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Shmups!

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  • MrVengeance 9 Jul 2011 18:46:51 135 posts
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    I have noted a lack of shmup discourse in this retro section which is odd as shoot 'em up conversations are what retro sections of forums are for! Well, its a big part of most at the very least :)

    Do we have any shooter fans on the boards or collectors? If so what are your favourites, and what era's shooters do you most enjoy? Do you prefer vert or horizontal shmups?

    (Just clarify what often arises in threads like this, run 'n guns like Conta and Metal Slug are not "shmups";).

    On a related note, Racketboy has a superb feature on the subject here - well worth a read if you ask me:

    http://www.racketboy.com/retro/shooters/2011/06/shmups-101-a-beginners-guide-to-2d-shooters.html

    Feel free to list your favourite 2D shooters or whatever as well. Whatever takes your fancy....
  • Deleted user 9 July 2011 18:49:15
    *paging Rev Stuart Campbell to the thread*

    one of few threads that I can find[/quote]
  • Dirtbox 9 Jul 2011 18:58:05 73,740 posts
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    Sigh, another list thread. But it's on my specialist subject so...

    Don-Pachi series
    ESP Ra.De. series
    Radiant Silvergun + Ik
    Gradius series
    Shanghai Alice series
    Guwange
    Dangun Feveron
    Mushihime-sama
    Under Defeat
    Progear

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  • redcrayon 9 Jul 2011 19:21:48 4,312 posts
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    R-Type for me, especially R-Type Final on the PS2. I used to play as the Radar-type (AWACS?) craft with the big disc on top, loved it. Can't believe it hasn't been updated, an XBL/PSN release of a new R-Type game with leaderboards and co-op would be grand.

    Does Bangai-o-Spirits count? Sort of a shmup-puzzler, but still really good. Lost loads of time to that. The Nanostray games are a bit underrated as well, I think.

    Retro stuff- Super SWIV, Gradius/Nemesis, St. Dragon, Agony, UN Squadron, Super Aleste and Axelay have all taken up my free time at one point or another in the late 80s/early 90s.

    Finally, I prefer horizontal scrolling, as it removes the issue of whether something is an obstacle or not. They are just a bit easier on the eye IMO. Still, Super Aleste in particular is probably the one I'd name if I had to pick a favourite.

  • Deleted user 9 July 2011 19:25:58
    R-Type, Hellfire and Gynoug were all favourites of mine back in the day.

    Tried Deathsmiles when that was released recently and that was pretty decent but these bullet-bukake type shooters are a tad beyond my reflexes these days :'(
  • Deleted user 9 July 2011 19:35:21
    Gradius V, Blazing Star and Espgaluda are my favs
  • redcrayon 9 Jul 2011 19:46:29 4,312 posts
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    Nice one Snakehips- I'd forgotten about Hellfire, think I played this in the arcade. Loved the directional shooting.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCTs2nJz8Iw
  • dutchspeededup 9 Jul 2011 19:50:08 4,131 posts
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    DB's list is excellent, but I'd like to mention Axelay on the SNES.

    Edit - I note that RedCrayon has already mentioned it. Bah, humbug.
  • Dirtbox 9 Jul 2011 19:57:39 73,740 posts
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    CrispyXUK64 wrote:
    Gradius V, Blazing Star and Espgaluda are my favs
    Still say Pulstar is better.

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  • Cadence 9 Jul 2011 20:02:46 1,527 posts
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    Ikaruga.
  • senso-ji 9 Jul 2011 20:08:06 4,572 posts
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    Battle Garegga is my personal favourite. It kicks my ass repeatedly but the music, graphics and level design are fantastic.
  • mrpon 9 Jul 2011 22:28:00 24,107 posts
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    I was a demon at Thundercross in the arcades.

    Give yourself ½ gig or a £, you're worth it.

  • Obiwanshinobi 9 Jul 2011 22:32:12 866 posts
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    The ones I play most frequently these days:

    Zanac Special Version (spiced up version of the 8-bit Zanac, shouldn't be confused with Zanac Neo)
    Sonic Wings Special
    Raiden III
    Eliminate Down
    Hyper Duel

    Plenty of other stuff worth playing out there, but recently every time I put a CRT on its side, it's Raiden III or Sonic Wings Special time.
  • MrVengeance 10 Jul 2011 01:52:23 135 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    Sigh, another list thread. But it's on my specialist subject so...

