Wii U Page 1121

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  • malloc 22 Jan 2014 16:55:08 2,300 posts
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    My only thought the alternative is too radical. That they can the console or replace it with another one imminently or exit the home console business. But will see.
  • LeoliansBro 22 Jan 2014 17:00:37 43,245 posts
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    Canning the console doesn't mean Miyamoto comes round your house, punches you in the face, then unplugs it and takes it away.

    There have been a lot of announcements following the forecast revision which concentrate on what Nintendo won't do. Hopefully the Q3 earning release and investor meeting will outline what they will do. But possibly it will be another 'please understand' placeholder.

    Can't wait to get my hands on the figures.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • malloc 22 Jan 2014 17:05:16 2,300 posts
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    Canning the console is openly admitting failure, whereas a much better message is to say it's taking longer to be successful. That said it's new water for Nintendo so anything could happen.
  • LeoliansBro 22 Jan 2014 17:07:36 43,245 posts
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    Revising the sales forecast down by 70% is openly admitting failure.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • rock27gr 22 Jan 2014 17:09:09 5,560 posts
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    Cappy wrote:
    rock27gr wrote:
    @ Cappy
    So the Wii had low attach rates, except it didn't, it had higher than the PS3, except it must be Nintendo lying and cooking the numbers! And the GC did as good/bad as the Xbox by the way. Of course it had much better 3rd party support, which the WiiU obviously won't have.
    Had, past tense. If the PS3 attach rate hadn't continued to grow it would have been in exactly the same boat as the Wii and the Wii U.

    Of course releases like Wii Play and a pack in with every unit skew the numbers. Exactly how dim are you?
    Obviously too dim if I'm trying to converse with you.

    So the Wii only sold to people for WiiSports and nothing else, and then bought ten copies of WiiPlay each so they could admire the wiimotes hanging on their Christmas trees.

    Let's also ignore that most consoles are bundled with a game or two when sold anyway, and also that other manufacturers bundle games with their peripherals(eye toy, PS Move, Kinnect, and standard pad/game bundles too).

    Of course it affects the rates, and of course they are considered sales.

    In any case, attach rates.

    Cappy wrote:
    One important piece of context that seems to get continually ignored, look at the top ten sellers on the Wii, all first party. It's an audience that makes a lot of noise about supporting games especially the niche titles that they profess to love so much but their hands only go into their pockets for Nintendo's mainstream releases.

    Nintendo platform plus Nintendo audience equals minimal third party interest.
    Top games sales.

    I see lot's of Nintendo there, they obviously only sell good due to fanboys though. Nothing to do with quality. Or lack of effort from most third parties.Wii Top 100. Which title deserved to do better but died because it was on the Wii instead of on another platform?

    Of course we could speak about titles that deserved better but didn't do good on any platform since gaming began. But let's not so that. It's all Nintendo's fault. It's Nintendo's fault that Bayonetta didn't sell on PS360, or that titles like Rayman sold so much better on PS360 than on WiiU with it's huge install base. Oh wait.

    How about No More Heroes? It certainly sold so good on the REAL gaming platforms after it was saved from the Wii shackles.

    We could go on, but no. It's obviously Nintendo and its costumers that are unfriendly to 3rd party publishers.

    All of the above of course have no bearing on the WiiU situation, except from the fact that this is a vicious circle of perpetuating myths, where publishers put no effort on their releases for Nintendo consoles, then complain when their sub-par-year-late ports and shovelware don't sell better than Nintendo's games, then stop supporting the console.

    Edited by rock27gr at 17:10:34 22-01-2014
  • neilka 22 Jan 2014 17:12:26 15,677 posts
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    Who could be mad at these corporate japesters?!?

  • Armoured_Bear 22 Jan 2014 17:25:35 10,301 posts
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    I think Nintendo all blindly plug away at the Wii U for the next few years with new pricing plans, rental, f2p etc.
    It'll take years for them to get a new platform anywhere near ready.

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  • rock27gr 22 Jan 2014 17:27:07 5,560 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    AcidSnake wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Well, if you define current WiiU owners with the subset 'people prepared to buy a console with very few games and a very limited pipeline' you could argue that 'buying Nintendo' is a Pavlovian response and you don't actually have to provide a worthwhile and long term gaming experience to them. So no problem :)
    But you wouldn't define them that way would you?
    No, I'd define them the same way as I would people who have bought a PS4 and XB One: 'those who have bought a console on trust expecting it to last them years and deliver a steady stream of games they want to play'.

