Next generation of consoles come in Page 90

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  • Dirtbox 22 Feb 2013 02:26:23 77,454 posts
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    BearableBear wrote:
    Dirtbox wrote:
    I've completely forgotten the direction I was going with this.

    But I think it had something to do with this next generation bringing nothing more than shinier graphics and facebook.
    Its too early to assume that. Now that Sony will openly welcome indie developers innovation is a sure thing.
    According to them, they have always been at the forefront of indie developer support with PSN, which might give you some idea of how little stock I take in that statement.

    Only Journey seems to have broken through the mess and made a name for itself, and it's not even the best indie game on there.

    Edited by Dirtbox at 02:27:44 22-02-2013

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  • Dirtbox 22 Feb 2013 02:30:39 77,454 posts
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    Sony appear to have lost the woman's vote in classic style then.

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  • speedofthepuma 22 Feb 2013 02:48:25 13,266 posts
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    :D

    Classic own goal.

    I've turned off all the avatars and crap, so don't expect me to be impressed by yours.

  • ecureuil 22 Feb 2013 02:49:00 76,480 posts
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    Well at least it's better than the racist PSP ad campaign.
  • X201 22 Feb 2013 06:48:02 15,124 posts
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    Which region is it from?
  • 16bitworld 22 Feb 2013 07:36:20 2 posts
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    @J.C

    People are making too much of the GDDR5 announcement by Sony. Yes the PS4 will be scarily quick but not even the latest gaming PC's have DDR5 ram for pure ram, only on the GPU side of things. Microsoft should double the module size going into the Xbox after seeing what Sony announced so (16GB) but I don't know how many modules are on the dev motherboard, so it may not be possible this late in the game (I think it is as shown by sony)

    The more interesting thing they could change is the amount of ESRAM available from 32 MB that is rumoured to 64MB or even more than that combined with higher ram... but perhaps they already know they don't need to, and are happy with the position they find themselves in. For all the talk of limitations being discussed Microsoft if nothing changes when the console is announced will have found solutions. I would make sure there's 16GB of RAM and 64MB of ESRAM just to make sure Sony have a more than capable competitor to deal with.

    Not even going into Lower Latency for the next Xbox with more ESRAM included and we already know GDDR5 ram is higher latency and will cause heating issues if not dealt with properly in the R&D Process.

    Durango has no video memory (VRAM) in the traditional sense, but the GPU does contain 32 MB of fast embedded SRAM (ESRAM). ESRAM on Durango is free from many of the restrictions that affect EDRAM on Xbox 360. Durango supports the following scenarios:
    Texturing from ESRAM
    Rendering to surfaces in main RAM
    Read back from render targets without performing a resolve (in certain cases)


    The difference in throughput between ESRAM and main RAM is moderate: 102.4 GB/sec versus 68 GB/sec. The advantages of ESRAM are lower latency and lack of contention from other memory clients—for instance the CPU, I/O, and display output. Low latency is particularly important for sustaining peak performance of the color blocks (CBs) and depth blocks (DBs).
    Local Shared Memory and Global Shared Memory


    Edited by 16bitworld at 07:37:06 22-02-2013

    Edited by 16bitworld at 07:38:51 22-02-2013
  • King_Edward 22 Feb 2013 08:51:48 11,454 posts
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  • sanctusmortis 22 Feb 2013 08:58:54 9,627 posts
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    I don't think for a minute that Sony's spec is based on anything but the rumours of what was in a Durango kit circa 2012. The difference is, Sony have announced now - the bed is made, they must lie in it. Microsoft will wait til around GDC, and announce then. We honestly don't have anything more than target specs and dev kits, and they could be playing a real game here and sold Sony a dummy.

    That is what we're seeing here, IMO: Sony took a jump to react to the MS rumours, so it looks like they did it all first to the public. Microsoft let it happen, so they can react to that and change bits here and there, then commit it to manufacture.
  • Ultrasoundwave 22 Feb 2013 09:08:42 3,264 posts
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    Just pre-ordered the PS4 from Shopto, mooted price of £400 but thats only a guess.

    No more details until June i suppose :confused:

    "The worst part is, I'll have to have the break-up sex with myself!"

  • King_Edward 22 Feb 2013 09:14:09 11,454 posts
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    sanctusmortis wrote:
    I don't think for a minute that Sony's spec is based on anything but the rumours of what was in a Durango kit circa 2012. The difference is, Sony have announced now - the bed is made, they must lie in it. Microsoft will wait til around GDC, and announce then. We honestly don't have anything more than target specs and dev kits, and they could be playing a real game here and sold Sony a dummy.

    That is what we're seeing here, IMO: Sony took a jump to react to the MS rumours, so it looks like they did it all first to the public. Microsoft let it happen, so they can react to that and change bits here and there, then commit it to manufacture.
    That's a pretty damn risky strategy when they already have people developing on those dev kits.

    @USW

    You seem to have a passion for gaming in all forms that I simply cannot comprehend.

    Edited by King_Edward at 09:14:18 22-02-2013
  • Ultrasoundwave 22 Feb 2013 09:19:24 3,264 posts
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    @King_Edward

    Whatchoo mean?

