A Thread of Ice and Fire Page 6

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  • Deleted user 29 April 2012 20:00:29
    I was reading a theory that Jon is possibly the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar Targaryen.So if this was true then it could point to him being one head of this oft mentioned 3 headed dragon (maybe along with Daenerys and Aegon).
  • otto Moderator 29 Apr 2012 23:14:34 49,290 posts
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    President_Weasel wrote:
    Tricky wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    I am, indeed, assuming that. I don't think GRRM knows whether that's true either at this point.
    Oh that's unfair - I think he knows. It's been pretty clearly signposted a few times that rather than Stannis being Azor Ahai reborn, it's actually Jon who is yet to be reborn and become Azor Ahai. That's one theory anyway.
    Salt and Smoke though, surely that's Dany? Born in a storm, reborn in a great big fire.
    It seems likely that the Red Lady will either heal Jon from the brink of death or bring him back to life after the Julius Caesar scene but that doesn't make him Azor Ahai - and that's even if the whole prophecy thing isn't bollocks anyway.
    Hmm I like the idea that the red bint will rez him, but I think one of the two following scenarios is more likely:

    (a) He turns into one of those ice zombie things
    (b) It's a classic bit of GRRM building someone up only to write them out of the plot just when you thought they were going to matter

    say no to Eurogamer sigs

  • Fydria 2 May 2012 22:54:41 561 posts
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    I wonder what the reasoning behind not calling Asha, Asha in the show. Just wondering why something like that would be changed. Also no Jojen? :(
  • andywilkie35 2 May 2012 23:10:45 5,338 posts
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    Fydria wrote:
    I wonder what the reasoning behind not calling Asha, Asha in the show. Just wondering why something like that would be changed. Also no Jojen? <img src=" />
    They thought Osha sounded too much like Asha so changed it to Yara.

    Finished Dance with Dragons this morning, hello thread

    PSN ID & Xbox Gamertag: Wedjwants

  • MrDigital 7 May 2012 19:48:17 1,866 posts
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    Anyone have any information as to what's happened with swamp kids Jojen Reed and Meera Reed in the TV show? Have they been entirely left out, or are they being pushed back to season 3?

    Formerly TheStylishHobo and Geesh.

  • Salaman 9 May 2012 11:46:01 18,952 posts
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    Not sure, seems left out completely as the last episode had Bran and his little brother legging it from Winterfell with just the wildling woman and Hodor. Unless they bump into them once their out in the wolveswoods or something.

    Speaking of the TV series. It's now getting to the point where the deviations are getting distracting. Although I'm never sure it's my bad memory of the books or just a change.

    I don't remember the dragons getting stolen in Qarth at all for example. Looked like the warlocks did it and I do recall her going into the warlock mansion and stuff but that wasn't to fetch back her dragons was it?

    Same with Jon up in the north. I thought the whole thing with the Halfhand, is that his name? was really cool in the books. Looks like they've just opted to have Jon and his prisoner gettting separated from his fellow crows.
  • Mr-Brett 9 May 2012 12:22:24 12,738 posts
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    I agree, its starting to deviate a lot and I'm not sure it's for the better. I'm also left wondering if I've simply forgot things, I've looked up a few things on the Ice and Fire wiki to check if they happened in the books.
    In regard to your first spoiler: I couldn't find any reference to the dragons being stolen..

    Portable view - Never forget.

  • President_Weasel 9 May 2012 12:41:45 9,118 posts
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    Nah that's a change from the book to the TV series, but one that probably works to move the action along better and gets her to the same place in the end.
    There was, if I remember rightly, quite a lot of "what's going on inside her head" type narration going on during that part, and it's going to be a lot easier to show oh shit they stole my dragons, let's fuck em up than it would be to show oh shit, they invited me round for tea and crumpets but now they're using magic or poison or magical poison or poisonous magic or something to try to kill me and steal my dragons, let's fuck them up

    Edited by President_Weasel at 12:42:22 09-05-2012
  • Salaman 9 May 2012 13:57:51 18,952 posts
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    President_Weasel wrote:
    Nah that's a change from the book to the TV series, but one that probably works to move the action along better and gets her to the same place in the end.
    There was, if I remember rightly, quite a lot of "what's going on inside her head" type narration going on during that part, and it's going to be a lot easier to show oh shit they stole my dragons, let's fuck em up than it would be to show oh shit, they invited me round for tea and crumpets but now they're using magic or poison or magical poison or poisonous magic or something to try to kill me and steal my dragons, let's fuck them up

    Yeah, true dat. That whole section in the warlock's mansion with the corridors of closed doors and then some room and some potion/tea/magic/drink and the figures in cowls or the whatnots was very tedious reading. I guess it all was supposed to be somewhat mystical and mysterious and shit. My eyes just glazed over and I read through without registering much of it until it got to and then she sort of managed to break out of it and (possibly) torch the place (not sure of that part) and leave.

