Lulzsec, Anonymous and other hacker woes Page 2

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  • sport 4 Jun 2011 12:04:31 12,538 posts
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    War. War never changes.
  • TechnoHippy 4 Jun 2011 12:05:56 14,698 posts
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    You just gave me a Ron Perlman stiffy.

    My books, contests, reviews and author interviews on my blog

  • RobTheBuilder 4 Jun 2011 12:08:01 6,521 posts
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    sport wrote:
    War. War never changes.

    +1
  • Gearskin 4 Jun 2011 12:09:48 2,045 posts
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    I'm also somewhat perplexed why anyone would assume that this lot are "way ahead" of the curve or whatever.

    Perhaps when the internet turns into War Games, and Lulz Security start WW3... people will take more notice?

    Perhaps what they are doing isn't all that important? Who's to even say they are hacking into what they think they are hacking? What if it's all sitting there for that very purpose? A ruse?

    If only we weren't just a bunch of people who have no idea what we're talking about.
  • RobTheBuilder 4 Jun 2011 12:17:47 6,521 posts
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    Gearskin wrote:
    If only we weren't just a bunch of people who have no idea what we're talking about.

    *Starts dismantling the forum*
  • SYS64738 4 Jun 2011 12:19:31 1,577 posts
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    RobTheBuilder wrote:
    Gearskin wrote:
    If only we weren't just a bunch of people who have no idea what we're talking about.

    *Starts dismantling the forum*

    Digging or hacking?
  • Dirtbox 4 Jun 2011 12:20:15 77,467 posts
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    Gearskin wrote:
    I'm also somewhat perplexed why anyone would assume that this lot are "way ahead" of the curve or whatever.

    Perhaps when the internet turns into War Games, and Lulz Security start WW3... people will take more notice?

    Perhaps what they are doing isn't all that important? Who's to even say they are hacking into what they think they are hacking? What if it's all sitting there for that very purpose? A ruse?

    If only we weren't just a bunch of people who have no idea what we're talking about.
    Hacking is a serious crime, with prison time and so on, but if they simply can't catch them, it's an empty threat.

    And they can't catch them as evidenced by the complete lack of anonymous, lulzsec and the various other members belonging to the hundreds of mischief maker groups not in court right now.

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  • speedofthepuma 4 Jun 2011 12:23:10 13,266 posts
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    We will look back sadly at the freedom the Internet had in it's early days.

    I've turned off all the avatars and crap, so don't expect me to be impressed by yours.

  • sport 4 Jun 2011 12:24:27 12,538 posts
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    Billy_sastard wrote:
    Turn the internets off, I'm sick of this shit already. Hackers have been around before the internet even begun, they're just bored little shits looking for five minutes of fame, I preferred the hackers of old who did shit without the cock waving.

    Yeah I know hackers do things for the greater good, blah blah blah, just fucking do it quietly. Show a bit of decorum you basement dwelling non soap users.

    Like this guy?
  • SYS64738 4 Jun 2011 12:27:13 1,577 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    Gearskin wrote:
    I'm also somewhat perplexed why anyone would assume that this lot are "way ahead" of the curve or whatever.

    Perhaps when the internet turns into War Games, and Lulz Security start WW3... people will take more notice?

    Perhaps what they are doing isn't all that important? Who's to even say they are hacking into what they think they are hacking? What if it's all sitting there for that very purpose? A ruse?

    If only we weren't just a bunch of people who have no idea what we're talking about.
    Hacking is a serious crime, with prison time and so on, but if they simply can't catch them, it's an empty threat.

    And they can't catch them as evidenced by the complete lack of anonymous, lulzsec and the various other members belonging to the hundreds of mischief maker groups not in court right now.

    Who knows that might change now, as they're targeting government agencies *and* release the obtained data on the internet the FBI/CIA etc. might be even more willing to go after these guys.

    Edit: what I'm trying to say is they might have overstepped the line with their latest stunt. I just can't imagine that there is NO way whatsoever for a government, with the willingness to invest into the right resources, to catch the hackers if they're motivated enough to do so.
  • PearOfAnguish 4 Jun 2011 12:34:35 7,137 posts
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    mal wrote:
    What makes you say that? I've little to no idea about the state of the art in what they do, but when I first heard of that low orbit packet cannon software they were using, it was a spectacularly simple bit of kit that made no attempt to hide the source of it's packets.

