Wii U Page 455

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  • jellyhead 30 Jan 2013 09:53:56 24,350 posts
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    Next question. eShop cards.

    What's the situation with them and where do i get them from?

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  • Telepathic.Geometry 30 Jan 2013 09:53:57 11,261 posts
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    JuanKerr wrote: TG lives in Japan?
    Right? Who knew?

    || PSN Barrysama || NNID Barrysama ||

  • LeoliansBro 30 Jan 2013 09:59:09 43,125 posts
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    Gregolution wrote:
    Psychotext wrote:
    They can live on their cash reserves for a while, but investors are going to turn on them in a heartbeat if they think that they don't have a viable long term plan for profitability... and it's at that point where things get really nasty.
    eh? It would only get really nasty if you're a shareholder, doesn't mean much to Nintendo. Their net profit is all that matters to them, not their stock price. Its not like a stock price drives their profits it's the other way around.
    An interesting post Gregolution, however I have several follow up queries.

    1) You say that it 'doesn't mean much to Nintendo' if 'they don't have a viable long term plan for profitability' and then immediately after say 'Their net profit is all that matters to them.' These seem to be contradictory, could you explain how they do and don't care about profit?

    2) You say Nintendo don't care about their stock price. I would suggest that they do, like every other company. After all, if the price drops too low, they will be bought, most likely by Samsung.

    3) You suggest that the problems of shareholders don't 'mean much to Nintendo.' Given shareholders are the owners of the company and directly hire and fire the board members, I am wondering where this idea of a lack of concern comes from?

    4) You say their 'net profit is all that matters to them.' I would suggest that there are other things that matter to them, such as cashflow. Can you help me in understanding why Nintendo don't worry about these things?

    5) You imply that stock price falling doesn't matter, only profits and then note that profits directly influence stock price. Could you give me further details on this scenario, where stock price falls (and things turn nasty for shareholders) but Nintendo are unconcerned (because profitability is maintained)?

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Youthist 30 Jan 2013 09:59:35 10,010 posts
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    Derblington wrote:
    It was < $15, iirc.
    And that can only go down. If they can get it to break even (put a smaller gamepad battery in there!?) or just sit tight until manufacture costs come down, then it becomes all about the games surely.

    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realise half of them are stupider than that

  • Gregolution 30 Jan 2013 10:13:02 3,164 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Gregolution wrote:
    Psychotext wrote:
    They can live on their cash reserves for a while, but investors are going to turn on them in a heartbeat if they think that they don't have a viable long term plan for profitability... and it's at that point where things get really nasty.
    eh? It would only get really nasty if you're a shareholder, doesn't mean much to Nintendo. Their net profit is all that matters to them, not their stock price. Its not like a stock price drives their profits it's the other way around.
    An interesting post Gregolution, however I have several follow up queries.

    1) You say that it 'doesn't mean much to Nintendo' if 'they don't have a viable long term plan for profitability' and then immediately after say 'Their net profit is all that matters to them.' These seem to be contradictory, could you explain how they do and don't care about profit?

    2) You say Nintendo don't care about their stock price. I would suggest that they do, like every other company. After all, if the price drops too low, they will be bought, most likely by Samsung.

    3) You suggest that the problems of shareholders don't 'mean much to Nintendo.' Given shareholders are the owners of the company and directly hire and fire the board members, I am wondering where this idea of a lack of concern comes from?

    4) You say their 'net profit is all that matters to them.' I would suggest that there are other things that matter to them, such as cashflow. Can you help me in understanding why Nintendo don't worry about these things?

    5) You imply that stock price falling doesn't matter, only profits and then note that profits directly influence stock price. Could you give me further details on this scenario, where stock price falls (and things turn nasty for shareholders) but Nintendo are unconcerned (because profitability is maintained)?
    1. I didn't say it doesn't mean anything to them if they don't have a long term viable plan for profit. Where do you read that?

