Revolution in the middle east Page 60

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  • LeoliansBro 16 Nov 2012 14:50:01 43,248 posts
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    Aaron, can you give me an example of an 'accident'.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • AaronTurner 16 Nov 2012 14:52:07 7,596 posts
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    No I really do, I'm surprised people would call it an accident at all.

    And clearly you're content with constantly misrepresenting what I said to undermine my opinion. I never said that they brought bulldozers to deliberately kill a person, I never said murder was in their minds at the outset, in fact I didn't say it was murder. What I said was, in that situation I don't think it can be called an accident. When they were in that situation I have doubts in my mind about how much they care for another person's life if they're busy flattening their home and stealing their land.
  • disusedgenius 16 Nov 2012 14:56:07 5,225 posts
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    AaronTurner wrote:
    I never said that they brought bulldozers to deliberately kill a person, I never said murder was in their minds at the outset, in fact I didn't say it was murder.
    What I said was, in that situation I don't think it can be called an accident.
    These two statements are mutually exclusive. Your level of stupidity is both depressing and aggravating.
  • AaronTurner 16 Nov 2012 14:56:43 7,596 posts
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    They really aren't.
  • disusedgenius 16 Nov 2012 14:57:47 5,225 posts
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    I'm going to presume you're doing it deliberately now, just to spare my sanity.
  • mcmonkeyplc 16 Nov 2012 14:59:15 39,387 posts
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    Anyway let's talk more of America's coming oil independence and it's influence on the Middle East.

    I don't think it's going to be a good thing for us Europeans.

    We're going to have to deal with this mess on our own.

    Edited by mcmonkeyplc at 14:59:48 16-11-2012

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • AaronTurner 16 Nov 2012 15:01:09 7,596 posts
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    disusedgenius wrote:
    I'm going to presume you're doing it deliberately now, just to spare my sanity.
    Please do because there is nothing mutually exclusive about those two statements unless you think everything is either accident or murder.

    As I said earlier, it was at best criminal negligence, at worst murder.
  • LeoliansBro 16 Nov 2012 15:04:01 43,248 posts
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    Aaron, I'm trying to understand what you're thinking here. Do you have this idea that everyone was sitting around in the house watching Seinfeld when a bulldozer suddenly drove through the wall and crushed them?

    That would potentially be murder, if the house could reasonably expect to be occupied. However it seems that the building was thought empty, the families living there had been removed, and the demolition was just intended to underline the intention to force them to move elsewhere.

    There is certainly an argument for saying that is cruel and inhumane and it is very much a heavy handed thing to do. But they did not intend to murder anyone.

    Edit: probs not Seinfeld.

    Edited by LeoliansBro at 15:07:40 16-11-2012

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Deleted user 16 November 2012 15:05:20
    Post deleted
  • LeoliansBro 16 Nov 2012 15:06:24 43,248 posts
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    .

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • senso-ji 16 Nov 2012 15:12:00 5,800 posts
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    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    Anyway let's talk more of America's coming oil independence and it's influence on the Middle East.

    I don't think it's going to be a good thing for us Europeans.

    We're going to have to deal with this mess on our own.
    Read the article linked a few pages back about the Pro-Israel lobby. America is not leaving the middle east/Israel, even if they become 100% energy independent.
  • Deleted user 16 November 2012 15:22:26
    And you seem to be a massive racist without a single intelligent thought in that pretty pea sized head of yours.

    And don't claim you were joking because you clearly weren't.

    Edited by Aargh. at 15:23:08 16-11-2012
  • SClaw 16 Nov 2012 15:33:56 826 posts
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    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    Anyway let's talk more of America's coming oil independence and it's influence on the Middle East.

    I don't think it's going to be a good thing for us Europeans.

    We're going to have to deal with this mess on our own.
    Wasn't so long ago that there were plans to trade oil in the Euro, which was also vaguely heralded as the end of the world. I don't think it'll be a great shift of power; there's oil coming out of Africa too and if the big nations put pressure on the oil companies to sort their shit out down there they could have removed themselves from the middle east a long time ago.

    The old oil/middle east thing is very 90s. I don't think it's as critical for policy as it once was. Natural gas is probably a bigger headache for Amercica than oil these days.
  • mcmonkeyplc 16 Nov 2012 15:45:43 39,387 posts
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    SClaw wrote:
    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    Anyway let's talk more of America's coming oil independence and it's influence on the Middle East.

    I don't think it's going to be a good thing for us Europeans.

    We're going to have to deal with this mess on our own.
    Wasn't so long ago that there were plans to trade oil in the Euro, which was also vaguely heralded as the end of the world. I don't think it'll be a great shift of power; there's oil coming out of Africa too and if the big nations put pressure on the oil companies to sort their shit out down there they could have removed themselves from the middle east a long time ago.