    That was Anonymous, LOIC was designed to be simple and allow the masses carry out a DDoS attack. What these lulzsec people are doing, if they are to be believed, is more sophisticated.
  • Dirtbox 4 Jun 2011 12:35:11 77,467 posts
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    People have been hacking governments for years. Recently Gary McKinnon was deported to America for hacking NASA after years of legal wrangling. He wasn't even trying to hide what he was doing though, he was just dialing in with AOL or whatever and logging into their computers directly with obvious password attempts and remote desktop. It wasn't until after months of him messing about on their computers and getting more and more obvious that he was discovered.

    China try to brute force everything all the time, every minute of every day.

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  • mal 4 Jun 2011 12:35:53 22,334 posts
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    speedofthepuma wrote:

    We will look back sadly at the freedom the Internet had in it's early days.

    We already do, at times. It's the most modern of the modern world, so it can't stay the same. There are too many interested parties.

    Talking of governments taking action, I'm a bit dubious about the talk of having government sponsored identities on the internet that's going round at the moment. One of the things I've enjoyed about the internet is that, just like in real life, you can be different people in different contexts.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • Dirtbox 4 Jun 2011 12:37:18 77,467 posts
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    I fondly remember the internet before it was awash with ads.

    Although it was awash with GeoCities instead, so pound for pound it's probably a bit better.

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  • RobTheBuilder 4 Jun 2011 12:40:50 6,521 posts
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    Screwdriver...

    This one in the Digital Foundry shelf is bloody tough.
  • Dirtbox 4 Jun 2011 12:42:09 77,467 posts
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    mal wrote:
    speedofthepuma wrote:

    We will look back sadly at the freedom the Internet had in it's early days.

    We already do, at times. It's the most modern of the modern world, so it can't stay the same. There are too many interested parties.

    Talking of governments taking action, I'm a bit dubious about the talk of having government sponsored identities on the internet that's going round at the moment. One of the things I've enjoyed about the internet is that, just like in real life, you can be different people in different contexts.
    That's pretty much identical to DRM in that it only effects the honest people and only in countries that choose to adopt it.

    Honestly I can't actually think of a single way with the structure of the internet that a skilled hacker could possibly be caught out unless it's torn down and something else put in place. And at this point, with trillions of pounds in the net, that's not going to happen any time soon.

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  • SYS64738 4 Jun 2011 12:45:25 1,577 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    mal wrote:
    speedofthepuma wrote:

    We will look back sadly at the freedom the Internet had in it's early days.

    We already do, at times. It's the most modern of the modern world, so it can't stay the same. There are too many interested parties.

    Talking of governments taking action, I'm a bit dubious about the talk of having government sponsored identities on the internet that's going round at the moment. One of the things I've enjoyed about the internet is that, just like in real life, you can be different people in different contexts.
    That's pretty much identical to DRM in that it only effects the honest people and only in countries that choose to adopt it.

    Honestly I can't actually think of a single way with the structure of the internet that a skilled hacker could possibly be caught out unless it's torn down and something else put in place. And at this point, with trillions of pounds in the net, that's not going to happen any time soon.

    It's a bit like performing the perfect murder though - eventually people will make mistakes, either by getting sloppy or boasting about it - both usually due to cockiness as a result of the belief that you're better than anyone else and won't get caught. And these guys sure as fuck are cocky alright.
  • Chopsen 4 Jun 2011 12:46:45 15,713 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    Honestly I can't actually think of a single way with the structure of the internet that a skilled hacker could possibly be caught out unless it's torn down and something else put in place. And at this point, with trillions of pounds in the net, that's not going to happen any time soon.

    See, I think the very fact that so much money is tied up to how the net work is exactly why it *will* be torn down and replaced by something that can be controlled by the establishment. But now I'm repeating myself from the other day. Ah, my tinfoil hat, thank you.
  • nickthegun 4 Jun 2011 12:48:19 58,782 posts
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    But being keyboard jockies they will also be massive, massive pussies so they will make damn sure that they don't get caught and sent off to be the glory hole in some oz style mega prison.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    He totally called it

  • Dirtbox 4 Jun 2011 12:50:03 77,467 posts
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    SYS64738 wrote:
    It's a bit like performing the perfect murder though - eventually people will make mistakes, either by getting sloppy or boasting about it - both usually due to cockiness as a result of the belief that you're better than anyone else and won't get caught. And these guys sure as fuck are cocky alright.
    Yeah, as I said earlier it all rests on someone getting sloppy. But even then they're all strangers to each other and are just usernames on a screen. So even if one is caught, it's only one out of 10, 20, 100 people.

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  • mal 4 Jun 2011 12:52:40 22,334 posts
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    PearOfAnguish wrote:

    That was Anonymous, LOIC was designed to be simple and allow the masses carry out a DDoS attack. What these lulzsec people are doing, if they are to be believed, is more sophisticated.

