This "Mobile" Gaming Stuff

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  • Gearskin 15 Sep 2011 21:37:16 2,045 posts
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    Some investors are pulling out of Nintendo because the company is refusing the bow to pressure and make a quick buck selling mobile games. One investor was quoted as saying "I don't think games will make a difference".

    In the games industry...

    Epic Games President, Mike Capps, has been quoted as saying "I'm more worried that you can get a really good 99 cent game that occupies you for hours and hours on end and how that impacts $60 SKUs [like Gears]."

    WTF is it with this mobile gaming malarky?

    I'm going to go off on some wild tangents right now, but I'm interested to know how people feel about this. In my opinion, people saying that Smartphones are eating into handheld gaming markets are wrong. I do not believe that the people who purchased DS consoles and PSPs on day one would ditch handhelds in favour of picking up an iPhone.

    My sister owns an iPhone. She has purchased games on it. She would never buy a handheld console. I know a load of people with iPhones, all of whom buy games for them, but none of them would buy a handheld. When I show them the 3DS, they like what they see... but they swiftly move back to Angry Birds.

    I don't think the Smartphone is a handheld gaming device. It's a phone... it just happens to play games on it. And a lot of people own phones.

    Going back to that investor quote above, there's only so many ways the comment can be interpreted. But, for me, it almost reads like "people will buy rubbish, and a lot of people have phones, so we'll make a quick buck selling cheap crap to lots of people because the games don't matter."

    I get it. The games industry is about making money. Look what happened to the developers of "Bodycount" the other day. They released one duff game so Codemasters shut them down. Boom. The game has been out, literally, two weeks. The developer is closed. Done. This is the cut-throat nature of the games industry in 2011.

    Now, Bodycount probably cost a lot of money to make and market. It's a very different story when it comes to the App Store and simular. You can make mobile games very cheaply, very quickly, you can release them at very little cost and, more than likely, you can make some money. You don't even have to make something original, you can just copy a successful template. Because, like I said above, A LOT of people own phones and... lets be honest... a lot of people aren't fussy.

    But where's it going??? Surely as more investors pump cash into this mobile gaming market, which is growing fast, it'll all just come crashing down? Surely it's not sustainable?

    You're going to have tons of developers jostling for a piece of the same pie. You're going to have your App Stores awash with quick, easy crash grab software. Not everyone can win, which means a lot of those new starters will have to shut down. Or... maybe... developers will try to pump more cash into their development, so that their games get a quality edge over the competition... but then you've got to sell your game at a higher price point and after releasing so much successful tat for 50p... will your audience be willing to pay the premium to cover your development cost?

    What do you think? I get the distinct impression that whilst the mobile gaming market is "changing", I don't see Nintendo and Sony being muscled out. They aren't entering the Arena owned by Apple. It's really the other way around. Isn't it?
  • Deleted user 15 September 2011 21:48:20
    I gave up after the secon paragraph I'm afraid. But I can add that next to the iPhone my 3DS ad DS and PSP before I sold them, seemed utterly pointless. I think you are trying to say (by I never got far) that the people who want to play angry birds don't care about spending 30 on a DS game. But you are making the mistake veryone does and assuming that all the iPhone has to offer is angry birds. It doesn't. Which makes the point kind of void. The reason iPhone gaming is such a success is because it has captured that Market AND it is making strides into the proper serious gaming arena. My second screen consists of games like zoo keeper, broken sword, final fantasy, final fantasy tactics etc.

    Together they all cost less than one DS game. Which is the only thing that matters.
  • Deleted user 15 September 2011 21:49:40
    Sorry I seem to be getting worse at typing on my phone. Can't be arsed to fix it!
  • Gearskin 15 Sep 2011 21:53:04 2,045 posts
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    Can tell you didn't read it all. Kind of makes what you said redundant.
  • Rack 15 Sep 2011 21:54:53 10 posts
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    When it comes to mobile gaming I got Hector, Dodonpachi Resurrection, Quarrel, Battleheart, Dungeon Raid, Plants vs Zombies, Zookeeper and Game Dev Story for less than half the price of a new DS game. When I'm on the go the DS doesn't even get a look in, sure I'll buy a new Advance Wars, Castlevania or Phoenix Wright but the bar is set high now.
  • ronuds 15 Sep 2011 21:56:43 21,788 posts
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    The problem for Sony and Nintendo is that there are many more options than there used to be and it's definitely going to eat into their market share. I'm sure there are many people who bought something like a PSP in the past who are more than satisfied with gaming on a phone in the present.