    I should really re-read the books again. Probably a lot easier to follow second time around.
  • President_Weasel 9 May 2012 14:30:18 9,118 posts
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    No, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what happened.
    Although you could still read the books again for the other bits :)
  • Fydria 9 May 2012 16:58:17 561 posts
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    I was hoping Jojen and Meera would be in this season. But after Bran said about the "Sea coming to Winterfell, which is what Jojen told him in the book I guessed they probably won't be in this season.. I thought the Jon and Ygritte meeting was actually quite accurate until she ran away and Jon chased, but seems like good casting on that part.

    I'm really looking forward to the Battle of Blackwater. I wonder if Tyrion will lose his nose :D
  • PazJohnMitch 9 May 2012 20:02:16 7,948 posts
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    I think the show will use Osha instead of Meera in the tv series. Jojen's bits will be then shared by Osha and Bran. (Mainly Bran).

    They might even give Rickon a few of Bran's lines to add a bit of diversity to the scenes.
  • PazJohnMitch 9 May 2012 20:18:07 7,948 posts
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    Saturn_Ascends wrote:
    I was reading a theory that Jon is possibly the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar Targaryen.So if this was true then it could point to him being one head of this oft mentioned 3 headed dragon (maybe along with Daenerys and Aegon).
    I always thought that would be Jon's destiny. He just seemed like a good match as he is a well rounded character. Currently on book 4 so this might be silly but I think the third would be Arya as the 3 of them (including Daerneys) are the hero characters in my eyes. Although I would sort of like it to be Jaime as to me he is the anti-hero.

    No idea about that theory you read though. It is an interesting take. I however do not want any evidence to support the claim as that might spoil the 5th book for me.

    Edit: If Targaryeon blood is required however then a Mad King or another Rhaegar bastard would not be unheard of. It was kind of hinted at in Dorne (early book 4). Although that might be the source of the Jon theory.

    Edit 2: Possible counter argument to the original theory. Arya is Jon's spitting image. I know Lyanna was Ned's sister but their similarity would suggest a closer relationship than cousins.

    Edited by PazJohnMitch at 20:27:42 09-05-2012

    Edited by PazJohnMitch at 20:36:44 09-05-2012
  • mcmonkeyplc 29 May 2012 11:28:40 39,406 posts
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    I don't know about the rest of you but having Tywin come in and win the battle of Blackwater instead of some random reference to Renleys ghost bad me feel angry. I hate seeing Lanister's prosper!

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Blakester 29 May 2012 11:43:46 3,589 posts
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    I thought the battle was fairly well realised in the show, but would I be right in thinking it was a daytime battle in the book?

    When you can't see the angles on the wall you're in trouble.

  • PazJohnMitch 29 May 2012 11:52:19 7,948 posts
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    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    I don't know about the rest of you but having Tywin come in and win the battle of Blackwater instead of some random reference to Renleys ghost bad me feel angry. I hate seeing Lanister's prosper!
    Loras was Renly's ghost. (He was wearing Renly's armour).

    I thought that was precisely when Tywin turned up? Stannis' troops were a bit split up though and Tywin took some and Loras the rest?
  • mcmonkeyplc 30 May 2012 09:37:42 39,406 posts
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    Oh yeah....DUH!

    Sorry.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Salaman 31 May 2012 11:47:08 18,952 posts
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    I kept thinking in the last 2 episodes "Well if Stannis is only a day or two days from King's Landing you better get started on your chain little imp man!"

    Him getting cut in the face doesn't seem like it's a proper "half his nose gone" job either. This happens whilst he's full of bloodlust and getting involved in the battle on the destroyed ships normally yeah? With some random getting him and Podrick saving him.

