Next generation of consoles come in Page 97

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  • mal 24 Feb 2013 01:14:55 22,793 posts
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    Oh yeah, it was only a flippant post. It's more of a software thing that makes it more feasible these days than it was in 1995 though. If you were making games for the Saturn today, developments in SMP, and general improvements in toolchains would mean you could make some incredible games on it relatively easily.

    Still, just blindly doubling RAM, CPUs, GPUs etc. Is unlikely to give you a well balanced system (unless you were somehow able to double the bandwidth of the interconnecting busses too, I suppose).

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • RobTheBuilder 24 Feb 2013 01:17:54 6,521 posts
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    @mal Yeah, I think for MS it would be worth investing to noticeably outclass PS4, as I think on an equal footing of price and power Sony will win.
  • sanctusmortis 24 Feb 2013 09:25:10 9,707 posts
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    Well, the idea behind AMD's APUs is that you pair it with a relatively cheap mid-range card (75xx or 76xx rather than the high-end) with the chip's GPU giving a 25-40% graphical boost. So, if that 2.5Tflops figure is correct, that makes sense. The memory would benefit from a re-jig if that's what they're doing though, even if it's just that it's GDDR3 rather than the standard PC DDR3. Quadruples the bandwidth, IIRC, as it can request and process at same time.
  • mcmothercruncher 24 Feb 2013 09:45:40 7,538 posts
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    There nothing Microsoft can do Rob, now that they know the PS4 spec... Unless they'd already happened to plan a more powerful console. The 720 has been decided on for a good while now, such is the length of time needed in hardware to source components and factories and EXTREMELY loud cooling fans.
  • beastmaster 24 Feb 2013 09:50:22 11,803 posts
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    There's also all the devs who are currently working on titles. To change the hardware specs now would be impossible.



    One thing that seems odd about PS4 is the welcome reaction to the extra RAM. Wouldn't they have already known this? Perhaps they just couldn't say anything at the time.

    Edit: From the developers that is.

    Edited by beastmaster at 09:51:01 24-02-2013

    The Resident Evil films. I'm one of the reasons they keep making them.

  • ubergine 24 Feb 2013 11:25:24 2,685 posts
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    Sony have a history of artificially reducing system resources available to devs then releasing them over time, ensuring (?) better looking games as time passes.

    Which happens anyway, so it's a stupid policy maybe.

    If Sony weren't sure they could get 8 gigs of this stuff in there (which Digital Foundry said was basically impossible to currently known science) they would have made 4 gigs available to launch-window developers.

    We also don't know how that 8 gigs will be allocated exactly... the machine recording all gaming footage may take up 4 gigs for all I know. The whole 8 won't be available to devs anyway, I'd be pretty confident in baselessly claiming.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/ubergine

  • Maturin 24 Feb 2013 11:39:51 3,155 posts
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    beastmaster wrote:
    There's also all the devs who are currently working on titles. To change the hardware specs now would be impossible.



    One thing that seems odd about PS4 is the welcome reaction to the extra RAM. Wouldn't they have already known this? Perhaps they just couldn't say anything at the time.

    Edit: From the developers that is.
    Wasn't the X360 RAM increased during the development cycle due to pressure from Epic Games and others?

    It seems some elements can be changed during development. If a dev is working on a PC and multi-console title it's conceivable that the game features switches the dev can control at any point along the road to going gold.

    For example if you seen the recent front page article about Most Wanted on the WiiU - the devs just changed one setting to allow that version of the game to use the higher-resolution PC textures.

    I'm not suggesting the Xbox 720 has two GPUs, but I can imagine the change during game development isn't that big a deal. And such things matter more towards the end of development going into crunch time and optimisation.

    After all the PS3 Watch Dogs presentation was on PC configured to be close to PS4 performance. I imagine much of that code will be the same as on PS4 and will be locked down and optimised late in the process. If Sony then added some more RAM that could be easily taken into consideration.
  • mal 24 Feb 2013 11:55:20 22,793 posts
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    Details of the spec would always have been under NDA, which effectively gets superceded when specs go public. So yeah, I'd expect it was all reaction delayed.

    @Maturin Any developer writing 3d games since the days of Doom has written in constants which control the level of detail on that specific build. You tweak them on specific platforms, or leave them in the options screen on more diverse platforms. It's all about optimisation once all the assets have been settled, and ensuring everything can be loaded in time at the level of detail specified.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • RobTheBuilder 24 Feb 2013 13:15:16 6,521 posts
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    @mcmothercruncher Of course there is. For all we know they may have been waiting for Sony to confirm specs before deciding on their final specification. It might delay launch a little, but they could do it.