    Don-Pachi series
    ESP Ra.De. series
    Radiant Silvergun + Ik
    Gradius series
    Shanghai Alice series
    Guwange
    Dangun Feveron
    Mushihime-sama
    Under Defeat
    Progear
    *Shrugs*

    My opening post was welcoming of all kinds of shooter-related discussion, not just "lists". As you say yourself, lists are rather boring and meaningless, so why not justify your choices from above, or tell us about the first shmup that really gripped you or perhaps the first one you ever 1cc'd? As someone who deems themselves a specialist on the subject, it would be great to hear about how you got into the genre and what interesting games you've experienced over the years....
    redcrayon wrote:
    Retro stuff- Super SWIV, Gradius/Nemesis, St. Dragon, Agony, UN Squadron, Super Aleste and Axelay have all taken up my free time at one point or another in the late 80s/early 90s.
    I have yet to properly explore 16-bit shooters properly. I know its mad but there you go! I really cannot count myself as a "proper" shooter fan until I play Super Aleste on the SNES and the might Axelay. I guess I have bought other games over the years and I can't really afford to get into SNES / Mega Drive / PC Engine shmups anytime soon! Not when I've been busy buying Saturn shooter at any rate....

    Of the 16-bit shooters I do own, Super R-Type is my favourite. I know its brutally hard and has no checkpoints and lots of slowdown, but I absolutely love it. I adore the gameplay, graphics and atmosphere. I prefer it to Fina lon the PS2 as well.
  • Dirtbox 10 Jul 2011 02:08:14 73,740 posts
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    Well okay. I have a personal and long standing dislike for Raizing shooters, I think they've got pretty explosions, but the pointless medallion stuff and poxy dash shaped bullets are horribly dated. Cave are by far the king of the genre now with a couple of new games out almost every year and they've perfected the manic dot dodging to an art form. Shanghai Alice aren't far behind on that count and have practically created a new niche subgenre to the lengths at which the dots become dynamic scenery to dodge.

    The old shooters always have a place, but there have been so many refinements in the last 8 or 9 years that they've pretty loathsome to play. Gradius/Parodius, Truxton, R-Type and Pulstar are probably still the best of the old school and still worth a squirt.

    None of the 16 bit console versions of anything are really worth a fig either, they've been more than eclipsed many times over. Arcade or nothing.

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  • Rufus 10 Jul 2011 02:15:12 1,723 posts
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    Thunderforce IV
    UN Squadron
    Eco Fighters
    Project X
    Agony

    Still got a soft spot for Fantasy Zone too :)
  • Trafford 10 Jul 2011 08:27:17 4,023 posts
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    I'm really enjoying the new Galaga Legions DX. It takes me back to that small boy at the end of the pier.

    Looking at the lists above, I am Mr mainstream.
  • redcrayon 10 Jul 2011 10:16:06 4,312 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    None of the 16 bit console versions of anything are really worth a fig either, they've been more than eclipsed many times over. Arcade or nothing.
    Well, yeah. A console is never going to capture the feeling of being on your last credit, 2 stages further in than you got last time, when an absolute bastard of a boss shows up.

    But as for a 'home' version of an arcade-like experience, Super Aleste is pretty good- the weapon effects were amazing when it was released, it made most of it's peers look like the ships were using peashooters.

    Ah, Parodius. And Pop n'Twinbee. Enjoyed them too.

    I missed out on Border Down and the rest of the Dreamcast shooters though, I'd love to try them. Did you give them a go DB?
  • Dirtbox 10 Jul 2011 11:25:01 73,740 posts
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    Of course! I'd actually forgotten Border Down, but it's a brilliant side scroller. The Zero Gunners were great as well, the excellent, if frustrating Under Defeat is pretty much their spiritual successor.

    Triggerheart Exelica I never really got into, the hooking and swinging ships about thing was fairly cool, but the game had a slightly lacklustre feel to it. Castle Shikigami 2 was also pretty good, and far better than the original. Psyvariar 2 was another good one, but I didn't really gel with it. The buzz point system was quite silly. Trizeal was okay, not amazing. Chaos Field was junk.

    I didn't like Radilgy, I wrote a review for it here, it's sequel Karous was a lot better though. I don't know what it is, but when the game has you flying through space rather than strafing the ground, I prefer it massively.

    Last Hope was a bit dire really, but I reviewed it quite highly at the time. I doubt I'd ever pick it up again though.