    2. My point was that the stock price does not affect their profits, it's the other way around. The post i was replying to was suggesting stock price falling is the worst thign that can happen. The stock price is just a reflection of their performance. They should be worried about their performance, but the stock price going down doesn't make them perform worse.

    3.What have you been smoking? Shareholders are not in charge of hiring and firing Nintendo employees. I can buy the stock tomorrow. You think I can fire Myamoto?

    4. Again, I'm referring to the comment that suggested stock price affects performance. It doesn't - it's a REFLECTION OF PERFORMANCE. You're taking my comment out of context.

    5. See above in capitals.

    Can you understand I'm replying to the implication that the stock price falling has a negative impact on the performance of a company? The performance drives the price, not vice versa. Nintendo focuses on its business, the stock price takes care of itself. If someone decides to buy millions of quids worth of nintendo stock, the price will go up. That doesn't mean Nintendo suddenly made more money - it just means that purchaser thinks Nintendo are doing well. ie: It's a reflection of their performance.
  • LeoliansBro 30 Jan 2013 10:14:05 43,125 posts
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    If you own 51% of Nintendo stock you absolutely can fire Miyamoto.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Psychotext 30 Jan 2013 10:14:57 53,764 posts
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    @Greg: Of course the share price matters to Nintendo. You do realise that Nintendo owns shares in Nintendo too right?


    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    BTW Nintendo just announced $160M net income for the 9 months so even with lacklustre initial sales they're still making a profit.
    Not quite doomed yet.
    Take a look at the figures. If they hadn't overestimated the loss from exchange value fluctuations (they put in a massive one off charge last quarter, which they partially corrected this quarter) then they wouldn't have been profitable at all. They'd have been 5.8bn JPY in the hole.

    ...and let's not for forget, that's for the absolute best quarter they have, the one that has Christmas and thanksgiving in it.

    Edited by Psychotext at 10:19:35 30-01-2013
  • Gregolution 30 Jan 2013 10:19:32 3,164 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    @Greg: Of course the share price matters to Nintendo. You do realise that Nintendo owns shared in Nintendo too right?
    Yes of course.

    Again, I'm referring to their focus being on their performance and the stock price will take care of itself. Not sure how many times I can repeat the same thing. The stock price falling does not suddenly drive the company into the ground. Very poor performance can drive the company into the ground and that will in turn cause the stock price to drop.

    I'm correcting the misguided notion that some people have that a drop in stock price directly impacts a company. ONLY if they hold a large amount of stock and were planning on selling more but that's not a common action.

    The inital float on the market is a way of generating funds yes, but it's not like they're basing their revenue on selling shares of themselves.
  • Psychotext 30 Jan 2013 10:21:18 53,764 posts
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    It's self fullfilling, yes, but my underlying point remains the same. If they don't have a long term plan for profitability then they're in deep shit.

    You can cut the arse out of the price of your console, Sony style, but you can't just sit there and absorb $5bn in losses unless you have something else to make up the difference at some point.
  • Gregolution 30 Jan 2013 10:22:31 3,164 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    If you own 51% of Nintendo stock you absolutely can fire Miyamoto.
    So that's what you meant by your quote? Yeah right.. don't be ridiculous. There's no 51% shareholder of Nintendo thats in charge of hiring and firing. It's incredibly rare for shareholders to have any impact on who is hired or fired at any given company.
  • Gregolution 30 Jan 2013 10:23:14 3,164 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    It's self fullfilling, yes, but my underlying point remains the same. If they don't have a long term plan for profitability then they're in deep shit.

    You can cut the arse out of the price of your console, Sony style, but you can't just sit there and absorb $5bn in losses unless you have something else to make up the difference at some point.
    Yeah, totally agree.
  • jellyhead 30 Jan 2013 10:23:28 24,350 posts
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    Still can't find eShop cards online anywhere :(

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  • Armoured_Bear 30 Jan 2013 11:20:58 10,232 posts
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    jellyhead wrote:
    Still can't find eShop cards online anywhere :(
    Don't you have a Credit or Debit Card?

