Revolution in the middle east Page 68

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  • fletch7100 27 Aug 2013 20:43:26 7,319 posts
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    Must be something about March and chemical weapons. I believe 19th March was first time chemical weapons were used in Syria. Both sides blaming each other, Russia and UN said it was elements of the rebel forces that did it.

    16th March was 25th Anniversary of Saddam Husseins chemical weapon bombing of Kurds in Northern Iraq in 1988. Estimated 5000 people were killed, soil,water and gene pool were contaminated,high number of children being born deformed since the attack. Mixture of mustard gas and various nerve agents were used

    Then this article
    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/08/25/secret_cia_files_prove_america_helped_saddam_as_he_gassed_iran
    Sort of open secret that one, plus US was giving Iraq intel as well. Basically wanted both sides to considerably weaken each other

    Another article that Could be related to if/ maybe the rebels got chemicals, or maybe just raided supply depots. Or it could be Government forces was behind this attack
    http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/middle-east/syria/120606/syrian-rebels-weapons-arms-revolution

    Edited by fletch7100 at 20:45:14 27-08-2013
  • shamblemonkee 27 Aug 2013 20:45:28 14,392 posts
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    @elmastero oh the reasons are the same, resource control and regional influence.
  • reggy72 27 Aug 2013 20:48:47 280 posts
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    Rumours milling around that The Russian fleet is within striking distance of Saudi, clever move if true.
  • brokenkey 27 Aug 2013 21:06:19 7,033 posts
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    what's the relevance of Saudi?

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  • Rodney 27 Aug 2013 21:08:26 1,895 posts
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    They are funding / arming the rebels
  • Rodney 27 Aug 2013 21:12:16 1,895 posts
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    One point that might factor into US/UK decision making is that if Syria becomes a failed state (which at this point looks likely) then a lot of sophisticated and chemical weapons could fall into the hands of some nefarious groups.

    Don't the rebels have links to Alqaeda? Imagine if they got their hands on some sarin or mustard gas.

    it must be a concern.
  • reggy72 27 Aug 2013 21:47:06 280 posts
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    http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2013/06/25/17953.shtml
    "A senior source in the Russian Air Force told to Moscow website Telegrafist that Russia had plans to bomb Qatar and Saudi Arabia.

    He claims that the combat mission can be done by a unit of Su-27s, as well as by modern bombers Su-34s with extra fuel tanks, accompanied by the Su-27s.



    "Today, the situation is such that even in case if the Su-34s do not have enough fuel to get out of Iran's airspace on return flight, they will be able to land right there", he said - "a combat radius of the Su-27s allows fly to the capital of Qatar and Saudi Arabia and return, the Su-34s do not have such radius".

    On the question when and why these plans developed, the Russian Air Force officer replied:
    "Saudi Arabia is a key US ally in the region, not Israel, as many suggest, namely the regime of King Abdullah who is willing to get involved where you want to please his masters, so of course the Soviet Union was preparing plans for the destruction of this regime because without it - Saudi Arabia will no longer be an integral state and Washington will get hordes of barbarians who destroy their bases by using the same US military hardware".

    The Russians also claimed they needed no more than 24 hours for the entire operation to destroy the ruling circles of the two monarchies from the air.

    Department of Monitoring

    Kavkaz Center"

    Who knows maybe those Russian fleet movement towards Saudi has some truth in it. As for Saudi's relevance in all this, it funds/arms the FSA which has been overrun by foreign Jihadists.

    The point is that Russia has had enough of "team merika world police" and this sends a strong message to Washington if true.
    You attack Syria we'll flatten Saudi which in turn could collapse the US petrol dollar and secondly make Syria's massive oil reserves worth an absolute fortune.
  • Metalfish 27 Aug 2013 21:53:17 8,818 posts
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    You don't really get how global economics works, do you?*

    *This epic burn may have been improved were it not true that no one, really, gets economics.

    Edited by Metalfish at 21:53:34 27-08-2013
  • reggy72 27 Aug 2013 21:54:02 280 posts
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    elmastero wrote:
    Mark my words, it's gonna be Vietnam and Afghanistan and Iraq all over again, If US interferes.

    Weapons, September 11, Nukes and now Chemicals.only the reasons differ, all else is the same.

    a
    Worst case scenario it could end up like WW3, too many big players at the table, too much potentially at stake, I'm hoping for a diplomatic solution otherwise this could spiral beyond control.
  • Deleted user 27 August 2013 22:12:47
    elmastero wrote:
    Mark my words, it's gonna be Vietnam and Afghanistan and Iraq all over again, If US interferes.

    Weapons, September 11, Nukes and now Chemicals.only the reasons differ, all else is the same.

    a
    I don't think they will go in ala Iraq. It will be pop shots from crusie missiles of shore etc.