    My gut feeling is that with Remoteplay (that xbox cannot do) and Eyetoy (Covering off the Kinect) Microsoft need something special to stand a hope of beating PS4. At equal spec and equal price Sony will win.

    Of course, a bargain basement price could do that, but as Sony haven't announced theirs yet, it could spark a price war.
  • ubergine 24 Feb 2013 14:02:51 2,685 posts
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    I think there is more powerful sentiment against Microsoft at this present time and very little against Sony, and that it was the opposite situation when 360 and PS3 launched. Sony had an uphill battle to please consumers after ditching Kutaragi but by that time people had made their choice.

    With a new generation... well, it's kind of the perfect "jumping off" point for people currently tied to Xbox but generally sick of Microsoft's abuses.

    Might make a great photoshop when the Nextbox is revealed: "Jump Off".

    http://www.youtube.com/user/ubergine

  • matrim83 24 Feb 2013 15:45:11 5,597 posts
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    I think Sony are making the right moves. The redesigned sticks, triggers and the controller in general is a lot more attractive to me (as a primarily 360 gamer) than the DS3 ever was. The console specs are also very encouraging. As is their focus on games.

    I fully expect the MS conference to be 70% dedicated to the Kinect and add on functions. Lets see.

    Valar morghulis.

  • Fake_Blood 24 Feb 2013 15:49:11 4,385 posts
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    I think ps+ has a lot to do with the general good sony vibe of late.
  • Deleted user 24 February 2013 16:08:54
    The dual shock 4 certainly looks much improved but the location of the sticks is still a concern. Without holding the pad myself I won't truly know how it will feel to use.

    I like the idea of the share button and the fact that the dev community seems extremely positive about the tech means that I'm extremely open to the prospect of getting a PlayStation this time around.

    For me Microsoft will have to convince me of their focus towards core gaming to be under my TV next generation.

    I have been watching Sony for a while and have been impressed by their instant games collection initiative. If they can offer similar value with the PS4 it's going to be hard to resist.

    Show me games.
  • Deleted user 24 February 2013 16:29:57
    Fuck it, I'm opening a savings account this month anyway for a holiday at the end of the year. Might as well put an extra bit in a month and whack a preorder down.
  • Blotto 24 Feb 2013 16:31:59 2,777 posts
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    My trouble with the PS4 is that they're not dropping Killzone/Mediamolecule stuff for new exclusives. I didn't like them last gen and I don't want them this gen.

    Same applies for the next box to some extent. Sure I actually liked Gears of War/Halo but for the love of god please no more. Get some new IP's.
  • Deleted user 24 February 2013 16:42:17
    mcmothercruncher wrote:
    There nothing Microsoft can do Rob, now that they know the PS4 spec... Unless they'd already happened to plan a more powerful console. The 720 has been decided on for a good while now, such is the length of time needed in hardware to source components and factories and EXTREMELY loud cooling fans.
    Could be quite possible that the 720 as more spec power than what we know, or 'sources' have been left to believe as well. You are right though, its too late to change anything meaningful, well as various websites keep pointing out.

    Afterall we were suprised by the ps4 ram stuff.
  • djronz. 24 Feb 2013 16:48:58 286 posts
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    Blotto wrote:
    My trouble with the PS4 is that they're not dropping Killzone/Mediamolecule stuff for new exclusives. I didn't like them last gen and I don't want them this gen.

    Same applies for the next box to some extent. Sure I actually liked Gears of War/Halo but for the love of god please no more. Get some new IP's.
    Sony have continually provided new ip's over 3 generations of console.  Yes there will be sequels to its biggest ones but there was no uncharted or lbp before this gen and there will be new ones on ps4.
  • RedSparrows 24 Feb 2013 16:52:59 23,882 posts
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    MS also provided new IPs. When it suited them. It's very easy to forget when there's new sequels every year, but MS have a clear policy: new console, get big IPs/new IPs, hook the base, sequels, next console etc...
  • beastmaster 24 Feb 2013 17:01:03 11,803 posts
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    Rare will no doubt show some original Ips for launch.

    The Resident Evil films. I'm one of the reasons they keep making them.

  • rare_uk 24 Feb 2013 17:03:59 3,570 posts
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    I got nuttin' for you man...
    ;)

    Edited by rare_uk at 17:04:30 24-02-2013
  • fletch7100 24 Feb 2013 17:41:09 7,441 posts
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    Talk about MS have 4 new IPs, probably all kinect titles :).

