Windows 8 Page 29

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  • UncleLou Moderator 18 Nov 2012 02:26:27 35,800 posts
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    I see it as an experiment - they're trying to marginalise the classic desktop, and fully control the new UI. If that works well enough, the step to "AppStore certified only" is a small one. Yeah, that's speculation at this point, but they're certainly trying to establish that as at least an option in the long run if they think it makes sense. Seeing how Windows sales have been dwindling for years, it makes sense for them to ask a few basic questions.
  • Dirtbox 18 Nov 2012 02:54:16 78,875 posts
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    Dwindling? Windows 8 hasn't done well so far, but 7 and XP broke records.

    +1 / Like / Tweet this post

  • Deleted user 18 November 2012 03:02:28
    It's a small step that just won't happen for the desktop. For one thing it'll kill them in the corporate environment.

    I can understand why people are annoyed with the change, and even people who are annoyed that the desktop and Metro don't necessarily mesh that well together when it comes to shortcuts and whatnot, but I will actually eat my laptop if they do a "only appstore things will run" with the desktop OS in the future.

    I agree that it's an experiment, but I think it's more a UI experiment than a distribution based one. Win 8 is an absolutely colossal change to the UI, probably the biggest since the 3.1-95 change. But I absolutely don't think they'll fully wall garden it. If they drop the desktop as a UI, I guarantee there'll be sideloading and legacy support (probably by launching things in individual shell sessions - think the Linux "multiple desktop" thing, only without the Start Menu etc on each one. Close the app, it closes the session. To be honest I'm surprised such an option isn't present in 8 anyway).
  • L0cky 18 Nov 2012 03:25:39 1,552 posts
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    If 90% of users are quite happy with the Metro UI and find the marketplace is a lot easier for them then it is going to hurt developers.

    It's all well and good saying you can still use the desktop, but what if most users simply don't want to?

    Most people aren't technical; they don't think about this stuff. They'll get Windows 8 as an OEM with their new pc or laptop and just do whatever is easiest.

    If the Marketplace hits critical mass as MS hopes, why google for an app when there's a good system right there?

    I think that's why they removed the Start Menu from the desktop; to keep users going back to Metro, and thus the Marketplace.
  • RobTheBuilder 18 Nov 2012 03:31:14 6,521 posts
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    Funny, all the tech geeks I know always say they prefer Microsoft because it is open and unrestricted. Will be interesting indeed to see the backlash if this changes.
  • Deleted user 18 November 2012 03:37:14
    I'm not sure I understand the argument there. If 90% of users are happy not using the desktop, then it represents a consumer shift that actually works. Valve et al would be better off targeting said theoretical 90% of users, because ultimately they're all in it to make money. The remaining 10% have probably already voted with their wallets. The vast majority of devs are not some altruistic creators in it to craft art, they're in it to sell to as many people as possible.

    "doing whatever's easiest" has been Apple's catchphrase for the past decade or so, and every man and their dog are copying the fuck out of them. Remember "it just works"? If it sells, that's what people do.

    And this all considering that I still don't think the desktop (or at least, non-appstore apps) will disappear from the consumer PC anytime soon.
  • Deleted user 18 November 2012 03:38:08
    It'll create zero backlash. The only apps that are tied down are the metro ones and frankly who gives a shit.

    It's a half arsed tablet OS that after heavy finagling becomes actually quite nice and has a usable Windows desktop one key away.

    Edited by Boab at 03:38:31 18-11-2012
  • UncleLou Moderator 18 Nov 2012 09:10:27 35,800 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    Dwindling? Windows 8 hasn't done well so far, but 7 and XP broke records.
    XP was long ago - the Windows division has been Microsoft's problem child for a few years now, it's their only division that shrinks. The revenue is in decline quarter after quarter.
  • sport 18 Nov 2012 09:22:25 12,798 posts
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    Are we all moving to Macs lads? I don't want to be left behind?
  • monkehhh 18 Nov 2012 09:42:12 3,477 posts
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    Macc Lads?

    Windows 8 seems fine here, though I'm using the Metro part just for the pretty tiles - everything useful happens in the desktop.

