Xenosaga

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  • Freylis 17 Nov 2004 13:33:06 995 posts
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    OK, I know there are a number of threads on this subject, but they're either (a) too old, or (b) not suitable for what I wanted to ask/talk about.

    Basically, I'm around 30 hours in, have got everyone around level 24-26, and am trying to take on Big Joe. I'm using Jr. as primary attacker, with Shion behind him (for Dandyism). I've also got KOS-MOS on the side to absorb damage and chip away for 100 damage a turn with R-DRILL.

    Anyway, I reckon I have a strategy sussed out, but I wanted some advice from the forum. I have Jr. equipped with Bravesoul and Double Buster, with Last Symphony and Prelude to Battle on HI slots. Shion just heals with Medica-All and Medica-Rest, and as I said, KOS-MOS is mainly backup healer and Down Force and Down Ether to counter Joe's power-up attacks.

    My plan is basically to cast Dandyism on Jr. immediately as a safety net, then get Shion to cast Safety Level on him so he can survive on 1HP, then use a Hemlock to drop him to 1HP and power-up his Bravesoul. I can guard one turn (or use Boost 1) and have him unleash two Tech Attacks a turn for around 2500 damage.

    My first question is to ask how long Safety Level lasts (and can I recast it)? My second question is basically to see if anyone can either pick holes in my strategy, or suggest something better (like wait till you hit level 30!).

    The one thing I can think of to improve this - though I don't have the skill points to do it yet - would be to extract the skill from the Commander's Crest and equip that on Jr. so he doesn't have to Guard or have Shion boost him. Open to debate! ^_^
  • Freylis 17 Nov 2004 13:36:22 995 posts
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    tengu wrote:
    Fuck that noise! Just get Erde Kaiser(Easy to do, just check any FAQ), then come back later and finish Joe off, simple!
    I thought you couldn't use A.G.W.S. against Joe?
  • Freylis 17 Nov 2004 13:42:40 995 posts
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    tengu wrote:
    Erde Kaiser isn't an AGWS, it's a 'summon' type attack for Shion that does 9999 damage EVERY time to EVERY enemy. Kills Joe in one shot, IIRC.

    You can get it before the last 'dungeon' in the game, it involves some backtracking, but shouldn't take too long to find.

    Look on Gamefaqs.com for the exact method.
    Ah, but that's the problem. I wanted to get Joe now to use him as a summon throughout the rest of the game. I've made the mistake in the past with RPGs where I got to the last level, then went back and collected stuff I'd missed. The problem with that is it kinda defeates the point of getting new power-ups when the ones you have at the end are better. I figured this time around I'd try and get the "extras" as I went through the game.

    This may all change if Joe downs the smack on me later tonight. :)
  • Decoded 17 Nov 2004 17:02:01 4,426 posts
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    Just to bring things full circle, I didn't much like Grandia and struggled to see why everybody loves it so much. Stopped playing after 12 hours or so, the story bored me senseless.

    And both Xenosaga and Shadow Hearts are very good, but I must have missed what is so much deeper and replayable about Shadow Hearts :p
  • Freylis 17 Nov 2004 17:41:07 995 posts
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    Interestingly enough, Shadow Hearts was the game I finished a couple of weeks ago before starting Xenosaga. I had loads of fun with Shadow Hearts (really liked the dark tone), but the dialogue and voice acting let down the excellent story.

    Xenosaga on the other hand is starting to take over my dreams. The story is exceptional, as is the voice talent (apart from *SPOILER* Nephilim *SPOILER*). I also really like the battle system despite what other peeps have been saying.

    Can't say which one I prefer until I've finished Xenosaga, but so far they're about equal. I reckon I have about another RPG in me before Shadow Hearts 2 comes out in February... any thoughts? I may go for Grandia as I haven't got very far into that yet, but I'm open to suggestions.
  • Decoded 17 Nov 2004 17:59:03 4,426 posts
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    If you have a Cube I highly recommend Tales of Symphonia. For the PS2 I'd go with Star Ocean or NTSC-only Suikoden III (provided you can find it).
  • Decoded 17 Nov 2004 18:01:59 4,426 posts
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    tengu wrote:
    In comparison to Xenosaga it's deeper and more replayable, I meant.

    Like I always say, Xenosaga has NO replay value, but that first time through is one hell of a ride!