    Current rumours are one is a sci fi shooter. Big surprise there

    http://www.computerandvideogames.com/389155/microsoft-working-on-multiple-new-xbox-ips/

    Edited by fletch7100 at 17:46:05 24-02-2013
  • Deleted user 24 February 2013 17:58:54
    Not sure why people get so hung up on new IPs from either MS or Sony.

    They'll just be slightly different skins for "Shooting Mans 2014", "Driving Mans 2014" and "Jumping Mans 2014" anyway.

    The industry needs fresh ideas not new universes for the settings of the exact same games as this gen with shinier graphics. The Sony conference did nothing to relieve my ennui with gaming as a whole.
  • matrim83 24 Feb 2013 17:59:40 5,597 posts
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    RedSparrows wrote:
    MS also provided new IPs. When it suited them. It's very easy to forget when there's new sequels every year, but MS have a clear policy: new console, get big IPs/new IPs, hook the base, sequels, next console etc...
    This is IMO part of the problem and why I would be a little wary of getting an Xbox next gen.

    They had a bunch of good games early on in the Xbox's life but kinda abandoned them over the last few years.

    Dont get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE Halo. Its the only game that can sell me a console on its own. But MS need to do more than they have been doing the last few years. Abandoning all first party games to focus only on Halo/Gears/Forza and Kinect games has earned them a (fairly well deserved) bad rep.

    spudsbuckley wrote:
    Not sure why people get so hung up on new IPs from either MS or Sony.

    They'll just be slightly different skins for "Shooting Mans 2014", "Driving Mans 2014" and "Jumping Mans 2014" anyway.

    The industry needs fresh ideas not new universes for the settings of the exact same games as this gen with shinier graphics. The Sony conference did nothing to relieve my ennui with gaming as a whole.
    Then you are looking in the wrong place. There are PLENTY of fresh interesting ideas in the PC Indie/XBLA/PSN side of things. Not many publishers want to take risks with 20 million dollar games so be prepared for more "Shooting man" etc games.

    Edited by matrim83 at 18:01:35 24-02-2013

    Valar morghulis.

  • Deleted user 24 February 2013 18:06:25
    matrim83 wrote:
    There are PLENTY of fresh interesting ideas in the PC Indie/XBLA/PSN side of things. Not many publishers want to take risks with 20 million dollar games so be prepared for more "Shooting man" etc games.
    See, this argument is utter bullshit.

    There are some quality indie games out there but they are just as guilty of sticking to reskinning genre-games (just usually different genres than the big devs).

    For a while it was all tower defense, then it was all platformers. Indie devs jump on bandwagons just as easily as big studios.
  • matrim83 24 Feb 2013 18:24:39 5,597 posts
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    Really? Just over the last year alone I can probably list - Chivalry, FTL, Fez, Mark of the Ninja, Highborn, Skulls of the Shogun, Antichamber, Spelunky (different enough from the PC to count :p) etc. And thats just off the top of my head.

    None of them are what I would call band wagon games.

    Edited by matrim83 at 18:25:17 24-02-2013

    Valar morghulis.

  • Deleted user 24 February 2013 18:33:46
    Yeah but weigh that against the hundreds, nay thousands of other Indy releases released over the last year that are devoid of any originality.
  • King_Edward 24 Feb 2013 18:38:24 11,467 posts
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    spudsbuckley wrote:
    Not sure why people get so hung up on new IPs from either MS or Sony.

    They'll just be slightly different skins for "Shooting Mans 2014", "Driving Mans 2014" and "Jumping Mans 2014" anyway.
    Hate to agree with Spuds but there is at least some truth in this. If Guerrilla weren't working on KZ4 they'd be making the same thing with a different name.
  • Deleted user 24 February 2013 18:39:33
    I love Halo and although I liked 343's approximation it does feel like a formula that's running out of steam.

    The formula needs a kick up the arse, something I'm hoping Bungie deliver. Their teasing is ill conceived, I'm hoping the designers are better than the marketeers in this instance but the prospect is a tantalising one.

    If they pull it off then it will hopefully scratch the Halo itch whilst taking it to te next level. If that happens then MS will need more up teir sleeve.

    I don't much like where they're heading at the moment, they seem to be spreading themselves a bit thin chasing every conceivable consumer possible. They need focus.

    Neither giant has exclusives that I'm clamouring for at the moment, I'm more concerned by what the likes of Rockstar, Valve and Bungie are up to.

    Edited by AdamAsunder at 18:41:58 24-02-2013
  • PhoenixFlames 24 Feb 2013 19:20:55 9,227 posts
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    Playing devil's advocate...it's got to be a bit nuts to choose before both PS4 and 720 have revealed all, no?

    PSN - phoenix1flames

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