    XBL : ecosse011172
    PSN : ecosse_011172
    NNID : armoured_bear

  • LeoliansBro 30 Jan 2013 11:23:22 43,125 posts
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    Gregolution wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    If you own 51% of Nintendo stock you absolutely can fire Miyamoto.
    So that's what you meant by your quote? Yeah right.. don't be ridiculous. There's no 51% shareholder of Nintendo thats in charge of hiring and firing. It's incredibly rare for shareholders to have any impact on who is hired or fired at any given company.
    Actually, quite the opposite, it's routine. Directors are appointed and reapponted at the AGM and require approval from a majority of shareholders. That's the only way it can happen, any other osting is either interim (pending their approval) or a non-board post made by people the shareholders chose to run their company.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • nickthegun 30 Jan 2013 11:27:28 58,782 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    jellyhead wrote:
    Still can't find eShop cards online anywhere :(
    Don't you have a Credit or Debit Card?
    Cards are usually better value. Except this being nintendo they are probably 20 for 15 worth of credit.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    He totally called it

  • LeoliansBro 30 Jan 2013 11:53:19 43,125 posts
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    One thing is clear: an underlying operating loss and profit only due to forex movement is not a sustainable business model. At all.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • RyanDS 30 Jan 2013 12:03:21 9,050 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Gregolution wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    If you own 51% of Nintendo stock you absolutely can fire Miyamoto.
    So that's what you meant by your quote? Yeah right.. don't be ridiculous. There's no 51% shareholder of Nintendo thats in charge of hiring and firing. It's incredibly rare for shareholders to have any impact on who is hired or fired at any given company.
    Actually, quite the opposite, it's routine. Directors are appointed and reapponted at the AGM and require approval from a majority of shareholders. That's the only way it can happen, any other osting is either interim (pending their approval) or a non-board post made by people the shareholders chose to run their company.
    51% is not normally enough. Most companies require a super majority.

    Edited by RyanDS at 12:03:49 30-01-2013
  • LeoliansBro 30 Jan 2013 12:04:59 43,125 posts
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    RyanDS wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Gregolution wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    If you own 51% of Nintendo stock you absolutely can fire Miyamoto.
    So that's what you meant by your quote? Yeah right.. don't be ridiculous. There's no 51% shareholder of Nintendo thats in charge of hiring and firing. It's incredibly rare for shareholders to have any impact on who is hired or fired at any given company.
    Actually, quite the opposite, it's routine. Directors are appointed and reapponted at the AGM and require approval from a majority of shareholders. That's the only way it can happen, any other osting is either interim (pending their approval) or a non-board post made by people the shareholders chose to run their company.
    51% is not normally enough. Most companies require a super majority.
    I'll admit I'm a little rusty, but when I did my exams directors were re-appointed with a straight majority.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • jellyhead 30 Jan 2013 12:29:21 24,350 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    jellyhead wrote:
    Still can't find eShop cards online anywhere :(
    Don't you have a Credit or Debit Card?
    Yup. I just try not to attach them to my online accounts until absolutely necessary. I used a prepaid card when i had XBL Gold for a year too.

    I had a response over on GAF that HMV do them instore and GAME have them online. That's my dinner hour wander sorted.

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  • Armoured_Bear 30 Jan 2013 12:37:18 10,232 posts
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    jellyhead wrote:
    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    jellyhead wrote:
    Still can't find eShop cards online anywhere :(
    Don't you have a Credit or Debit Card?
    Yup. I just try not to attach them to my online accounts until absolutely necessary. I used a prepaid card when i had XBL Gold for a year too.

    I had a response over on GAF that HMV do them instore and GAME have them online. That's my dinner hour wander sorted.
    Seems like a lot of hassle for nothing.

