A Thread of Ice and Fire Page 4

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  • Dougs 30 Mar 2012 09:49:27 68,524 posts
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    Bump - to try and keep the TV series thread free of spoilers!
  • Mr-Brett 30 Mar 2012 10:35:29 12,835 posts
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    I changed the title, I didn't like the TV comparison bit*

    *true story

    Level 37 Social Justice Warrior

  • mcmonkeyplc 30 Mar 2012 10:40:45 39,469 posts
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    Book 1 great
    Book 2 Good
    Book 3 Awesome
    Book 4 What the fuck is this?!
    Book 5 It took you THAT long to say that?! 400 pages out of 1000 worth reading.

    Feast for Crows and most of Dance with Dragons seriously damaged my love of the serious it's meandering WAY to much but he seems to have realised this in the last third of Dance with Dragons. The fuck wit better not go off on another tangent.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Scimarad 30 Mar 2012 12:16:47 8,573 posts
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    I have to agree; What is it about certain fantasy authors that feel the have to meander all over the place?

    I'm a Stephen King fan and I enjoy the way he can waffle on about anything while keeping me interested in all the ordinary stuff. Something about the last two of Martin's Ice and Fire series constantly had me checking how far I was from the end, though. Maybe it's the difference between having a good story and being a good storyteller or something...
  • Nanocrystal 30 Mar 2012 12:54:41 1,087 posts
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    I could have forgiven ADwD for being so ponderous if all the narratives had actually come to a decent climax, but the book seemed to abruptly stop just before the shit hit the fan. I've heard that this was at the suggestion of GRRM's publisher.
  • nickthegun 30 Mar 2012 13:06:19 60,615 posts
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    Scimarad wrote:
    I have to agree; What is it about certain fantasy authors that feel the have to meander all over the place?
    The bigger you get, the less you are edited. See also: harry potter

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • shamblemonkee 10 Apr 2012 09:33:50 14,494 posts
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    I imagined Asha would be a bit prettier / less pudgy than she is i nthe TV series. Doesn't look like a woman who leads.
  • LeoliansBro 10 Apr 2012 09:48:21 44,552 posts
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    As I've said elsewhere, I love the world, I love the characters, and as a result I feel cheated by the lack of narratorial drive, direction or coherence. Nothing ties up, things either end abruptly or expand, complicate and diffuse.

    It's the literary fantasy Ponzi scheme.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Dougs 10 Apr 2012 09:49:30 68,524 posts
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    True that.
  • Mekanik 10 Apr 2012 09:53:18 3,619 posts
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    Loved these books. Need to pick up the latest one.

    Managed to read them all (at work when not busy offshore...) in the space of a month or so. Best way to read a series.

    Now if only he could write the remaining ones at the same pace i would be happy.
  • mcmonkeyplc 10 Apr 2012 10:04:55 39,469 posts
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    shamblemonkee wrote:
    I imagined Asha would be a bit prettier / less pudgy than she is i nthe TV series. Doesn't look like a woman who leads.
    Agreed 100%

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • LeoliansBro 10 Apr 2012 10:08:34 44,552 posts
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    Re making these into TV, they should have grown a pair and dropped the Dothraki dicking about from the start. Just leave it as a vague background threat to sovereignity and concentrate on the central tussle for power.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • nickthegun 10 Apr 2012 10:15:29 60,615 posts
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    They more or less have. She gets like one scene per episode, which is plenty.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • mcmonkeyplc 10 Apr 2012 10:15:32 39,469 posts
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    That vague background threat becomes the entire point of the series...at least I hope that's where the meandering wanker is leading too.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • LeoliansBro 10 Apr 2012 10:22:23 44,552 posts
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    Bless for thinking there's a point to the series.

    Dany's already been gazumped by her legit brother, so why do we care about her Arabian Nights subplot? And no his continued existence and indeed survival isn't a 'well worked and foreshadowed shock-reveal', it's a 'hasty and clunky introduction to give Tyrion some importance and symptomatic of GRRM's character-incontinence'.

    She shouldn't even have one scene, she should be offscreen, mentioned in a throwaway fashion every couple of episodes, and then used as a big reveal end of season whatever. You can fill in the relevant bits of her backstory with ten second exposition flashbacks from there as appropriate.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Salaman 10 Apr 2012 10:22:37 19,312 posts
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    I completely forgot that last November I ordered a bunch of books from Play.com using vouchers I got from my colleagues when I left my last job 2 years ago. The vouchers were in pounds and needed a UK delivery address.
    Arrived at my friend's this Thursday past, whilst on vacation in the UK, and there was a bunch of Play packages waiting for me. No clue anymore what I bought last November. So well pleased the Dance with Dragons pt1&pt2 books were in it.

    Struggling a bit to get back into the story (not the books themselves). I read the initial set of books in September-October, so at the start of every chapter there was a "wait, who was this again?" or a "hmm, what did this one do to end up here again?" moment.

    I'm nearly half way through part 1 now and once more my inner monologue has turned into very RR Martinesque.

    Catching up on the first 2 episodes of season 2 tonight as well. \0/
  • Deleted user 10 April 2012 10:30:59
    I have a theory that fantasy authors should stick to trilogies. Any longer than that and there are always problems with bloat and pacing. Robert Jordan had the same problems as Martin has now.
  • mcmonkeyplc 10 Apr 2012 10:32:01 39,469 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Bless for thinking there's a point to the series.

