Wii U Page 932

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  • midi82 13 Sep 2013 14:18:23 690 posts
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    The Wii U supports all past nintendo consoles apart from the Gamecube. I'm not sure if gamecube games will arrive on the VC or they will just create HD releases of the big games. Retro gaming is fairly niche, it's probably makes more financial sense for Nintendo to create HD remasters and sell them for £40 a pop than sell VC versions for quite a lot less.
  • IMadeThis 13 Sep 2013 19:12:39 1,038 posts
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    Anyone mentioned that Mario Kart 8 has been confirmed for Eurogamer Expo?
  • Raiko101 14 Sep 2013 01:58:11 6,707 posts
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    I'm not going this year. :(

    3DS: 4210 4002 8289 (Dave)
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  • Raiko101 14 Sep 2013 02:19:46 6,707 posts
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    For anyone who's still interested, Splinter Cell Blacklist, on Wii U, is going for £25 on Amazon at the moment. All versions have seen a price reduction, to be honest. I've been lazy ordering it, so the extra £15 off is alright with me!

    3DS: 4210 4002 8289 (Dave)
    Wii U: Raiko87 (Dave)
    Xbox Live: Raiko87

  • Pinky_Floyd 14 Sep 2013 07:22:09 8,330 posts
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    Great article!

    http://kotaku.com/inside-the-treehouse-the-people-who-help-make-nintendo-1301809672
  • BonzoBanana 14 Sep 2013 11:31:08 88 posts
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    @Pinky_Floyd

    I think the sticking point is that the percentage of people who would make use of genuine GC BC is pretty small, so not worth their effort.

    I would use it though!
    I was not impressed with the original wii. Despite its huge success I'd read all the info about it being basically a souped up gamecube with a motiion controller. Twilight princess looked no better on it than gamecube and if anything played better with the gamecube controller. I was seriously unimpressed and my time was taken by Xbox 360 and later ps3.

    Finally I got a wii secondhand perhaps around 2009/10 and the games I bought for it were very few. Basically it was getting used mostly for my gamecube collection of about 35 games. I still only have about 7 wii games. If the wii hadn't have had gamecube compatibility I may have waited even longer. I don't believe I am the typical wii owner obviously but for me the Gamecube was an absolutely terrific console for its day with many incredible games making good use of its capable hardware.

    I just find Nintendo's direction and decisions nowadays questionable. The hardware is just too compromised a lot of the time. Nintendo just seem to want to sell poor hardware at inflated prices nowadays.

    I still can't get my head around the wii mini. Who was that for? They could have easily have given it hdmi output and given it a single major advantage over all previous models even if in other areas it was weaker. Who made the decision to give it composite only output?

    Ultimately my point is the Gamecube was not compromised like later Nintendo hardware and this reflects in the quality of many of its games. Hence Windwaker still looks amazing on gamecube even today.

    I feel Nintendo has badly mis-judged their hardware designs recently and they really need new management at the top. There is always a compromise between performance and cost but Nintendo seem to be far too weighted towards cost.
  • Raiko101 14 Sep 2013 11:54:45 6,707 posts
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    Personally, i'm glad Nintendo offer something different. What would be the point in making a new console if it were only going to be same as the XB1 and PS4? Why not just release games on those consoles instead?

    Also how can Wind Waker still look great today, but games on more powerful Nintendo consoles look compromised?

    3DS: 4210 4002 8289 (Dave)
    Wii U: Raiko87 (Dave)
    Xbox Live: Raiko87

  • Bremenacht 14 Sep 2013 12:36:39 19,663 posts
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    Yeah, but (without wanting to kick off poo-throwing again) you need enough 'different' with enough quality to make it worthwhile. For me, Wii U doesn't offer enough of either.

    Pikmin 3 epitomises the sort of output I want from Nintendo, but it's just one game.
  • Cappy 14 Sep 2013 12:49:32 12,117 posts
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    Raiko101 wrote:
    Also how can Wind Waker still look great today, but games on more powerful Nintendo consoles look compromised?
    Design and execution. On the visual side Wind Waker was very focused, a definite end result had been decided on and achieved. Versus Twilight Princess which is inconsistent and confused, it doesn't know what it wants to be, touches of realism, mashed together with a World populated by malformed, oxycephalous blob headed people. It falls between two stools, almost as if the various characters were designed by teams in isolation from each other. Visually, Link doesn't fit with his fellow villagers for instance.

    It doesn't end there, on the animation side Wind Waker was outstanding also, there's something rather magical about the little touches, a dash of classic Disney, communicating the character of enemies via the wobble of a lower lip or their gait.

    It's one of the most frustrating things about Nintendo, you get something great that just needs a little push to reach new heights and the next game comes along and throws all the advancements out.

    Edited by Cappy at 12:50:56 14-09-2013
  • Raiko101 14 Sep 2013 13:13:14 6,707 posts
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    But that would be the result of poor game design, rather than hardware, though.