    I think Sony and Ninty will still be all right, but their slice of the pie is going to be a bit -- if not significantly -- smaller.
  • caligari 15 Sep 2011 21:58:33 16,986 posts
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    Mobile/handheld gaming is fun for all of five minutes - then the novelty wears off.
  • Stranded87 15 Sep 2011 22:05:40 848 posts
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    Angry Birds is never going to steal 'core' gamers away from Sony/MS/Nintendo. The only threat that I see for that market from mobile gaming is what mowgli touched on- that you can actually get games of the same quality as those on DS/PSP (in some cases the exact same games), for several pounds. While that continues to be the case mobile games will be more appealing to me.
    I don't really understand how there can be that big a gulf in pricing, is it just the digital distribution model? Are DS/PSP games rip offs? I don't know, but it seems strange and may not be sustainable in itself, but right now I think if enough 'core' gamers catch on to the fact that they can get similar experiences for a tenth of the price then mobile games could absolutely be a threat to dedicated handhelds.

    Edit: although that said, sadly it's mostly iPhone games that are a threat rather than mobile games in general, and I will never buy another iPhone.
  • ronuds 15 Sep 2011 22:10:07 21,788 posts
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    Well, it really makes you wonder how in the world people survived all those years ago when they didn't have a screen to stare at 24 hours a day. I mean, what'd they do, look at the scenery for cryin' out loud? What a boring and useless waste of time that must have been! How can anything be done w/o uninterrupted access to video games?!?!?

    :p
  • Deleted user 15 September 2011 22:12:21
    This thread would have been relevant 3 years ago.
  • caligari 15 Sep 2011 22:15:18 16,986 posts
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    Aargh. wrote:
    This thread would have been relevant 3 years ago.

    Kind of like the iPhone.
  • Gearskin 15 Sep 2011 22:15:21 2,045 posts
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    Stranded87 wrote:
    I don't really understand how there can be that big a gulf in pricing, is it just the digital distribution model? Are DS/PSP games rip offs? I don't know

    I don't know either. I always assumed that because the iOS versions are, in effect, ports of existing games, that the development cost of the port would be far less, resulting in a lower price point at retail.

    A mobile Mario game costs what? Millions to develop, market and mass produce? Big team, a lot of overheads?

    The way I view it, the more money the mobile game market makes, the more people will get involved. The only thing that will make that move worthwhile is if they can get an edge over the competition and, surely, the only way to do that is by putting more in?

    It's very early days, I think a lot of people are jumping the gun when they see how successful some have been. But it's kind of like the social networking boom. There were so many attempts to riff off the success of Facebook that failed. Surely the same riffs will fail here too.

    Aargh. wrote:
    This thread would have been relevant 3 years ago.

    Is that why Nintendo was in the news today for saying they wouldn't make phone games?
  • Deleted user 15 September 2011 22:19:41
    caligari wrote:
    Aargh. wrote:
    This thread would have been relevant 3 years ago.

    Kind of like the iPhone.

    The iPhone would've been relevant 3 years ago? Have you been drinking from Fruit's cabinet?
  • bad09 15 Sep 2011 22:24:10 5,623 posts
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    I think in the mobile gaming "handheld consoles" are becoming obselete. people just don't want to carry around a console and a phone. Before I sold it I ended up using my PSP only for really long rail journeys or the shitter, our DS is basically a newspaper replacement on the bog to.

    Is there that much excitement over Vita? Did 3DS set the world alight? No. I do think the traditional "mobile console" is over (remember we've actually had them since 1989!) a phone that hold music movies, games it just far more practical and (more importantly smaller). Sure they might survive selling to kids but the kids love their phones so it's tough to win them over.

