of the design of the game in order to achieve an experience different to that of 360/PS3 games.

    Boom Blox for example is ONLY fun due to the relative movement controls.
  • Bremenacht 3 Mar 2013 23:59:52 19,663 posts
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    Wii Sports and Resort made excellent use of the Wiimote(+). Justified it, even.

    Boom Blox was pretty good too.

    Edited by Bremenacht at 00:00:26 04-03-2013
  • Bremenacht 4 Mar 2013 00:00:13 19,663 posts
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    Not exactly a long list of titles though.
  • Deleted user 4 March 2013 00:01:33
    You're utterly missing what I'm saying. I just stated that relative movement was absolutely fine, it's when it's literally joypad controls tranposed onto waggle (shake to do what a button press does, nothing more) that it's unnecessary, and that's what plagued the vast majority of games on the Wii. Boom Blox was a great example of the advantages the Wiimote had over a control pad. Spinning in Mario Galaxy was not, in the slightest. Saying you can have a "different experience" is meaningless when most of the titles don't bother to make use of it.

    Edited by meme at 00:04:03 04-03-2013
  • RobTheBuilder 4 Mar 2013 00:02:25 6,521 posts
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    @Bremenacht No, sadly most developers didn't ever bother to utilise it.

    But I hate the concept that people have whereby anythng with motion controls is inherently bad. No, it was just badly implemented by most developers.
  • RobTheBuilder 4 Mar 2013 00:04:09 6,521 posts
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    @meme Well that makes more sense. I did think that was a bit of an uneducated comment for someone like you! :)

    I know what you mean, but I still think the Mario spin was so very simple and fun that it added to the game.

    Edited by RobTheBuilder at 00:04:27 04-03-2013
  • speedofthepuma 4 Mar 2013 00:04:14 13,320 posts
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    MEME! STOP SAYING MOTION CONTROLS ARE INHERENTLY BAD.

    I lurk. If I've spoken to you, I'm either impassioned, or drunk.

  • RobTheBuilder 4 Mar 2013 00:05:35 6,521 posts
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    speedofthepuma wrote:
    MEME! STOP SAYING MOTION CONTROLS ARE INHERENTLY BAD.
    Hah!
  • Bremenacht 4 Mar 2013 00:11:01 19,663 posts
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    RobTheBuilder wrote:
    I know what you mean, but I still think the Mario spin was so very simple and fun that it added to the game.
    If anything it was annoying, when it thought you were still spinning from last time and ignored your input, leaving you waggling like a nutter.

    Waggle was a distraction for me. It detracted from the game, drawing attention to a hardware limitation.
  • PenguinJim 4 Mar 2013 00:20:41 6,010 posts
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    Couldn't play RE5 after being spoiled by RE4's excellent Wii controls.
  • RobTheBuilder 4 Mar 2013 00:42:47 6,521 posts
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    @Bremenacht Fair enough. But not once in either playthrough did it ever cause any issue for me, nor those I watched play it.
  • andytheadequate 4 Mar 2013 00:55:53 8,357 posts
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    Bremenacht wrote:
    RobTheBuilder wrote:
    I know what you mean, but I still think the Mario spin was so very simple and fun that it added to the game.
    If anything it was annoying, when it thought you were still spinning from last time and ignored your input, leaving you waggling like a nutter.

    Waggle was a distraction for me. It detracted from the game, drawing attention to a hardware limitation.
    Indeed. The only Wii games I enjoyed using the controller for were Wii Sports, Tin Tin (I expected the waggling in it to be awful), and Broken Sword 1.

    I would have enjoyed Mario Galaxy, Zelda and Okami more if I had played them on a more traditional controller. Skyward Sword and Mario Galaxy were fairly well implemented (although still not quite natural - waggling to attack in Mario was a bit temperamental), but Okami was borderline unplayable at times.
  • sega 4 Mar 2013 00:56:19 908 posts
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    Some games made great use of the remote: Resident Evil 4, Sin & Punishment, Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, Bit Trip Complete, Metroid Prime Trilogy, Metroid: Other M, Skyward Sword and Broken Sword (and other point n click titles) are a few that come to mind.

    I can agree with the remote shaking irritations, though. I can't say it bothered me in Mario Galaxy at all but it certainly did in Donkey Kong Country Returns. I found shaking the remote for the ground pound attack to be quite frustrating and just wished I could map it to a button. Definitely didn't ruin the game, but did annoy at times.

    I kind of disappointed Nintendo has moved away from the Wii remote this generation. I really thought the control method would keep evolving and find other uses. I even sometimes find myself trying to select programs on the Sky TV menu by pointing that remote at the screen instinctively from using Wii Netflix. It's madness Nintendo have put it second to a tablet as it's a great control method when used properly, especially for menu navigation. I kind of wish the Wii U just used Wii remotes, classic and GameCube controllers like before.
  • mal 4 Mar 2013 01:30:53 22,830 posts
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    One good thing about motion controls in SMG was the 2p pointer, who could hoover up stars or make Mario pratfall at inopportune moments. But that's about it.

    The wiimote for me worked in Bit Trip Beat and Let's Tap, and of course the pack-in Sports games. Generally, for me, waggle on its own is fine, but waggle with buttons is generally still too much of a headfuck for me to be arsed.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • Raiko101 4 Mar 2013 04:36:56 6,707 posts
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    I liked Excite Truck and Mario Kart Wii because of the motion control. Some how that plastic steering wheel made the latter feel better in the hands. Would love to see support for it with NFS:MW.

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  • figaro7 4 Mar 2013 08:22:16 1,385 posts
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    I thought i read that NFS:MW is supporting wiimote controls. I think the biggest problem that faced the wii was people didnt fully grasp the concept of waggling and pointing. The pointing contols made every shooter on the wii enjoyable and the waggling was good if used appropriately.

    If there's one thing i remember fondly of the wii that the wii u failed to deliver on its the launch period. New play styles, playing games such as rayman raving rabbids, monkey ball banana blitz, ssx blur and eledees. Games like that were barely above average but they were fun thanks to the clever uses of the wiimote. I just didnt get that from nintendoland, but the wii u gamepad has some really good potential too.

    The wii screamed fun to me every time i played it, even the average games. On the other side i still enjoy my 360, but sometimes games that shoot for HD glory are all too serious.

    This is where the Wii U is kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place and for that developers may brush aside the console completely, if they arent already doing so.
  • Ultrasoundwave 4 Mar 2013 11:45:07 3,411 posts
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    Interesting bit taken from an Ubisoft employee talking about Assassins Creed 4 :

    "In addition to improved graphics and physic, Next Gen versions will bring to the players new connected features allowing them to feel that even if they remain 'Single Player' it will be better to be a 'Single Connected Player'," explained Guesdon.

    "I mean, that Next Gen Consoles will allow players to have a solo experience that benefits the presence of a huge community."

    "Single Connected Player"?, i guess this pretty much confirms that the next xbox will also have a 'Share' functionality similar to the PS4.

    "The worst part is, I'll have to have the break-up sex with myself!"

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