    Ah. Well, other than Final Fantasy VII there hasn't been an RPG that I've wanted to replay (and that was after a couple of years)so it's a moot point for me. I do consider it a little harsh to criticize games that provide 40-60 hours gameplay for not having replayability. But that's just me ;-)
  • Freylis 18 Nov 2004 13:00:01 995 posts
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    Decoded wrote:
    If you have a Cube I highly recommend Tales of Symphonia. For the PS2 I'd go with Star Ocean or NTSC-only Suikoden III (provided you can find it).
    Don't have ToS, but it's on my list. I also haven't got round to buying Star Ocean either, but Suikoden III is in my collection. I've been delaying it until I've finished the other two though, as I know your save game unlocks new stuff in III.

    How does everyone rate Star Ocean 2? I've heard the translation is woeful, but the game is supposed to be good. In fact, here's a little list of what I have, and what I have finished (not many, though I've started nearly all of them!).

    Arc The Lad Collection
    Arc The Lad: Twilight Of The Spirits
    Breath Of Fire III
    Breath Of Fire IV
    Breath Of Fire: Dragon Quarter
    Final Fantasy VII (finished)
    Final Fantasy VIII (finished)
    Final Fantasy IX
    Final Fantasy X
    Final Fantasy Anthology
    Final Fantasy Chronicles
    Final Fantasy Origins
    Front Mission 3
    Grandia
    Grandia II
    Grandia Xtreme
    Hoshigami: Ruining Blue Earth
    Kingdom Hearts
    Koudelka
    The Legend Of Dragoon (nearly finished!)
    Lost Kingdoms
    Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete
    Ring Of Red
    Shadow Hearts (finished)
    Shenmue
    Shenmue II
    Skies Of Arcadia
    Star Ocean: The Second Story
    Star Wars: Knights Of The Old Republic
    Suikoden II
    Suikoden III
    Tales Of Destiny II
    Threads Of Fate
    Unlimited SaGa
    Vagrant Story
    Valkyrie Profile
    Vandal Hearts
    Vandal Hearts II
    Wild ARMs 3
    Xenogears
    Xenosaga Episode I (playing now)

    I also have all manner of PC RPG's too, but I'm laying off the PC for a while so I can be sociable and at least sit with my missus whilst I'm playing games... :)

    Edited by Freylis at 13:02:26 18-11-2004
  • itamae 18 Nov 2004 13:26:12 9,883 posts
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    Freylis wrote:
    How does everyone rate Star Ocean 2? I've heard the translation is woeful, but the game is supposed to be good.

    Star Ocean 2 is... great. I'm saying that under reservations though because I know many people didn't like it, and even I was put off at first. The two main reasons for that are that the real-time combat with exceptionally stupid party members is pretty awkward until you get on with it, and that the skills system is as wacky as innovative.
    Once you learn how to live with these discrepancies it turns out to be a very likeable JRPG with lots of good ideas, tons of stuff to do and a focus on power gaming. But the best thing about the game was the homage to Iron Chef... pure class \o/
  • Freylis 18 Nov 2004 13:38:04 995 posts
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    itamae wrote:
    ...homage to Iron Chef... pure class \o/
    Sold! :)
  • itamae 14 Dec 2004 17:38:26 9,883 posts
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    *continued from the Tales of Symphonia thread which I honestly don't want to ruin*

    Decoded wrote something along the lines of:
    You must defeat Sheng Long to be controversial!
    Okay, I'll do my best. Did I mention that Xenosaga could have been a good game? Yup, all they had to do was get rid of Albedo. He is the single most annoying, ridiculous and unlikely boss I have ever seen in any game and single-handedly ruins 90% of the fun for me.
    Why oh why couldn't they go on with the Gnosis story? Consider this: the Gnosis are an evil, dimension-shifting alien race with a thirst for human blood while Albedo is a wussy good-for-nothing pretty-boy whose only redeeming feature is that he leaves you alone most of the time. Whoever came up with the idea that he would be the perfect bad guy should be led to the backyard and shot (repeatedly, just to be sure).

    To add insult to injury you not only have to fight him twice, you don't even get to kill him and he'll probably play a major role in the next game! Worst idea EVAH (okay, right after "mmh, by splitting ze atom we vil get an unlimited supply of cheap energy, which vil inevitably lead to a peazful world...").