    The old oil/middle east thing is very 90s. I don't think it's as critical for policy as it once was. Natural gas is probably a bigger headache for Amercica than oil these days.
    A few points

    The Iraq war happened this century. Some say the first oil war.

    Have you heard of Shale gas?

    That is all.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • mcmonkeyplc 16 Nov 2012 15:47:10 39,387 posts
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    @Aargh. Where is that arse?!

    WHERE?!

    WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 16 Nov 2012 16:16:56 6,654 posts
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    Fucking worrying this latest Israel flare up. Why do they buy into this American idea that great leaders come from a military background. Seems that way anyway.
  • LeoliansBro 16 Nov 2012 16:22:06 43,248 posts
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    Economist reckon the US tradition comes from George Washington.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 16 Nov 2012 16:28:48 6,654 posts
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    Didn't know that. It makes me think of Sarah Palin, when she was speaking publicly at a Tea Party gathering and said something along the lines of "I raised a combat veteran, so I must be doing something right"

    Now, don't get me wrong, the sacrifice conscripted soldiers have made in the name of freedom is amazing, but I'm not sure I agree that the modern professional soldier is the best society has to offer.
  • richardiox 16 Nov 2012 17:26:17 5,547 posts
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    Think this thread has got caught up in definitions of an accident. The issue is why the fuck were they bulldozing 2,500 civilian homes not whether resultant deaths were accidental or not.

    The girl who died was there to stop homes getting bulldozed.

    If someone firebombed my house without knowing I was in there then my death would be an accidental outcome. The point is, if they hadn't firebombed my house I'd still be alive.

    Edited by richardiox at 17:28:07 16-11-2012
  • DodgyPast 16 Nov 2012 17:26:51 8,417 posts
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    Wasn't murder, but it could've been manslaughter.
  • localnotail 16 Nov 2012 17:37:26 23,093 posts
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    Hamas aiming at Jerusalem now.

    btw, those Iron Shield rockets are about 72K each. Someone's making good business out of this.

    A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

  • richardiox 16 Nov 2012 17:38:30 5,547 posts
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    @LeoliansBro @Aargh

    This idea that the areas are cleared and made safe before the bulldozing work begins is pure bullshit. The IDF treat everyone in Gaza as a terrorist so in effect in their eyes civilian casualties are impossible.

    http://youtu.be/EC6C-cAc240

    If one of the CHILDREN in that video got killed would it be an accident with neither the driver or the IDF having any liability?

    There's dozens of videos like that around. Does it look like carefully managed area clearing or is it "fuck you and fuck your homes"

    It's actually pretty bad taste using this thread to wind of the "lefties" and essentially removing blame from the guilty parties.
  • Psychotext 16 Nov 2012 17:39:18 53,855 posts
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    localnotail wrote:
    btw, those Iron Shield rockets are about 72K each. Someone's making good business out of this.
    I suspect the laser option would have been somewhat cheaper per shot but they've made their bed and in fairness it does seem to work well.

    Edited by Psychotext at 17:39:39 16-11-2012
  • localnotail 16 Nov 2012 17:44:12 23,093 posts
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    Not as pretty as lasers.

    A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

  • disusedgenius 16 Nov 2012 17:44:40 5,225 posts
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    richardiox wrote:
    The issue is why the fuck were they bulldozing 2,500 civilian homes not whether resultant deaths were accidental or not.
    Actually those are 2 separate issues, which is why you seem to be getting all uppity.
  • Deleted user 16 November 2012 17:52:03
    richardiox wrote:
    @LeoliansBro @Aargh

    This idea that the areas are cleared and made safe before the bulldozing work begins is pure bullshit. The IDF treat everyone in Gaza as a terrorist so in effect in their eyes civilian casualties are impossible.

    http://youtu.be/EC6C-cAc240

    If one of the CHILDREN in that video got killed would it be an accident with neither the driver or the IDF having any liability?

    There's dozens of videos like that around. Does it look like carefully managed area clearing or is it "fuck you and fuck your homes"

    It's actually pretty bad taste using this thread to wind of the "lefties" and essentially removing blame from the guilty parties.
    As I said earlier the entire issue is too complex to wade in without being very careful about the language and facts used.

    Rather than posting youtube videos that barely touch the surface of the issue and spouting off about 'using this thread to wind of the "lefties"' (whatever that means), you could add something of worth to the issue?

    We don't know the facts of many of the things that happen, at least don't dive in head first trying to sound like you were there.
  • richardiox 16 Nov 2012 18:20:47 5,547 posts
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    Video was just debunking the myth that the bulldozers were operating in safe areas.
  • Deleted user 16 November 2012 18:28:24
    That wasn't a point anyone was making.
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