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  • Obiwanshinobi 10 Jul 2011 16:18:20 866 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    I have a personal and long standing dislike for Raizing shooters, I think they've got pretty explosions, but the pointless medallion stuff and poxy dash shaped bullets are horribly dated.
    Mahou Daisakusen has fairly visible bullets. Sure, the ship's hitbox is bigger than in bullet hell shmups, but small hitbox coupled with slow bullets is something I dislike about bullet hell shmups in general. They don't feel like shooting games to me. Dangun Feveron is rad, though.
    redcrayon wrote:
    A console is never going to capture the feeling of being on your last credit, 2 stages further in than you got last time, when an absolute bastard of a boss shows up.

    But as for a 'home' version of an arcade-like experience, Super Aleste is pretty good- the weapon effects were amazing when it was released, it made most of it's peers look like the ships were using peashooters.
    I suck for Compile shmups great deal, but disagree about "arcade-like". They are nothing like most coin-op shooters out there. Maybe except for very primordial, infinite ones like Vulgus and Bosconian.
    The awesome weaponry to be found in Compile shmups is pretty much peerless indeed. Among coin-op shmups known to me, only Mahou Daisakusen and - to an extent - Shikigami no Shiro II come close in terms of sheer variety AND destructive power of weapons. Unfortunately, Castle Shikigami 2 is yet another underwater confetti blaster with small hitbox and slow bullets (I tried to get into it a few times and it just doesn't do the awesome for me).
    Also, there's not much stuff like Recca in the arcades, and that is a Famicom game. Omega Fighter Special is about as manic from the word go, but it came out in 1989 and hardly anybody followed UPL in that direction. Rumour has it Yagawa of Recca fame might have possibly worked on Omega Fighter Special, but it could've been Some Other Guy™ as well.
    Dirtbox wrote:
    The Zero Gunners were great as well, the excellent, if frustrating Under Defeat is pretty much their spiritual successor.
    They all apper to be spiritual successors to Sonic Wings Special played with Ka-50 Hokum (Volk). You won't discover it with autofire alone, but holding single fire down allows you to strafe (not exactly Zero Gunner way, but I can't think of any shmup earlier than Sonic Wings Special giving you such flexibility in this regard).
  • Deleted user 10 July 2011 16:24:58
    Dirtbox wrote:
    CrispyXUK64 wrote:
    Gradius V, Blazing Star and Espgaluda are my favs
    Still say Pulstar is better.
    It probably is but I really like the art and music in Blazing Star. The opening level is my favourite from any Shump.
  • Dirtbox 10 Jul 2011 17:21:12 73,740 posts
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    Obiwanshinobi wrote:
    They all apper to be spiritual successors to Sonic Wings Special played with Ka-50 Hokum (Volk). You won't discover it with autofire alone, but holding single fire down allows you to strafe (not exactly Zero Gunner way, but I can't think of any shmup earlier than Sonic Wings Special giving you such flexibility in this regard).
    Not even nearly. The Gunner games were actually inspired by the much earlier Strike series by EA of all people.

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  • Alipan 10 Jul 2011 20:59:27 744 posts
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    Mock me if you will but I think 1942 is my favourite shooter of all time - just pure uncomplicated shooting, great sfx and a perfect balance of risk and reward.

    Dont really enjoy these Japanese bullet hell style shooters - got Deathsmiles recently and it wasnt my cup of tea at all.

    Other favourites include UN Squadron, Star Soldier (Gamecube), Geometry Wars 2 and Ikaruga. Oh and Gunsmoke - does that count?
  • Dirtbox 10 Jul 2011 21:07:26 73,740 posts
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    Gunsmoke counts but Geometry Wars doesn't, that's an arena shooter.

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  • mrpon 10 Jul 2011 21:40:47 24,107 posts
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    Alipan wrote:
    Mock me if you will but I think 1942 is my favourite shooter of all time
    Yup, I could often be found around that one as well. I split my time across horiz/vertical shooters - Truxton, Raiden, Nemesis, 1942, P-47.

    Give yourself ½ gig or a £, you're worth it.

  • Dirtbox 10 Jul 2011 21:53:13 73,740 posts
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    Galaga is still pretty much the greatest of all.

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  • lucky_jim 10 Jul 2011 21:57:30 4,901 posts
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    GunHed on the PC Engine still gives me cause to fire up an emulator once in a while. I can see its flaws, but for some reason it's one of a handful of games from that era that I keep going back to.
  • Dirtbox 10 Jul 2011 22:05:18 73,740 posts
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    Gunhed was an odd one, it was basically Aleste and almost all of it was copy/pasted almost entirely years later as Super Aleste. Sound effects and all. Compile were lazy bastards.

    Come to think of it, Zanac on the Neo Geo took the formula and improved on it quite well some years after that.

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