    Looked like a kingsguard got him outside the mudgate.
  • mcmonkeyplc 31 May 2012 12:01:25 39,406 posts
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    It was a kingsguard IN THE BOOK wasn't it?

    It was someone that was supposed to be allied to him atleast. Cersei was trying to get him killed

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • nickthegun 31 May 2012 12:11:54 59,282 posts
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    The reason he didnt get his nose cut off is pretty obvious: its television.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    He totally called it

  • Salaman 31 May 2012 12:23:37 18,952 posts
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    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    It was a kingsguard IN THE BOOK wasn't it?

    It was someone that was supposed to be allied to him atleast. Cersei was trying to get him killed
    Was it? I read them but I didn't retain much from them. The overall plot lines yeah but not too many of the details.
  • President_Weasel 31 May 2012 12:51:25 9,118 posts
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    it was one of Cersie's pets in the Kingsguard, if I remember right. That would match with the TV series, where it was the Kingsguard guy the Tyrion said should represent the king and carry the banner, or something.
    Been a while since I read the book, but didn't Cersei have three knights who were brothers or cousins or something? Ones that didn't really deserve to be on the Kingsguard since they weren't the best around (in terms of honour or of fighting) but she got at least one of them in anyway.
    Has someone read the books more recently than me and can confirm that?

    I don't know if it was ever explicitly stated that Cersei had told him to do it though - hadn't the imp threatened to have Bronn cut his tongue out a couple of episodes ago? Also Joffrey's a poisonous little shit too, so it could have been him, or he might even have done it on spec figuring that the Lannisters who liked him would be in a stronger position afterwards.
    Definitely a kingsguard though, in the book and in the TV show. Bridge of boats in the book.

    Edited by President_Weasel at 12:58:58 31-05-2012
  • 4gate 31 May 2012 13:05:43 362 posts
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    The Kettleblacks were her pets in the book, but the attempted killer of Tyrion was the same in the book and TV, one of the Kingsguard, Ser Boros Blount or Ser Meryn Swann or somesuch, one of the useless ones. I think the books confirm Cersei ordered him, to stop Tyrion revealing the incest Tywin has turned a blind eye to.

    Edited by 4gate at 13:07:24 31-05-2012
  • President_Weasel 31 May 2012 15:14:44 9,118 posts
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    Oh yeah, the Kettleblacks were the really shit ones that Cersei promoted, but Blount and Swann were some other, not quite as shit but not nearly up to Kingsguard standard, ones.
    Were they part of Robert's Kingsguard? The ones Barristan Selmy was so scornful of?
  • mcmonkeyplc 31 May 2012 15:20:40 39,406 posts
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    I think Blount and Swann were Kettlebacks.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Deleted user 31 May 2012 15:29:01
    It was Mandon Moore who tried to kill Tyrion in the books. Yes, I had to look this up. Too many names.

    Blount and Swann aren't Kettleblacks.
  • Salaman 31 May 2012 15:39:07 18,952 posts
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    Too many names indeed. ;-)

    Forgot about the ghost of renly too. Did they work that in you say? Completely missed it. Didn't spot Loras, didn't realise he was wearing Renly's armour and they didn't really dwell on it either did they. No panicked troops wailign "Oh my, oh my! It's renly's ghost, we're doomed".
  • Deleted user 31 May 2012 16:14:33
    It was when Tywin came into throne room near the end, Loras was there with him.
  • Fydria 31 May 2012 16:38:32 561 posts
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    I actually thought Blackwater might have been the season finale. I really enjoyed it though, the wild fire explosion was pretty crazy. I was quite surprised they never mentioned Renly's ghost too, but again probably would have been hard to get that message across on screen. Excited to see how they leave this season now.

    Also I read confirmation the other day that Jojen and Meera will be part of season 3 :D!

    Edited by Fydria at 16:38:55 31-05-2012
  • MrDigital 31 May 2012 17:02:41 1,866 posts
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    Also, Cersei was fucking at least one of the Kettleblacks but I have a feeling these two came into the books much later. I remember in the last book, when Cersei gets detained by the evangelical folk that one of the Kettleblacks is strung up because he is part of her plot.

    Fydria wrote:
    Also I read confirmation the other day that Jojen and Meera will be part of season 3 :D!
    Awesome! :D

    Formerly TheStylishHobo and Geesh.

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