    To be honest I think consoles in general are starting to look a bit long in the tooth and out of date (which it probably why MS is trying to intergrate 360 with PC and mobile with live). The future is standard PC/tablet/phone none of this "you need this piece of console hardware that only we make to play these games" I give traditional consoles, handheld or home, maybe one more gen before real change gets rid of them completely as we've known them up until now.
  • Deleted user 15 September 2011 22:24:57
    Gearskin wrote:
    Aargh. wrote:
    This thread would have been relevant 3 years ago.

    Is that why Nintendo was in the news today for saying they wouldn't make phone games?

    Actually yes.
  • Gearskin 15 Sep 2011 22:26:41 2,045 posts
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    Aargh. wrote:
    Gearskin wrote:
    Aargh. wrote:
    This thread would have been relevant 3 years ago.

    Is that why Nintendo was in the news today for saying they wouldn't make phone games?

    Actually yes.

    You bring a lot to the table. Your contribution is greatly appreciated by everyone else in here who actually had something to say.

    bad09 wrote:
    To be honest I think consoles in general are starting to look a bit long in the tooth and out of date (which it probably why MS is trying to intergrate 360 with PC and mobile with live). The future is standard PC/tablet/phone none of this "you need this piece of console hardware that only we make to play these games" I give traditional consoles, handheld or home, maybe one more gen before real change gets rid of them completely as we've known them up until now.

    I dunno, man. I don't think we'd ever see a paradigm shift that major. The PC/Tablet/Mobile market moves so much faster than the home console. Would the industry slow down? Sure, implement some integration between the two but home consoles are expected to last a number of years. Apple etc release a new piece of hardware every 12 months.
  • Deleted user 15 September 2011 22:28:06
    I could have stated the blindingly obvious just like every one else has the 50 times the topic has come up before if it makes you feel better :)
  • Deleted user 15 September 2011 22:30:26
    Wait, games on my phone? Fucking hell.
  • ronuds 15 Sep 2011 22:32:18 21,788 posts
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    bad09 wrote:
    Is there that much excitement over Vita?

    IMO, Sony is marketing Vita in completely the wrong way. It feels to me as though they're specifically targeting PS3 owners with Vita, which I believe is going to hurt sales. They've talked too much about using Vita in conjunction with the PS3 for me to believe that if I didn't have a PS3, I could get the most out of Vita.

    Therefore, they've already cut their potential sales down to only those who own a PS3. Obviously others will buy as well, but I think the market they're generally going for is the wrong one... or, one that is already much smaller than those the 3DS and mobile phones are after.
  • Gearskin 15 Sep 2011 22:32:56 2,045 posts
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    Aargh. wrote:
    I could have stated the blindingly obvious just like every one else has the 50 times the topic has come up before if it makes you feel better :)

    Hey I know... People have talked about it before... So we shouldn't talk about it again.

    /life
  • warlockuk 15 Sep 2011 22:39:39 19,131 posts
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    tl;dr. Mobile games have been paying my rent fulltime for 3 years and in various ways for even longer.

    The good thing is you can pick up and play on the bus, on the train, on the bog, in boring meetings etc.

    When you get home you can play your console or computer. There's a significant probability that you'll play both.

    I'm a grumpy bastard.

  • Deleted user 15 September 2011 22:45:37
    caligari wrote:
    Mobile/handheld gaming is fun for all of five minutes - then the novelty wears off.

    Precisely. Novelty shovelware.

    People cite like 3 or 4 half decent titles that have the all depth of a flash-based browser game as examples of why mobile gaming is worth a shit.
  • nickthegun 15 Sep 2011 22:48:13 58,782 posts
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    I've got sf4 on the iPhone and I play on it far, far more than the xbox version.

    Not because it's better, but because I have it on me 24/7 and can be playing it within 10 seconds of getting it out of my pocket

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    He totally called it

  • Gearskin 15 Sep 2011 22:51:33 2,045 posts
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    Technically, it can be worth a lot of shit. Millions of shit. Which is kind of depressing. But then a Gypsy just won Celebrity Big Brother. I guess everything is, ultimately, doomed.