    It is a bit boring at work right now... ;-)
  • Decoded 14 Dec 2004 17:49:09 4,426 posts
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    Ha! Brilliant :-D

    I do think you're onto something with the Gnosis, but it seems they went for the old Sephiroth bishounen angle, only they got it horribly wrong.

    Anyway, I can't remember what actually did happen. Perhaps I should play again in preparation for Episode 2, where hopefully something gets explained (at least a little more clearly for my limited intelligence to recognise)
  • itamae 14 Dec 2004 17:52:18 9,883 posts
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    tengu wrote:
    Albedo IS a bit mince, but nowhere near as bad as you make out. He's just another Sephiroth wannabe (Which I never got, as Sephiroth is shit) and doesn't really spoil the game in any way. Did you ever actually fight him though? I can't remember... I remember fighting his AGWS, but not him.
    /bows before the grand master of controversy

    Yes you have to fight him twice, once in his AGWS, and then right before the final battle. And after the battle he just laughs and runs away in true "unfair boss" style.

    Oh, and from what I hear (Spoilers perhaps?)... He has a VERY big role in Episode 2.
    Nooooooo.....!
  • itamae 14 Dec 2004 18:01:26 9,883 posts
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    Decoded wrote:
    Anyway, I can't remember what actually did happen. Perhaps I should play again in preparation for Episode 2, where hopefully something gets explained (at least a little more clearly for my limited intelligence to recognise)

    Here, let me summarise it for you.

    1. Humanity is at war with the Gnosis
    2. Humans seem to win with the aid of Realians and KOS-MOS
    3. Albedo shows up
    4. Albedo summons big-ass space station
    5. Someone destroys the Watchamacallit Foundation
    6. You go to big-ass space station to kick Albedo's backside
    7. Albedo runs away.
    8. Big-ass space station is destroyed, you win

    To be continued. Literally, I'm going home now. Let's discuss this in more detail tomorrow. ;-)
  • Decoded 14 Dec 2004 18:32:07 4,426 posts
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    Nice summary there. Still confused though :-)

    tengu wrote:
    You forgot one in between 6 and 7: Albedo camps it up and threatens a small child with his invisible knife.


    ****SPOILERS****


    Is that where he "extracts information" from Momo? Apparently that scene was toned down for the US release because it was too suggestive. Not only is he camper than Dale Winton on a spring day, he's also a bit barmy.
  • Scimarad 14 Dec 2004 18:46:11 8,548 posts
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    "5. Someone destroys the Watchamacallit Foundation"

    Not in my version he didnt! The Kukai Foundation was still alive and well at the end of EP1.

    As for Shadow Hearts - That game is one of the best examples of a great idea let down by the actual execution. Granted you spent more time PLAYING it than you did in Xenosaga but I fail to see why people like it so much. And SHII just sounds even worse...
  • Decoded 14 Dec 2004 18:55:15 4,426 posts
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    ****Yet more spoilage****


    Even the cut version was quite uncomfortable, with Momo pleading with Albedo "get out of my body". I read that Albedo cut off his own head and arm in the Japanese version, which could explain what the knife was for, oh yes.
  • itamae 15 Dec 2004 07:55:45 9,883 posts
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    Scimarad wrote:
    "5. Someone destroys the Watchamacallit Foundation"

    Not in my version he didnt! The Kukai Foundation was still alive and well at the end of EP1.

    It was? Mmh, strange, when I completed the game over the weekend I couldn't get to the Foundation no matter what. The shuttle was out of commission and there were a lot of refugees whining about the attack, so I assumed the Foundation was destroyed. The unpleasant side-effect of that was that I couldn't return to that robot factory so I had to finish the game without Earth Emperor (sorry, Erde Kaiser).

    Anyway, why the hell did Albedo call Momo "my peach" all the time? Is there something Super Mario shouldn't know about?
  • Scimarad 15 Dec 2004 18:48:03 8,548 posts
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    I think it mentions that in the online encyclopedia thing. He calls her something else that sound pretty similar but I can't remember what...

    Oh and Kukai is still around as it features in the sequel - Couldn't remember not being able to return there but I may have done all my levelling up a bit earlier than you. Proto-Merkabah definitely went on too bloody long for my liking...
  • ProfessorLesser 27 Jul 2006 10:55:05 19,356 posts
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    (Thought I'd post in the actual Xenosaga thread this time!)