    XBL : ecosse011172
    PSN : ecosse_011172
    NNID : armoured_bear

  • jellyhead 30 Jan 2013 12:45:27 24,350 posts
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    Nah, it's not too bad. I've never bought eShop points before so needed a nudge. Now i know where they are available it'll be much easier in future.

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  • Gregolution 30 Jan 2013 12:56:00 3,164 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:

    Actually, quite the opposite, it's routine. Directors are appointed and reapponted at the AGM and require approval from a majority of shareholders. That's the only way it can happen, any other osting is either interim (pending their approval) or a non-board post made by people the shareholders chose to run their company.
    How far away from the point can you possibly get? We were originally discussing that they aren't worried about the stock price, they are worried about their performance - the stock price sorts itself out. The same point made a million times now is - the stock price movement doesn't change the company fundementals, the opposite is true.

    You make it sound like employees at a public company are watching google finance and at a big price drop, they await a call from a shareholder to tell them their job is gone.

    There can be AGM majority shareholder contributions to director appointments, but that's not hiring and firing. That's labelling or un labelling. They don't act as an extension to HR.

    Your original point that I disagreed with is employees at Nintendo care about the share price because they might lose their job if it drops too far. That's total bolx.

    That is not the same thing as shareholder approval being required for Director appointments at an AGM.
  • Armoured_Bear 30 Jan 2013 13:01:29 10,232 posts
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    jellyhead wrote:
    Nah, it's not too bad. I've never bought eShop points before so needed a nudge. Now i know where they are available it'll be much easier in future.
    Are you paranoid about using cards online or do you have another reason?

    XBL : ecosse011172
    PSN : ecosse_011172
    NNID : armoured_bear

  • LeoliansBro 30 Jan 2013 13:10:54 43,125 posts
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    Bottom line Gregolution - if Nintendo underperform too much, the owners can fire the board and replace them. This happens a damn sight more often than you seem to think.

    Nintendo attracts shareholders who are used to: stable earnings, profitability, large cash reserves. Can you see the problem with a business that has just taken a revenue hit, downgraded forecasts on all its key products and is using up its cash to cover the operating loss it is making?

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • jellyhead 30 Jan 2013 13:17:37 24,350 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    jellyhead wrote:
    Nah, it's not too bad. I've never bought eShop points before so needed a nudge. Now i know where they are available it'll be much easier in future.
    Are you paranoid about using cards online or do you have another reason?
    I'm just not keen on attaching my credit card details to online accounts. Not paranoid as i have attached cards for some places but it's not something i do everywhere as i have had FRAUD ACTIONS before but i'm not niteninja :)

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  • ronuds 30 Jan 2013 13:43:27 21,788 posts
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    Nintendo's best plan of action (imo) would be to give a concise message on what the Wii U is supposed to be and then move forward. I say they should forget trying to match MS and Sony with multiplats and concentrate on what makes their console different - if not avoid the comparisons altogether.

    Put everything toward more Mario and the hundred thousand different games you have featuring him, plus the other Nintendo "characters" and they'll be fine. 3rd parties will come, just not necessarily with multiplats, which have been somewhat of an embarrassment for Nintendo anyway.

    Edited by ronuds at 13:44:54 30-01-2013
  • kalel 30 Jan 2013 13:46:12 86,237 posts
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    It's supposed to be a games console.

    I don't really undertand what you mean.
  • RyanDS 30 Jan 2013 13:48:16 9,050 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    It's supposed to be a games console.
    I thought it was a new controller for the Wii?
  • ronuds 30 Jan 2013 13:48:43 21,788 posts
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    A console for whom, delivering what?

    An iPhone is a phone, but it's more than that, which is what makes it appealing to some.
  • kalel 30 Jan 2013 13:55:08 86,237 posts
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    Do you really not understand whom it's for or what it delivers? I think the ads are pretty clear.
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