    In truth I don't know what Nintendo are going to do, because there's very little sense in their strategy to date. I just started with the following:

    - these guys have been through this console release cycle many times.
    - these guys are not crazy
    - these guys want to maximise shareholder return

    ...and then tried to fit the facts into that structure, and find an explanation that works. It's very easy to say Iwata / Miyamoto etc don't know what they're doing, but they do because they've done this before (with varying degrees of success).

    The only explanation I can fit to this is that they took a dispassionate look at the WiiU in 2012 and decided it was unlikely to succeed. So they went about trimming the cost base to minimise the loss, which is why we've seen limitations in the software (voicecomms, the day one patch) and the hardware (gamepad battery, no sensor bar with the basic), why we've seen simpler platform games which take less effort to code, why we've seen multiple stories of them not supporting 3rd parties, and why the release schedule has been so slow.

    I think releasing 3D Mario, Smash Bros and MK is their 'damage control' and fan appeasement. It remains to be seen how far they take that but given they've as good as admitted to the market that the WiiU is a failure, how is the normal time I would expect to see funding pinched off.
    Why would they release it if they knew it would fail? Why not delay it and make changes to the hardware/software and give more chance to 3rd parties to get their games ready?

    They obviously miscalculated:
    - the wants of the "hardcore" gamers in relation to hardware horsepower
    - the pulling factor the gamepad would have
    - the actual support from the 3rd parties, which in the end was just a few ports of old games, just enough to keep appearances and not burn down all bridges
    - difficulty of developing software
    - abysmal marketing (so strange after the perfect Wii omarketing too)

    Day one patch was a joke, but then again, same goes for all next gen machines.

    Support stories go both ways too; one bad from DF does not negate all the good ones from indies or even the contradicting Criterion one from DF also.
  • LeoliansBro 22 Jan 2014 17:29:57 43,245 posts
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    Why would they release it when they knew it would fail? Because they'd already paid for it champ.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • nickthegun 22 Jan 2014 17:31:23 58,873 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    I think Nintendo all blindly plug away at the Wii U for the next few years with new pricing plans, rental, f2p etc.
    It'll take years for them to get a new platform anywhere near ready.
    100% right

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    He totally called it

  • rock27gr 22 Jan 2014 17:35:51 5,560 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    I wouldn't presume that 'epic ones are bubbling away quietly' at all malloc.

    And if you're 90% complete on a console with millions already spent and your latest internal analysis confirms that even if you pull out all the stops, the WiiU will fail once the PS4 and XB One come out, the only way to make best of the situation is as I outlined above.

    This isn't some strange thinking on my part, this is basic corporate strategy.
    I asked before, but I'll ask again. Even assuming they drop the WiiU soon(er), why drop support when they can keep releasing games and have some cash-flow while not alienating their fans, until they are ready to release something else? And then port over those titles?

    After all, this is what most Publishers are doing with the other consoles; release PS360 games, and upgraded versions for the Xbox1/PS4.
  • electrolite 22 Jan 2014 17:38:08 470 posts
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    @Cappy

    Yes. Clearly they're bumping it up in an official financial document for stockholders. Happens all the time.
  • rock27gr 22 Jan 2014 17:40:47 5,560 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Why would they release it when they knew it would fail? Because they'd already paid for it champ.
    So your business "sense" is to throw good money after bad. Wonderful. R&D is an ongoing process, they paid for R&D, they could have extended that R&D, pay some more, and avoid having a disaster on their hands, if, as you claim, they knew they had a turd on their hands back in 2012. I like how you keep insulting people though. Nice counter.
  • RyanDS 22 Jan 2014 17:44:11 9,065 posts
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    rock27gr wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Why would they release it when they knew it would fail? Because they'd already paid for it champ.
    So your business "sense" is to throw good money after bad. Wonderful. R&D is an ongoing process, they paid for R&D, they could have extended that R&D, pay some more, and avoid having a disaster on their hands, if, as you claim, they knew they had a turd on their hands back in 2012. I like how you keep insulting people though. Nice counter.
    That only works if you can salvage what you have rather than needing to take the entire console back to the basics. I think they knew that fixing the wii u to make it worthwhile would cost more than sending it out as is and offering it minimal support.
  • rock27gr 22 Jan 2014 17:50:55 5,560 posts
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    How is it costing more? They have to do R&D for the new console anyway. Anything salvageable would be a bonus and a time-saver, and even scrapping the whole thing as a loss would have been better, IF we accept they went into it knowing how it would turn out.
  • Armoured_Bear 22 Jan 2014 17:55:39 10,301 posts
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    This "they knew it would fail but released it anyway with minimal support" talk is the biggest pile of shit I've reading ages.