    Problem is how Russia/china/iran will react. But i don't think Russia will have the apetetite to go in either. Time and time again they posture, but always seems to back down and fall in line with the rest of europe.

    The other problem is, is iraq. If that didn;t happen, i think the west would have been bolder by nipping it in the bud, like we did with libya. We have allowed it to grow and fester, with all sorts of groups wanting a peice of the action. Instead everything is now dictated by what happened 10 years ago.

    First thing is first, evidence needs to put on the table, by all accounts may be published later in the week.

    Edited by joelstinton at 22:13:53 27-08-2013
  • Immaterial 27 Aug 2013 22:40:05 1,377 posts
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    Pretty good summary of the chemical weapons/Western intervention timing from Al Jazeera (lovely bloke, Al).

    Think I'll just switch everything off.

  • Whizzo 28 Aug 2013 00:11:46 43,124 posts
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    reggy72 wrote: On the question when and why these plans developed, the Russian Air Force officer replied:
    "Saudi Arabia is a key US ally in the region, not Israel, as many suggest, namely the regime of King Abdullah who is willing to get involved where you want to please his masters, so of course the Soviet Union was preparing plans for the destruction of this regime because without it
    I think it's safe to say any plans were from a very long time ago.

    At least the Jihadis would have a new target rather than the West, Russia dropping anything near Mecca, whether by accident or design, would cause them some grief.

    This space left intentionally blank.

  • Deleted user 28 August 2013 10:01:10
    A senior source in the Russian Air Force told to Moscow website Telegrafist that Russia had plans to bomb Qatar and Saudi Arabia.
    Russia has a military base in Syria (Tartus), just as the United States has a military base in Qatar (Al-Udaid). So this plan for retaliation may not be too far-fetched.

    That said, I'm still doubtful. The Russian government's relations with Qatar and Saudi Arabia are quite complex, (as major exporters of oil and gas, they have many interests in common), and it is unlikely that Moscow would jeopardize them with a reckless air attack.
  • LetsGo 28 Aug 2013 10:03:23 5,217 posts
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    IMO this is all wrong, wrong, wrong!

    We need to give the UN weapon inspectors time to find out what happened. Then, they should report back to the UN and a decision is made by the UN, not the USA/us.

    It just looks like we are yet again bullying the world, the UN should be in charge and not us or the USA.
  • Rodney 28 Aug 2013 10:21:57 1,895 posts
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    I agree in principle but they left it too late to investigate. Even if the investigators did determine who was responsible the UN probably wouldn't do much (too many vested interests amongst security council members) apart from maybe sanctions.

    I still find it hard to believe that Assad's regime was responsible. Why allow in inspectors and then launch a chemical weapon attack a few days later. He's signed his own death warrant unless he calculated that the US/UN wouldn't do anything because of Russia.

    Edited by Rodney at 10:23:21 28-08-2013

    Edited by Rodney at 10:24:44 28-08-2013
  • Rodney 28 Aug 2013 10:31:00 1,895 posts
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    I feel sorry for the Iranian people. Fuck their leaders.
  • Deleted user 28 August 2013 10:32:56
    Rodney wrote:
    I agree in principle but they left it too late to investigate. Even if the investigators did determine who was responsible the UN probably wouldn't do much (too many vested interests amongst security council members) apart from maybe sanctions.

    I still find it hard to believe that Assad's regime was responsible. Why allow in inspectors and then launch a chemical weapon attack a few days later. He's signed his own death warrant unless he calculated that the US/UN wouldn't do anything because of Russia.

    Edited by Rodney at 10:23:21 28-08-2013
    I think your first paragraphs answers your second. They have (well maybe) delayed the UN getting to the scenes - leaves doubt
  • mcmonkeyplc 28 Aug 2013 10:34:57 39,457 posts
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    We overthrew the Iranian government?!

    When?

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • brokenkey 28 Aug 2013 10:37:51 7,033 posts
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    haven't started a war this century...we're barely into it, plenty of time left.

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  • mcmonkeyplc 28 Aug 2013 10:40:01 39,457 posts
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    Also the Iran/Iraq war never happened did it?

    Edited by mcmonkeyplc at 10:40:20 28-08-2013

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Deleted user 28 August 2013 10:40:40
  • Deleted user 28 August 2013 10:41:03
    Woops didn't expect it to be that big. At least you can all read it :)
  • Deleted user 28 August 2013 10:41:04
    Woops didn't expect it to be that big. At least you can all read it :)
  • mcmonkeyplc 28 Aug 2013 11:21:13 39,457 posts
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    sajasanman wrote:
    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    We overthrew the Iranian government?!

    When?
    Just after the war. About oil. Same old same old.

    And I meant last century too.
    What about the Iran Iraq war. Did that never happen?

    Come and get it cumslingers!

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