    Dany's already been gazumped by her legit brother, so why do we care about her Arabian Nights subplot? And no his continued existence and indeed survival isn't a 'well worked and foreshadowed shock-reveal', it's a 'hasty and clunky introduction to give Tyrion some importance and symptomatic of GRRM's character-incontinence'.

    She shouldn't even have one scene, she should be offscreen, mentioned in a throwaway fashion every couple of episodes, and then used as a big reveal end of season whatever. You can fill in the relevant bits of her backstory with ten second exposition flashbacks from there as appropriate.
    The bit in the spoilers there is just another meandering side story. If she doesn't reach westeros he can go fucking die now. I'll finish the story.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • LeoliansBro 10 Apr 2012 10:32:57 44,552 posts
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    Anyone who goes on a long voyage becomes essentially pointless.

    Almost everyone who goes on a long journey as well.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • mcmonkeyplc 10 Apr 2012 10:41:23 39,469 posts
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    Something has to tie in all the way. They can't all just wither away and die...actually they can and I can see the cock sucker actually doing that.

    That'd would be one epically shit ending.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • LeoliansBro 10 Apr 2012 10:43:59 44,552 posts
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    GRRM's been asked when the series will end. He said (paraphrasing) 'when everyone's dead and everything is destroyed'.

    With the help of a world class editor he could finish this in two books, before he dies of old age. Seriously.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • shamblemonkee 10 Apr 2012 10:44:57 14,494 posts
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    Just so long as he doesn't do another book 4 and introduce a whole other heap of people just to sttring it out while leaving the main points hanging.
  • mcmonkeyplc 10 Apr 2012 10:55:07 39,469 posts
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    Well there are only 2 books left apparently. I should've stopped reading after the red wedding and imagined the comet hitting westeros as punishment for mankind from the tree gods.

    Would probably be better than the bullshit that awaits.

    I hope HBO have writters working in parallel to GRRM otherwise I fear the awesome TV series will experience the same fate as the books.

    Edited by mcmonkeyplc at 10:56:41 10-04-2012

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • LeoliansBro 10 Apr 2012 11:15:55 44,552 posts
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    Really don't click these spoilers unless you've read the books.

    He's killed off characters thematically essential to the plot (Rob, Jon Snow, the red viper chap), maintained irrelevant characters (Sansa, Theon/Reek), he's stranded useful characters in their own narrative arc far too large to be successfully resolved (Bran, Arya, Tyrion), he's heavily hinted at peripheral affairs which are never followed up on (that Oldtown business, the Varys/chap who brokered Dany's marriage relationship, the castle made of dragons, the cocking ICE ZOMBIES FFS) he's shown preference for non-events rather than resolution (Melisande's influence not getting her faction anywhere), he's brought in stories which need their own books and otherwise have no place in the narrative (the smuggler, hell even Littlefinger), he's made characters sympathetic when he shouldn't (Lannister Queen's walk of shame) and callous when they shouldn't (Arya's coin list of people to assassinate), and he has a whole fucking menagerie of additional sideplots with a supporting cast of millions, none of which matter, none of which go anywhere and none of which do anything apart from slow the story down further.

    In short, fuck it.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • LeoliansBro 10 Apr 2012 11:20:29 44,552 posts
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    Oh yeah, Winter is Coming. Which lasts decades. If he doesn't end these with the Thaw and the coming of spring, it's a massive thematic bum note as well as leaving some things (food shortage) impossible to resolve.

    If he does, good luck fitting that into two books, given the first five/six covered 18 months or so.

    Edited by LeoliansBro at 11:45:18 10-04-2012

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • nickthegun 10 Apr 2012 11:24:04 60,615 posts
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    I have to say, one of the reasons I stopped at book 3. Im not a fan of things that are relentlessly bleak (the reason why I stopped reading the walking dead) so with no resolution in sight and the main cast who I had grown attached to largely dead, i just thought 'fuck it'.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • jakuande 10 Apr 2012 12:36:49 192 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    the main cast who I had grown attached to largely dead, i just thought 'fuck it'.
    Fair point, its all fine and well killing off so many main characters that your reader never knows who will make it through the series, it creates a certain amount of tension. But... there's a reason why this doesn't normally happen (or at least not to the same degree as it does here!) Readers are invested in the characters and if all their favourites get killed or sidelined then what reason do they have for continuing with the story?

    Edited by jakuande at 12:37:19 10-04-2012
  • nickthegun 10 Apr 2012 12:44:06 60,615 posts
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    I think he would say 'this is the story of westeros' as opposed to the story of House Stark or House Lannister, but its still very difficult to continue with a story without a 'lead character'.

    I think the TV series is going to suffer doubly for it to be honest because, as rare as it is in fiction, its almost unheard of in television. I wouldnt be surprised if it was canned before it can play out, let alone catch up to the books as people are worried about.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • shamblemonkee 10 Apr 2012 12:53:28 14,494 posts
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    you meant it isn't the Tyrion Saga? those are the only chapters i read ;-)
  • the_dudefather 10 Apr 2012 13:00:12 9,336 posts
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    the 'Daenerys sitting around eating figs' saga

    (ง ͠ ͟ʖ ͡)

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