    They thought it would succeed, they're arrogant and extremely ignorant and I don't believe for a second that they envisaged how badly it would go.

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  • rock27gr 22 Jan 2014 18:04:07 5,560 posts
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    They took a chance with the Wii and it worked for them.
    They took a chance with the WiiU and it didn't.

    I wouldn't go so far as to call them ignorant, they used all their previous experience/knowledge and successes/failures in the past 30 years to decide on their strategies. It just didn't work this time, and they did make mistakes.

    Let's hope they have something interesting up their sleeve, as I can't see them surviving if they go after the exact same target as the other two, no matter how much people shout for it. The market doesn't need 3 identical consoles, and they've been there before.
  • Armoured_Bear 22 Jan 2014 18:14:00 10,301 posts
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    rock27gr wrote:
    They took a chance with the Wii and it worked for them.
    They took a chance with the WiiU and it didn't.

    I wouldn't go so far as to call them ignorant, they used all their previous experience/knowledge and successes/failures in the past 30 years to decide on their strategies. It just didn't work this time, and they did make mistakes.

    Let's hope they have something interesting up their sleeve, as I can't see them surviving if they go after the exact same target as the other two, no matter how much people shout for it. The market doesn't need 3 identical consoles, and they've been there before.
    They were arrogant and ignorant.
    They were told by everyone in the industry that the console name was poor and confusing, they thought about it and decided that they knew better.

    They were ignorant of the huge shift of the casual Wii audience to KINECT and iOs devices, they were ignorant of the "core" audience requiring most current 3rd party titles to be available.

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  • rock27gr 22 Jan 2014 18:22:17 5,560 posts
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    Agree about the name, should have been Wii 2, or WiiHD or something.

    Disagree about casual audience, they did realise, that's why they did try to go after the "core" and the 3rd parties.

    However, they also understand the need to differentiate from the big 2, which is why they came up with this strategy. Which did not work.
  • Armoured_Bear 22 Jan 2014 18:25:33 10,301 posts
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    rock27gr wrote:
    Agree about the name, should have been Wii 2, or WiiHD or something.

    Disagree about casual audience, they did realise, that's why they did try to go after the "core" and the 3rd parties.

    However, they also understand the need to differentiate from the big 2, which is why they came up with this strategy. Which did not work.
    They were going after the core but chose to discard analogue triggers, chose no ethernet port, no party chat etc. and chose to be significantly underpowered and thought that that would satisfy the "core". Complete ignorance.

    They should concentrate on differentiating themselves using GAMES, not stubbornly doing whatever the other 2 don't do and shoehorning gimmicks in.

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  • rock27gr 22 Jan 2014 18:33:46 5,560 posts
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    Do you really think they can compete in power? Taking huge losses on the hardware? Against Microsoft? For what? Marketshare and an empty bank account?

    And I like the tablet. So do most people here who have a WiiU. In my opinion it should have been even less powerful a console, if it meant coming out at a cheaper price-point and a a year earlier. This is where they went wrong IMH. Bad planning.

    They do have an issue with their western studios though; in that they have none. They had plenty of time to replace Rare/Silicon Knights and add more too. They failed. More varied Nintendo software more often would help them sustain a console on their own. Then they would be able to court key 3rd parties easier to complete their library.

    I wonder why Ubisoft are the only ones sticking along with them actually.
  • lavalant 22 Jan 2014 18:46:05 1,266 posts
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    I think they should re-launch it with a new brand and new marketing, make the gamepad an optional purchase or redesign it, I doubt they'd abandon it, almost 4 million WiiUs have been sold.

    But I can see new hardware in the very near future, one which compliments the WiiU or not, and definitely a 3DS redesign which will print a bit of money for them as usual.

    Wish they would just buy Sega though.
  • Armoured_Bear 22 Jan 2014 18:46:09 10,301 posts
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    rock27gr wrote:
    Do you really think they can compete in power? Taking huge losses on the hardware? Against Microsoft? For what? Marketshare and an empty bank account?