    3DS: 4210 4002 8289 (Dave)
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  • BonzoBanana 14 Sep 2013 16:40:09 88 posts
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    It's very clear the wii u is weak hardware. Looking at the average result on eurogamer's faceoff's its performing slightly worse than 360 and PS3. There may be a learning curve with wii u but its hard to see it when the cpu architecture dates back to 1997 and the GPU will be based on existing mature technology. Especially when many developers have stated how easy it is to develop for wii u. Also the main memory of wii u is low performance with less bandwidth than 360 or PS3. So its clearly in the same ballpark area allowing for the 32MB of video memory but weaker main memory.

    I see no reason to doubt that how the wii u is performing now is how it will perform in the future apart from minor improvements. It's a huge distance away from the performance of Xbox one.

    Even allowing for that Nintendo have made so little effort to enhance windwaker on wii u. I mean if its got something like 10x the cpu power of gamecube and an utterly huge increase in gpu power and memory I would expect more to be done. It seems the days of Nintendo pshing new frontiers in gaming is in the past and now they are just going to regurgitate past offerings.
  • Raiko101 14 Sep 2013 17:19:51 6,707 posts
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    Whether or not Nintendo regurgitate past offerings is an argument in itself. A console lacking power, compared to it's rivals, has nothing to do with that. If the GameCube can be home to a game that has barely aged, by today's standards, then the Wii and Wii U don't need too be any more powerful to continue that trend.

    3DS: 4210 4002 8289 (Dave)
    Wii U: Raiko87 (Dave)
    Xbox Live: Raiko87

  • Pinky_Floyd 14 Sep 2013 20:14:21 8,330 posts
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    BonzoBanana wrote:


    Even allowing for that Nintendo have made so little effort to enhance windwaker on wii u. I mean if its got something like 10x the cpu power of gamecube and an utterly huge increase in gpu power and memory I would expect more to be done.
    Its an HD upgrade, what are you expecting exactly?  As a yardstick, look at other HD re releases.  After doing so I think you will find that WW is looking as if it might join the list of better HD re releases such as Shadow Of The Colossus.

    Its had a lot of work done on it.  Textures, detail, shadowing, special effects and tweaks to the main game.  It will also now run 1080p at 60fps. 

    So little effort?  Have a look at the Silent Hill HD stuff for a true representation of that.
  • BurnoutJunkie 14 Sep 2013 20:35:10 730 posts
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    I prefer the non shiny look of the original WW. This HD gleam just looks a little weird. For me personally, seems like a little of the charm from the original has gone and been shined up by a dodgy car salesman.
  • Deleted user 14 September 2013 21:06:16
    Pinky, have you read that it's 60fps for sure?
  • Pinky_Floyd 14 Sep 2013 23:44:54 8,330 posts
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    @rumblesushi If not, a lot of sites are making a lot of assumptions.  Wont be long till we find out for definite anyway.  I believe the embargo ends on wednesday.
  • BonzoBanana 15 Sep 2013 10:41:22 88 posts
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    I guess part of my point is that 1.75GB download size which is a marginally increase on the original.

    I would have liked to have seen;

    1. A full updated 5.1 sound track to a higher quaity level.
    2. A more alive environment with more birds, creatures, fish in the sea etc. It's pretty good in the original but you mainly just get one of everything.
    3. More impressive weather and passing time effects.
    4. Bonus areas, mini games and a few extra optional bits off the main story line.
    5. 3D tv support

    Still hugely looking forward to this game.
  • Pinky_Floyd 15 Sep 2013 10:52:04 8,330 posts
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    Does have 5.1 and upgraded audio you will be pleased to hear.

    Edited by Pinky_Floyd at 10:52:53 15-09-2013
  • Cappy 15 Sep 2013 12:02:40 12,117 posts
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    It's still Midi though isn't it?
  • JiveHound 15 Sep 2013 12:34:27 2,723 posts
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    Thought so. That's going to be pretty jarring against the high def visuals.

    Should have gone whole hog then they could more easily justify full retail.

    Live: Jive Hands
    PSN: Jive_Hands

  • DFawkes 15 Sep 2013 12:49:00 24,047 posts
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    I really hope it is still the midi music, I love those catchy little tunes. Then again I've always been a fan of leaving the original music in game remakes and re-releases, as I find they're a large part of keeping the experience similar to the original. Changing that can make it feel a bit off. Kingdom Heart 1.5 re-did the music, and whilst they've generally done a good job keeping it close, there's something not quite right.

    That said, I'd have been all for them having it optional, with an orchestral soundtrack and the midi one I'd prefer. But they haven't. Not that I mind, as I think I may have got my way :)

    Edited by DFawkes at 12:49:24 15-09-2013

    Oh for goodness sake, I've caught my scrotum in my zip again - Margaret Thatcher, 1986

  • Deleted user 15 September 2013 12:51:20
    JiveHound wrote:
    Thought so. That's going to be pretty jarring against the high def visuals.