    It would be a weird one for a corporate environment, but thankfully we're still on XP..
  • Spectral 18 Nov 2012 10:53:25 5,017 posts
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    Anyone having problems with wireless 360 pads? Sometimes windows makes the detected new hardware chime every few minutes while the pad is turned on. It doesn't interfere with the pad working but is very annoying. Going to disable the audio device it has in the pad for headset use and see if that stops it.
  • chopsen 18 Nov 2012 12:04:18 16,219 posts
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    If they wanted people to adopt a new UI, they should have not had the normal desktop exist as a weird parellel environment along side metro, and designed something that seamlessly incorporated Retro software. Bit like the start menu in 95 handled 3.1 program groups. The way its been done is a shambles. Totally confusing. It's potentially quite a nice interface, if theyd done it proper ly
  • Maturin 18 Nov 2012 12:08:17 3,158 posts
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    Spectral wrote:
    Anyone having problems with wireless 360 pads? Sometimes windows makes the detected new hardware chime every few minutes while the pad is turned on. It doesn't interfere with the pad working but is very annoying. Going to disable the audio device it has in the pad for headset use and see if that stops it.
    I've not had that problem. But I'm not using the headset with it.
  • mcmonkeyplc 18 Nov 2012 12:21:35 39,521 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    If they wanted people to adopt a new UI, they should have not had the normal desktop exist as a weird parellel environment along side metro, and designed something that seamlessly incorporated Retro software. Bit like the start menu in 95 handled 3.1 program groups. The way its been done is a shambles. Totally confusing. It's potentially quite a nice interface, if theyd done it proper ly
    Small steps.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Spectral 18 Nov 2012 12:46:37 5,017 posts
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    @Maturin I'm not using an headset either. But it popped up in skype saying new audio device found when I turned the pad on. So wondering if its the headset detection playing up. So disabled it in device manager and I'll see if it helps. I've been using the wireless pad for a couple of years now and this has only started happening since I started using windows 8.
  • L0cky 18 Nov 2012 12:47:17 1,552 posts
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    meme wrote:
    I'm not sure I understand the argument there. If 90% of users are happy not using the desktop, then it represents a consumer shift that actually works.
    I agree.

    meme wrote:Valve et al would be better off targeting said theoretical 90% of users, because ultimately they're all in it to make money.
    In which case their point stands. In order to target that 90% they have to capitulate to MS' certification process. That's their issue; not the centralised marketplace by itself.
  • UncleLou Moderator 18 Nov 2012 13:22:24 35,800 posts
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    @L0cky I agree. And that's not just Valve's problem. With Microsoft's somewhat oscillating stance lately on 18+ rated games (or their publishing policy in Germany, for that matter), I don't really want them to meddle too much.
  • Iain815 18 Nov 2012 16:29:04 437 posts
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    meme wrote:
    Welp, I've switched back to Win 7 now. I like Win 8, but the programs I use most are split between Metro and desktop, and it started to feel like I was using two different OSes. I'll switch back to 8 eventually, when more apps and things migrate over and I no longer need to excessively switch between desktop and Metro, and when some of the minor annoyances have been ironed out.
    I've decided I'm going to do this as well. I like 8's new features, but I've rarely touched a single metro app since the first few weeks, apart from the mail app, which is a bit shit. I'm constantly on the desktop and digging through folders. Also had a bit of connectivity problems too.

    Using my mum's laptop makes me realise how much I miss Aero Glass. It so much easier on the eyes.
  • Deleted user 18 November 2012 16:40:56
    meme wrote:
    And this all considering that I still don't think the desktop (or at least, non-appstore apps) will disappear from the consumer PC anytime soon.
    If there was any chance of it disappearing then I know of at least one massive company that would switch away from it, it's already being considered on their long term plan. The corporate world would have no interest in using a system that is so locked down - they would be unable to use their own applications without getting them certified. There are also a number of potential security issues that would be introduced by such a procedure that all governments and defence industries would have to look elsewhere.

    I know why Microsoft want to copy Apple but they would have to choose to give up on a core market that enables a lot of their other revenues.
  • tincanrocket 19 Nov 2012 11:15:30 3,029 posts
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    Erm, is it true that the Windows 8 Apps include advertising? Read about this 'feature' on a technology blog, but have yet to install W8 myself. Apps mentioned included the Music and Weather apps. Bad form if this is true.