    "The worst part is, I'll have to have the break-up sex with myself!"

  • King_Edward 22 Feb 2013 09:22:14 11,454 posts
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    You ordered a consoled 2 days after you learned it existed. That's a dedication a can't muster.
  • Ultrasoundwave 22 Feb 2013 09:25:26 3,264 posts
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    Pre-ordered, just incase it turns out to be popular.

    Havent paid a penny yet and, if it is £400, i probably wont pay at all.

    "The worst part is, I'll have to have the break-up sex with myself!"

  • Widge Moderator 22 Feb 2013 09:26:43 13,243 posts
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    King_Edward wrote:
    sanctusmortis wrote:
    I don't think for a minute that Sony's spec is based on anything but the rumours of what was in a Durango kit circa 2012. The difference is, Sony have announced now - the bed is made, they must lie in it. Microsoft will wait til around GDC, and announce then. We honestly don't have anything more than target specs and dev kits, and they could be playing a real game here and sold Sony a dummy.

    That is what we're seeing here, IMO: Sony took a jump to react to the MS rumours, so it looks like they did it all first to the public. Microsoft let it happen, so they can react to that and change bits here and there, then commit it to manufacture.
    That's a pretty damn risky strategy when they already have people developing on those dev kits.
    Indeed. It is one thing being a consumer who can shift parts around a PC as they see fit, but to suddenly change hardware makeup involving supply chains, teams of people making games for your machine, financial budgets... not so much something you can react to.

    _ _ _

    www.unpaused.co.uk - electronic noise adjective salad

  • mikew1985 22 Feb 2013 09:45:00 12,584 posts
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    In that you've pre-orded it at £400 with not very much info.

    Though I myself would be inclined to pre order one as soon as I hear

    1. If one or both of them are coming out this year.
    2. If only one is coming out - pre order that one
    3. If both are coming out, sensibly weigh up what I like and dislike about the two machines and pre order the one I hate least.

    I pretty mcuh have the money saved for one of them already anyway and I have absolutely woeful "shiny syndrome".

    The feature I like most so far is the instant on/instant suspend.

    It will be a Godsend. as you can't really do it on PC at the moment. Sleep mode in W8 is great and with an SSD, pretty much instant, but games don't really respond so well to it.
  • Psychotext 22 Feb 2013 09:54:12 53,775 posts
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    @16bitworld They're not going to double the ESRAM. That would involve a complete redesign of the chip and it's way too late in the game for that. Adding RAM is a differrent story, though it would affect the motherboard.
  • mikew1985 22 Feb 2013 09:56:04 12,584 posts
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    Blows comments in the interview on the front page are quite interesting, he says he has received no money hat for the exclusivity deal (not to sure he's being fully truthful there but anyway).

    He also says he and his team preferred the PS4 specs to what Durango is shaping up to have as well as the direction of the PS4 in comparison to (his perception) of the way MS will be positioning their next console.

    He also mentions that he doesn't have good communication with people in side MS at the moment. As such they haven't been privy to any actual concrete information about the next console. None of that is really too surprising though as he has attacked MS's approach to the indie scene and the difficulty of the submissions process for XBLA in the past, so it's quite likely he has no more information than you or I.

    His comments are still interesting coming from someone within the industry. It certainly adds ore weight to the rumoured direction MS are taking with the next xbox.

    More worrying to me though is that it's the likes of Blow and his ilk that made XBLA such a success last time around and if MS is alienating these guys to such an extent it really doesn't bode well for the direction they're going.

    Edited by mikew1985 at 09:58:48 22-02-2013
  • mcmonkeyplc 22 Feb 2013 10:04:36 39,384 posts
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    MS could do a Sony this generation become arrogant about their direction.

    Then again, they could be feeding misinformation galore everywhere.

    Or some where in-between.

    We just don't know.

    When was their last X event? 2010!

    Edited by mcmonkeyplc at 10:05:48 22-02-2013

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • sanctusmortis 22 Feb 2013 10:14:41 9,627 posts
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    Widge wrote:
    King_Edward wrote:
    sanctusmortis wrote:
    I don't think for a minute that Sony's spec is based on anything but the rumours of what was in a Durango kit circa 2012. The difference is, Sony have announced now - the bed is made, they must lie in it. Microsoft will wait til around GDC, and announce then. We honestly don't have anything more than target specs and dev kits, and they could be playing a real game here and sold Sony a dummy.

    That is what we're seeing here, IMO: Sony took a jump to react to the MS rumours, so it looks like they did it all first to the public. Microsoft let it happen, so they can react to that and change bits here and there, then commit it to manufacture.
    That's a pretty damn risky strategy when they already have people developing on those dev kits.
    Indeed. It is one thing being a consumer who can shift parts around a PC as they see fit, but to suddenly change hardware makeup involving supply chains, teams of people making games for your machine, financial budgets... not so much something you can react to.
    And it's exactly what Sony just did, swapping 4GB for 8GB. You honestly think MS can't do the same?