    _________________________________










    RIGHT! I have had it up to here ^^^ with the fucking boss battles in this game! The combat mechanics in Xenosaga are really, really brilliant. However, the battles themselves are shit.

    How many times must I go into a boss battle and lose just because I unknowingly had exactly the wrong party members that I needed to beat it!? It's fucking ridiculous! Especially, as with the one that made me try and eat my own eyes last night, when they CHANGE all of their fucking properties half way through the battle! WHY?! Why is this?! For the love of God! I just had to turn the machine off - I was unable to do any damage against the thing. All my attacks were useless. Even X-Buster only did 70 damage on a critical hit, and F-Scythe missed!

    Further more, why are flying enemies allowed to exist? They are invariably resistant to Ether attacks (the only ones that can hit flying enemies), meaning the only thing that can actually scratch them is Jr. I wouldn't mind if I could still use physical tech attacks, but NOOOOO, the stupid game won't even allow you to press the phys attack button! I DON'T CARE IF I MISS, JUST LET ME USE THE TECH ATTACK! BLOODY HELL!

    And another thing - how am I supposed to fucking know which techs to bring into battle? Why is there no 'set Tech' command, costing you 3AP and a turn? Eh? Why is there no 'party switch' command, FFX style? That's all it would take. That would fix everything, no problem at all.

    WHY do tech attacks have near and far slots (Jr. aside)? This makes no sense. Why limit me in this respect? Why can't I set them however the fuck I like? MOMO only has TWO near techs, and you start the bloody game with them! And they're shit! ALL of her more advanced ones are far, and I can only fecking use 2 of them!

    WHY aren't skill slots/Ether 'Wt points a stat? The number of skills/ethers you can set should be upgradeable. If I want to put my time and effort into raising that stat, I should be able to. 3 skills?! Fuck off - there're far to many for '3' to be even remotely useful since you have to keep changing them all the damn time.

    Goddamnit for such an awesome game it really gets on my tits some times! >:(
  • itamae 27 Jul 2006 11:06:52 9,883 posts
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    Hah! I've had a lot of problems with the game but thankfully this wasn't one of them. :-D

    My main attacker was KOS-MOS of course. I simply put all available tech points into her R-cannon and basically used the other party members for support. For me, R-cannon is the best tech in the game; it doesn't really have any weaknesses, deals impressive damage at higher levels and the animation is quite short, which makes the later battles much more bearable.

    I'm afraid that won't help you now though...
  • ProfessorLesser 27 Jul 2006 11:20:28 19,356 posts
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    Yeah, I thought about making R-Cannon great (I liked the short animation time too - oh, and I love the way she says the name of the attack before she kills stuff :D), but I went for variety instead. KOS-MOS is a physical powerhouse now - I equipped her with the thing that increases STR ridiculously as HP decreases, and she can perform 2 tech attachs on 6 AP.

    In this way, she can do about 600 damage (critical) on a normal attack, then a further 3000 or so using R-Drill and R-Hammer :D

    None of which, of course, is any good against the flying fucker that you have to beat immediately after stomping Albedo's mech.

    I'm forced to use Jr. really. He's the only one with long range physical attacks.
  • itamae 27 Jul 2006 11:40:16 9,883 posts
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    Spreading my tech points across all attacks was what I did for the first half of the game, too. Then I realised that my techs were doing really shitty damage, even compared to regular attacks, and began focusing on one skill per character. What a difference! Jr. quickly became my second best party member because his techs absolutely destroy all opposition at higher levels, although in terms of raw firepower he's second to KOS-MOS.

    X-Buster is completely useless in my opinion. The animation is far too long and it takes gazillions of tech points to make it anywhere near as powerful as in the cutscenes where spoiler?
  • ProfessorLesser 27 Jul 2006 11:58:05 19,356 posts
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    Well, I've got X-Buster on HI, at Tech 3 (I think) so I can use it every turn, and it usually does around 400 damage to everything. Twice that if I happen to have cast Ether Limit beforehand, and even more if I've Ether Amped everything with Shion.

    With a staple party of Shion, KOS-MOS and chaos, I'm never lacking for EATK damage anyway, really. But for this battle I think I've no option but to remove KOS-MOS.

    EDIT: Oh, and that spoiler cutscene was fucking cool :D

    Edited by ProfessorLesser at 11:58:32 27-07-2006
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