    Also, this comment on said blog was quite amusing/close to the truth:

    Is it possible that Ballmer is shorting the stock? or is he just THAT incompetent as a CEO? I know Forbes labeled him worst CEO but I didn't think he was also the most retarded, the kind of shit he's been pulling lately frankly reminds me of the PHB from Dilbert, in fact if you'd have told me about turning the desktop into a giant cell phone, pushing ads onto the paid version, and trying to force touch to be the primary interface when less than 4% of the desktops that ship NOW have touch, much less the hundreds of millions of laptops and desktops MSFT wants to upgrade? i would have honestly thought you were simply ripping off a Dilbert strip.

    I mean Good God, look at the man's "accomplishments" during his tenure, rushing the X360 out with a 2 billion dollar flaw, spending 8.5 billion of Skype thus making sure the carriers treat WinPhone like an STD wrapped in AIDS infected needles, Zune, Kin, killing PlaysForSure and soon Windows Messenger, Windows 8 forcing desktops to have a cellphone UI...its a fucking trainwreck over there, he is making the reign of the Pepsi guy at Apple look good by comparison.

    If the board doesn't get his fat sweaty clueless ass out of the big chair in the next year and a half i could see them becoming another RIM, a company only holding onto legacy markets while the rest of the world forgets they even existed. Hell the ONLY things that are saving his ass on the desktop is that Apple has no desire to own the low end and the Linux devs won't quit futzing with critical subsystems long enough for it to become stable, otherwise they might be in trouble even there.

    I know I've been hearing from a LOT of customers lately just to make sure i could still get Win 7, nobody wants that damned Win 8 and after 2 billion in ads they sold just 4 million copies...that's $500 for every $40 sale. talk about a waste of advertising money! As a retailer I'm just glad Win 7 is good until 2020 and is solid as a rock...
  • kingcrowbar 19 Nov 2012 16:47:02 920 posts
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    It's probably me being stupid but I can't seem to figure out how to let my kids use apps in their local (offline) accounts that I have downloaded with my online account.

    I had pressumed it would work like the Xbox where they can just use any game I've downloaded on that machine but apparently not.
  • rudedudejude 19 Nov 2012 20:56:18 2,242 posts
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    Ugh..been working with this for 2 days and its quite awful. Bad style over substance means most things take twice as long to do as in win7, it's just not pleasant or intuitive to use.
  • mcmonkeyplc 19 Nov 2012 21:04:30 39,521 posts
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    Free apps have ads!

    SHOCK HORROR.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • L0cky 19 Nov 2012 21:55:09 1,552 posts
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    Free? Where did you get your free copy of Windows 8 pray tell?
  • Deleted user 19 November 2012 21:58:57
    He means the apps. The apps with ads are free, and the ads are only in non-essential stuff like News and Sports that come pre-installed, and can be uninstalled and replaced with something else in like, three mouse clicks. The actual OS itself and productivity apps like Calendar and Mail have no ads at all.
  • L0cky 19 Nov 2012 22:00:35 1,552 posts
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    Still not free.
  • Deleted user 19 November 2012 22:02:10
    By that logic everything free on the app store isn't "free" because you have to buy the OS to access them.
  • L0cky 19 Nov 2012 22:08:42 1,552 posts
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    If it's an advertised feature of the OS and is made by Microsoft then no, it's not free.
  • oceanmotion 19 Nov 2012 22:09:51 16,093 posts
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    Been playing around with it the last few weeks and I'm not too fond of it. Feels like two OS's crammed together and when your in the old windows, nice then suddenly, you do something and back to Modern UI for some basic function. I don't really mind the start menu or the app store, expected these days, just wish it was one or the other, not creeping into the desktop UI.
  • Deleted user 19 November 2012 22:14:07
    L0cky wrote:
    If it's an advertised feature of the OS and is made by Microsoft then no, it's not free.
    Bundled Stock and News apps aren't a feature of the OS. Nor have they been advertised as such. Hence why you can remove them in two short mouse clicks. In fact, the only apps that are mentioned on the webpage as "built-in" (ie the only ones approximating an "advertised feature" ) are the ones without ads.

    For the $15 Windows 8 cost me, I honestly couldn't give a fuck about them displaying an ad if I scroll all the way to the right in the stock-checking app I don't use.

    Edited by meme at 22:14:19 19-11-2012
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