    And I like the tablet. So do most people here who have a WiiU. In my opinion it should have been even less powerful a console, if it meant coming out at a cheaper price-point and a a year earlier. This is where they went wrong IMH. Bad planning.

    They do have an issue with their western studios though; in that they have none. They had plenty of time to replace Rare/Silicon Knights and add more too. They failed. More varied Nintendo software more often would help them sustain a console on their own. Then they would be able to court key 3rd parties easier to complete their library.

    I wonder why Ubisoft are the only ones sticking along with them actually.
    They could easily have been reasonably close to XBone specs, the PS4 and Onesie aren't expensive to build. Nintendo are worth more and have more cash reserves than the whole of Sony, so yes it should have been close enough to get 3rd party ports for the next 5 years.

    I like the controller too, the screen is great but there has been very little essential use of it except for off TV Play. I like it but I'd rather have had more power and the platform with a chance to succeed.

    Yep, agreed on the Western studios.

    Coming out earlier? Yes but not less powerful, it would have been made even more obsolete the minute the next gen consoles arrive, shortening the lifespan hugely.

    Their priorities were wrong at so many levels, have you read the Iwata Asks on the development?
    Their main priority was to make it low-power and small, they also wanted it to be quiet then stuck a noisy little fan in it.
    Utterly retarded.

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  • rock27gr 22 Jan 2014 19:04:25 5,560 posts
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    PS4s are sold at a loss now. At 400. It would have cost even more a year ago, let alone 2 years ago.

    And they'd still be in the same situation; "Nintendo are for kids","Nintendo are for Mario only", "too expensive for a Nintendo", "our games don't sell as good on Nintendo", "Nintendo gamers only buy Nintendo games" "500 is too much I will buy it at 400, 300, 200, 150 with two AAA games thrown in" etc.

    They'd never get good enough support from 3rd parties, certainly not taking advantage of PS4-level hardware, perhaps some ports with a bit better fps, another excuse not to buy the console at a hight price.

    No, I truly believe they were right to go for less power and a differentiator, but they where a year late on the hardware and 2-3 years on the software.

    As for the fan,never hear it, but the disc drive is a different story. Same as the Wii, whisper quiet except for the disc drive.
  • lavalant 22 Jan 2014 19:21:14 1,266 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:


    Their priorities were wrong at so many levels, have you read the Iwata Asks on the development?
    Their main priority was to make it low-power and small, they also wanted it to be quiet then stuck a noisy little fan in it.
    Utterly retarded.

    I like the small form factor low-power output, it makes the console more reliable and not some beast that hogs all the space, Nintendo don't need to match the current gen specs, they can generally get more out of their hardware, Mario 3D is more impressive than any Xbone game and though the Wii- specs were a gen behind the 360 and PS3 but with titles like Skyward Sword and Galaxy you;d never know (bar the non HD) and DS/3DS specs were never going to touch the PSP/Vita but it never mattered.
  • rock27gr 22 Jan 2014 19:25:59 5,560 posts
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    It did matter. It mattered in reliability as you said. But mostly it mattered in the more affordable pricing, making the Wii/DS an easier choice to consumers, an impulse buy if you please, as a first or second or even third console.

    They lost that with the 3DS and WiiU, due to higher costs, even if both were cheaper than their competitors, they weren't cheap enough. They managed to solve this with the 3DS early enough, not the WiiU though.
  • Pinky_Floyd 22 Jan 2014 19:50:11 7,441 posts
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    If I had a choice between a more powerful console but no gamepad, I would take the gamepad.

    Otherwise we get a third console thats just the same as the others.

    Gamepad is ace, not giving mine up for a few higher res textures and some EA games that dont work.

    Nintendo are far from cool right now in the home console space, about as far as you can get actually. In fact, its way more cool to to just rubbish everything about it, mostly from people who dont own one and that carries. It carries across the net, into peoples ears and that negative perception is sticking.

    It sticks usually until someone caves and actually buys the thing then the perception also usually fades as they realise they were listening to people who really knew nothing about it, yet spoke with such authority they couldnt possibly be wrong.
  • jambii267 22 Jan 2014 19:54:39 1,364 posts
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    The gamepad is wonderful, although I'd like some choice in size!

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  • Pinky_Floyd 22 Jan 2014 19:55:22 7,441 posts
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    @jambii267 Size isnt everything. So my wife says.
  • jambii267 22 Jan 2014 19:57:13 1,364 posts
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    @Pinky_Floyd

    I'd like it to be a tad smaller. So your wife says.

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