    Have any of you guys seen Idiocracy? It's a satire from Mike Judge. There's one scene where the main guy walks into a hospital and the receptionist has a huge panel in front of her with a series of basic diagrams to show how a person might be hurt/injured/whatever. Things like an arrow pointing to the head, or wiggly lines pointing to the stomach.

    Similar to the bulky, yet simple design of an iPhone menu. Or, if you've been following, the tablet mode of Windows 8. Which can also be used a desktop.

    Scary stuff!
  • Mr-Brett 15 Sep 2011 23:10:05 12,723 posts
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    I think you're partially right, mobile games aren't completely replacing handhelds but also I agree with bad09* that people don't want to carry these bulky consoles around as well as a phone and that handhelds in general are becoming obsolete.

    They were always about occupying us for shorter periods of time or when we're away from home. Now we have phones, tablets and netbooks/affordable laptops that allow us communicate, use internet and play games as well as a number of other things.

    I've always seen handhelds as a poor compromise, they until now (arguably too late) have never had controls good enough to play proper console games or graphics that amaze, plus the games have always been too expensive. Handhelds were largely our only choice for entertaining ourselves in the previously mentioned situations, now we have all of these other options that are fighting for our time.

    Most of us already own at least a phone so we don't need a handheld, making them an expensive luxury, which given the current economy it's no wonder that they're on the decline.

    *Don't agree about home consoles going the way of the dinosaur though.

    Portable view - Never forget.

  • Deleted user 15 September 2011 23:12:06
    spudsbuckley wrote:
    caligari wrote:
    Mobile/handheld gaming is fun for all of five minutes - then the novelty wears off.

    Precisely. Novelty shovelware.

    People cite like 3 or 4 half decent titles that have the all depth of a flash-based browser game as examples of why mobile gaming is worth a shit.

    Like the Final Fantasy games that are on them?
  • coojam 15 Sep 2011 23:40:07 625 posts
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    Will mobile phones replace handheld games consoles?

    Simple answer:
    Yes, because the same experiences can be had for a fraction of the price and with better convenience.

    Will mobile phones replace the console/traditional games market?


    Simple answer:
    No, because they don't offer the same experiences or in the same environment.

    Although the mobile market will be having an effect on the traditional games market, it's not responsible for studios being shut down. All the studio closures are something that's been building up over a much longer period of time, for various reasons.
  • mal 15 Sep 2011 23:44:05 22,332 posts
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    I've been a fan of handheld consoles since the GBA - being able to play games as complex as Amiga games on them helped sell them to me. I've never carried my handhelds around with me, apart from the 3DS breifly for this streetpass stuff. I like them because they're simple - switch on, hit start, bam. They enable me to take my gaming hobby on holiday, but they never leave the hotel room when I take them.

    I've also liked how they've extended the era of classic old school gaming by many many years.

    Mobile phones simply haven't fulfilled this niche for me. Touchscreens are fine for card games, but for anything more complex I believe you need a d-pad. The d-pad was an absolutely incredible invention - theoretically they're only a solution to the problem of proper joysticks taking up too much space and being too costly to implement, but actually you can play anything you could play on a stick using a d-pad, and play it as well or better than you could on a stick. And while phones have had directional pads for over ten years now, precious few have had anything as tight and refined even as my sloppy and unrefined Jaguar pads.

    Ahh, tl;dr. A phone is a phone, and a handheld console is a handheld console. You can't make one box that does both things well.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • Mr-Brett 15 Sep 2011 23:52:21 12,723 posts
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    The point is those that handhelds have largely survived on casual sales and now those users have a phone that can play games (plus do other stuff) so they don't need to spend loads on a handheld as well. They don't care that it doesn't have a d-pad or that touch controls are very limited.

    Portable view - Never forget.

  • Raiko101 15 Sep 2011 23:56:13 6,051 posts
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    I think portable gaming is what you make it. A lot of people only want the short burst experience when on the loo or commuting. I use handhelds a lot more these days as they're a more convenient gaming option when house sharing or living with family. I don't hog the tv, but get to play something involving, like Ocarina of Time. It also means I can jump in and out of gaming more freely, as again nobody else around me is affected. I'm also not draining my phone battery, which is a little bonus.

    3DS: 4210 4002 8289 (Dave)
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