    Should have gone whole hog then they could more easily justify full retail.
    That is a pretty daft thing to say. Midi encoding of sound is comparative to an object space anti aliasing shader, it scales and improves by the fidelity of the digital synthesizer.

    You should be able to use dxdiag on your PC to prove this point to yourself by switching between the low fidelity(8bit mono one) sysnthesizer, software synthesizer and full hardware accelerated synthesizer. The difference should be quite dramatic.

    The audio quality in the synthesizer should change in quality by its modelling accuracy(fourier synthesizer iirc) of real instruments in is different acoustic conditions.
  • DFawkes 15 Sep 2013 12:57:25 24,047 posts
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    That's irrelevant though, it'll still be bleepy bloopy. I like bleepy bloopy, most others don't. It doesn't stop being bleepy bloopy just because you're running it on different hardware.

    Oh for goodness sake, I've caught my scrotum in my zip again - Margaret Thatcher, 1986

  • Deleted user 15 September 2013 13:47:18
    @DFawkes

    The sound being synthesized according to MIDI commands makes no difference, the fidelity of the reconstructed wave form increases in fidelity to match what the studio intended in the surround soundstage that is now possible.

    If you think all the significant sound in Nintendo games like Wind waker are all “bleepy, bloopy” then I don't know what else to say.
  • Pinky_Floyd 15 Sep 2013 13:57:23 8,330 posts
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    Never change, vizzini.
  • nickthegun 15 Sep 2013 13:58:31 61,302 posts
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    Its difficult to overstate just how much you talk out of your arse.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
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  • DFawkes 15 Sep 2013 13:59:24 24,047 posts
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    You could always start with "I'm sorry for thinking you thought all the significant sound in Nintendo games like Wind waker are all bleepy, bloopy when you said nothing of the sort". That'd be a good start. Then you can realise I'm objective correct because there are sounds that go bleep, and sounds that go bloop. There are also other sounds too, which is nice :)

    Of for goodness sake I've been successfully trolled again. I really can't help myself because it's so easy to prove yourself right with vizzini. He could post "The Empire State Building is a giant sausage" and I'd still feel the need to post it isn't. I'll try to quit it, honest.

    Edited by DFawkes at 14:01:46 15-09-2013

    Oh for goodness sake, I've caught my scrotum in my zip again - Margaret Thatcher, 1986

  • JiveHound 15 Sep 2013 14:05:22 2,723 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    Its difficult to overstate just how much you talk out of your arse.
    I agree. I used MIDI at college. It's a sound bank as much as anything else; they're prescribed sounds.

    You change the wave form as much as you like it's not going to change the characteristics of the timbre etc...

    What I was actually getting at was it would have been better to have real insruments.

    Live: Jive Hands
    PSN: Jive_Hands

  • Deleted user 15 September 2013 16:50:28
    JiveHound wrote:
    nickthegun wrote:
    Its difficult to overstate just how much you talk out of your arse.
    I agree. I used MIDI at college. It's a sound bank as much as anything else; they're prescribed sounds.

    You change the wave form as much as you like it's not going to change the characteristics of the timbre etc...

    What I was actually getting at was it would have been better to have real insruments.
    @JiveHound

    Well let me quote from a book I bought a few years back called Maximum MIDI: Music Applications in C++ (by Paul Messick)

    Overview (Page 13):

    In the most basic sense, MIDI is nothing more than a communication protocol. It is used to transmit information about a musical performance, but it knows nothing about the actual sounds or the notes. MIDI tell us what notes are played, and when and how. A nosiemeker, such as a synthesizer, receives the MIDI data and produces a sound in response. If the synthesizer is set to sound like a trumpet, the MIDI events cause it to make trumpet-like sounds. In this sense, MIDI is like sheet music --- it's not the sound, it's the notes.
    So basically if the MIDI data was produced by a bedroom musician and was later communicated to a synthesizer of a virtual orchestra comprised of many (virtual) Stradivarius using violinists spaced as they would in a famous auditorium then the 5.1 sound output by that synthesizer (say 24bit 96Khz stereo per instrument) won't sound like mono bleepy bloop of a megadrive violin synthesizer from back in the day.

    Edited by vizzini at 16:52:18 15-09-2013
  • JiveHound 15 Sep 2013 16:55:46 2,723 posts
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    What the hell are you blathering on about? It will still sound synthetic.

    That's the point I'm making. You put music on a DVD and you have potential for better quality if re-mastered as such as opposed to that on a CD.

    The MIDI orchestration will still sound MIDI. The characteristics of a MIDI soundtrack is still that of MIDI: clipped soundbites that sound a bit like the instrument. It won't all of a sudden have the character of something performed on the instrument its striving to emulate.

    Live: Jive Hands
    PSN: Jive_Hands

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