    We're working on old information for Durango. The first we heard of it was 28/2/12, for chrissakes. It's being kept very, very secret. The spec we're working on is from July of last year. Who knows what it is now? Early development kits are all we know. Period. I'm sure there's massive differences between the first and last dev kits for every console, and seeing as MS have now had Durango kits for TWO YEARS, I'd expect changes.

    Seriously, we know so so little still. All Sony showed were promises. They didn't show a machine because it doesn't exist yet either. They even said themselves, "we'll let MS go first". All they've done is shown work in progress, expecting MS to have more than that and show its hand. Who knows what actually will happen, though?
  • oceanmotion 22 Feb 2013 10:17:59 15,641 posts
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    It sounds like Blow is going on what the rumours are saying, nothing concrete.

    Microsoft isn't going to tell everyone, and they shouldn't need to for games to be made.

    Still think MS will be quite smart with the hardware, software and surprise people. Clever team.
  • morriss 22 Feb 2013 10:22:36 70,911 posts
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    The reveal was just a two hour apology for the PS3.However, it still told me nothing. I don't want to invest in a lofty, well-thought-out idea, I want to invest in a concrete, tangible product that has games which live up to ideas being presented.

    I'm not sure that will ever happen, however.
  • Dirtbox 22 Feb 2013 10:22:58 77,454 posts
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    sanctusmortis wrote:
    I don't think for a minute that Sony's spec is based on anything but the rumours of what was in a Durango kit circa 2012. The difference is, Sony have announced now - the bed is made, they must lie in it. Microsoft will wait til around GDC, and announce then. We honestly don't have anything more than target specs and dev kits, and they could be playing a real game here and sold Sony a dummy.

    That is what we're seeing here, IMO: Sony took a jump to react to the MS rumours, so it looks like they did it all first to the public. Microsoft let it happen, so they can react to that and change bits here and there, then commit it to manufacture.
    No, they can't.

    And that's one of the most stupid things I've read so far, even worse than vizzini's infatuation with the cell.

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  • King_Edward 22 Feb 2013 10:25:54 11,454 posts
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    I think it'll be largely the same as what was rumoured. Most of it will be set in stone already, I can't see them bumping up the RAM anymore as 8gig is certainly enough, and I'm told (I don't know shit myself, incase you hadn't guessed) there are advantages to DDR3 anyway.

    I think the two consoles will be much closer next gen than this, and the differences will be in support and features. It's here that I worry for Sony.

    Edited by King_Edward at 10:27:03 22-02-2013
  • mcmonkeyplc 22 Feb 2013 10:26:24 39,384 posts
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    Well they're (MS) not immune to being retarded.

    See the various phones they've screwed around with before Windows phone 7.

    However the Xbox team hasn't been that retarded and have some how managed to turn a profit after the original xbox money pit. Sony went full on retard mode with the PS3 after doing well with the PS1 and 2 so it's not out of the realms of reality for the Xbox team to suffer from the same fate.

    Basically no one knows...again.

    I think I should say retard one more time. Retard.

    /retard

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • mikew1985 22 Feb 2013 10:26:51 12,584 posts
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    Oh I'm still leaning toward Xbox unless MS screw it up royally.

    Stil it is not insignificant that MS have been getting this negative feedback fro the likes of Blow, Fish et al for well over 3 years and don't seem to have done much to try to mend those relationships by saying "hey look, we realise we messed up with x and y on xbox but you're a super talented developer and here's what we've done to fix it". in terms of Indie and smaller dev's Sony and Steam have been way more viable a platform than XBLA for like 3 and half years now, PSN maybe 2 or so.

    I guess I'm just a little worried as they seem to have not reacted to what the developers have been telling them for a long time. All of this on top of the fact that most of the original team of people behind the whole xbox push are no longer with the company and it just makes me edgy about what they will show.

    I still expect them to pull it out of the bag but I have some niggly doubts.
  • Dirtbox 22 Feb 2013 10:27:37 77,454 posts
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    I'm going to put money on it having ddr3 system ram and dedicated ddr5 video memory. Having unified memory like the PS4 forces a bottleneck in the CPU.

    Edited by Dirtbox at 10:27:57 22-02-2013

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  • mcmonkeyplc 22 Feb 2013 10:31:19 39,384 posts
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    I haven't paid much attention to the Durango rumours. Is it the same architecture as the xbox 360, basically is it likely to be backward compatible?

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Dirtbox 22 Feb 2013 10:33:58 77,454 posts
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    No.

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  • mikew1985 22 Feb 2013 10:34:23 12,584 posts
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    It's more likely than PS4 ever was but still far from a cert.

    If they do XBLA alone I'll be happy enough.

    I'd imagine at the very least they'll do it for some flagship titles.
  • mikew1985 22 Feb 2013 10:36:08 12,584 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    No.
    If they bothered to do it going fro xbox to xbox 360, where they reportedly had to pay a royalty to nVidia, do you not think it's likely they'll do something for the next one, even if it's just the likes of Gears, Forza and Halo?

    Edited by mikew1985 at 10:36:33 22-02-2013
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