    Well spotted. I made a bit of a mess of that post by conflating the DDoS attacks of Anonymous and the likes and the apparently more classical hacks of Lulzsec (and Anonymous' takedown of HB Gary too). Those attacks don't suffer from the same lack of subtlety that makes them stand out like a sore thumb to even the most unobservent admin, but on the other hand, the lack of volume of data to trawl through makes them less time consuming to debug if they are ever spotted.

    Routing such an attack via a non-cooperative country can make things very difficult for the 'good' guys to trace. Reportedly the Americans are more held back in this than, for example the UK - with the UK employing white-hat hackers to take down enemy communications at least where, what we call today, terrorists are concerned. Those are the sort of techniques I believe nation states need to develop.

    Damn, we need better, less loaded terms to refer to the different alliances here.

    @deebs McKinnon hasn't been extradited yet.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • Dirtbox 4 Jun 2011 12:54:19 77,467 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    Dirtbox wrote:
    Honestly I can't actually think of a single way with the structure of the internet that a skilled hacker could possibly be caught out unless it's torn down and something else put in place. And at this point, with trillions of pounds in the net, that's not going to happen any time soon.

    See, I think the very fact that so much money is tied up to how the net work is exactly why it *will* be torn down and replaced by something that can be controlled by the establishment. But now I'm repeating myself from the other day. Ah, my tinfoil hat, thank you.
    Yeah and the media corps have been actively trying to do that for the last 10 years, but with government backing it may actually happen. Still, that's a long way away yet and I've a feeling that whatever comes, it'll all be based on the existing infrastructure as it'll be too costly otherwise.

    Which means nothing changed.

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  • SYS64738 4 Jun 2011 12:54:41 1,577 posts
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    I suppose then it depends how hard they're being punished, and whether that will deter the majority, at least in the western world, of hobby hackers to maybe reconsider, unless they really do think they're the best haxxors in the world.

    You could probably compare this with terrorism, if your ideology makes you determined enough to carry on then no punishment will make a difference, but it might reduce the amount of people thinking about such acts more carefully.
  • Dirtbox 4 Jun 2011 12:57:08 77,467 posts
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    mal wrote:
    classical hacks of Lulzsec (and Anonymous' takedown of HB Gary too).
    Just to correct you on that, the HB Gary thing originated as a DDOS, which took the website down, but when it came up again, the companies email database was there for anyone to download. There was nothing classical about it, it was just a "lucky" turn of events for Anon.

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  • Dirtbox 4 Jun 2011 12:59:31 77,467 posts
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    SYS64738 wrote:
    I suppose then it depends how hard they're being punished, and whether that will deter the majority, at least in the western world, of hobby hackers to maybe reconsider, unless they really do think they're the best haxxors in the world.

    You could probably compare this with terrorism, if your ideology makes you determined enough to carry on then no punishment will make a difference, but it might reduce the amount of people thinking about such acts more carefully.
    Yeah, that's a point. The whole terrorism slant is just a method of propaganda to turn people, including would-be hackers against the idea of doing it, and dissuading people they know from doing it. Doesn't mean it'll work by any stretch, propaganda has a way of backfiring every so often.

    To quote a batman movie: Some people just want to watch the world burn.

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  • Onny 4 Jun 2011 13:17:31 5,697 posts
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    IIRC Lulzsec don't purport to be "expert" hackers - they are merely taking advantage of sloppy security (i.e, the SQL injection at Sony BMG).

    I think that with the advent of technologies like Tor, governments may now take serious steps to monitor what is happening when people access the internet. It has never been especially closely policed, but IMO with the rise of 4chan (and the "anon" mindset) there is a certain demographic of Internet users who feel like they can do what the fuck they like "for the lulz".

    Really, it's a new form of anarchy - and IMO it will result in things getting worse for everyone.

    Shame, but I guess it had to happen sooner or later.
  • Dirtbox 4 Jun 2011 13:27:07 77,467 posts
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    Hence the name Lulz Security.

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  • Onny 4 Jun 2011 13:29:46 5,697 posts
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    Their twitter is pretty amusing btw: @lulzsec
  • SYS64738 4 Jun 2011 13:31:10 1,577 posts
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    So unless they're double bluffing, by saying they're not experts should provide a higher chance that they will be caught... right?

    Edit: What about them using Twitter, is there a way for them to hide their identify?

    /knows nothing about this hacking malarkey but is very interested in the topic nevertheless
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