The UK General Politics Thread Page 119

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  • El_MUERkO 19 Jul 2013 14:22:33 17,149 posts
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  • mcmonkeyplc 19 Jul 2013 14:26:09 39,570 posts
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    Must be some kind of instinct for people to link that video.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Khanivor 19 Jul 2013 14:33:20 41,295 posts
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    Fracking is shifty but its allowing the US to be on track to be the largest energy producer in the world in a decade or so. This is already having profound geo-political implications as the need to pander to oil producers in the Middle East and elsewhere is diminishing.

    I'd be concerned about giving too many tax breaks but perhaps there would be a benefit from that. Companies would not have to squeeze as hard to make money so safety might not be constrained. Plenty if qualifiers there tho :)
  • El_MUERkO 19 Jul 2013 14:37:01 17,149 posts
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    I don't see it linked before now, there was a link to the trailer of the first movie, this is to the sequel which was aired on HBO a couple of weeks ago and deals far more with the lobbying of government by Gas companies.

    Fracking has me worried though, my water is from a spring on my land, which is in an area the government says has plenty of shale and thus is at risk from Fracking, I'd really rather not get poisoned or have an earthquake damage my house so some MP can get a cushy directorship.
  • mcmonkeyplc 19 Jul 2013 14:45:58 39,570 posts
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    Water is pretty essential to life in this country. I would HOPE that our government isn't retarded enough to fluff the regulation in regards to safe guarding our water supply.

    Frackin up our water supply is a massive drag on growth after all :)

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Mr_Sleep 19 Jul 2013 14:51:50 17,389 posts
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    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    Water is pretty essential to life in this country. I would HOPE that our government isn't retarded enough to fluff the regulation in regards to safe guarding our water supply.
    I have to lol at this, our government has a pretty good record of fluffing up regulation, I can't see how this would be any different.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • Bremenacht 19 Jul 2013 14:54:32 19,665 posts
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    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    That would be a start. Investing in renewable energy research as well, that will probably be 0.01% of the tax revenue. Should be 10%
    No thanks.
  • mcmonkeyplc 19 Jul 2013 15:07:10 39,570 posts
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    Mr_Sleep wrote:
    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    Water is pretty essential to life in this country. I would HOPE that our government isn't retarded enough to fluff the regulation in regards to safe guarding our water supply.
    I have to lol at this, our government has a pretty good record of fluffing up regulation, I can't see how this would be any different.
    Because fucking up on this would kill/poison a shit load of people and that is not good for growth :)

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • mcmonkeyplc 19 Jul 2013 15:08:20 39,570 posts
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    We aren't America, our conservative party are pretty much democrats in the US. They understand that regulation is required.

    If they don't they'll join UKip. :p

    Edited by mcmonkeyplc at 15:12:13 19-07-2013

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Destria 19 Jul 2013 15:56:38 2,836 posts
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    Hopefully the regulations are, at a bare minimum, in place to the extent that any f*ck-up = massively expensive liability.

    Even the most sociopathic organisation doesn't want to be saddled with a massive clean-up bill that cost more than following appropriately robust safeguards would.
  • DigitalDelay 20 Jul 2013 13:56:00 230 posts
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    Sadly though, it seems greedhead energy companies simply don't give a fook about liability. I don't see anyone getting punished when their operations result in major disasters. They are immune to true justice.

    I'm really not looking forward to a future of being a world leader of fracking here in the UK, it saddens me that whole communities are rejecting it, yet still have it forced upon them. Most of us don't want the threat of toxic/radioactive waste, contaminated water, earthquakes, methane in the air etc etc, yet there is nothing we can do about it, "that's the sound of another door shutting in the face of progress..."

    Every time I see Osbourne banging on about fracking creating jobs and cheaper fuel bills, blah blah I just want to punch him in his lying face! I find it hard to believe we live in a democracy anymore, but do carry on voting folks, one bunch of criminals has to be elected over the others eh.

    *Oooh rant. Big one for me that!

    EDIT - To remove a chavish smiley with hat. What was I thinking?

    Edited by DigitalDelay at 15:36:45 20-07-2013
  • Destria 20 Jul 2013 16:00:45 2,836 posts
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    I don't know... BP is getting fairly nicely f*cked financially after the oil spill thing.

    If you mean criminal proceedings of course, that's a different matter...
  • Khanivor 20 Jul 2013 16:06:55 41,295 posts
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    Well there are a couple of mid level BP employees the US govt is taking to court. Of course, the fellas getting paid tens of millions a year to be in charge and responsible are not going to go on trial.
  • DigitalDelay 20 Jul 2013 16:07:59 230 posts
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    It's hard to get f*cked financially though when you pretty much have your own money press.
  • Khanivor 20 Jul 2013 16:12:45 41,295 posts
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    I dunno man, BP have had to pay out billions so far and their share price more than halved after DeepWater. OK, it's gone back up but it's still trading at a third less than before the disaster.
  • Destria 20 Jul 2013 16:36:56 2,836 posts
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    8 billion (and probably more they think) on compensation, not to mention impact on reputation and such. As rich as BP may be, that's money that investors would prefer to have spent on further investment or dividends.

    Whether they're not being punished enough, or being punished in the wrong way, is one thing. But they're definitely suffering
  • DigitalDelay 20 Jul 2013 16:43:06 230 posts
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    Aw, well I feel sorry for them now. I might even start paying that 1p when I go over a bit filling up with petrol. You know, 10.01. ;)

    Seriously though, but so they should pay out, the cost of screwing up nature on a vast scale should carry a heavy cost indeed. I do try to not get all worked up over these things, I should just accept these oil tycoons are the earths overlords and just bow to them. I suspect most of the "untouchables" at the top are from other planets. Because they care little for the people on this one!

    Oooh, another rant. Twice in one day. I'm a bad boy?
  • Bremenacht 20 Jul 2013 21:22:40 19,665 posts
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    The difference is that they were fined and taken to court in America. America's odd. On the one hand they seem to more than just tolerant of awful lobbying and shabby corporate behaviour, yet on the other hand when they decide someone(s) have done wrong, they really punish them. Massive fines; Jail time.

    In the UK, fuck all happens. Huffing and puffing by MPs keen to see off public outrage, but usually nothing in the way of change. BAU.
  • Moot_Point 24 Jul 2013 14:11:01 4,625 posts
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    Dejavu! Let's time warp to 2001 again!

    ================================================================================

    mowgli wrote: I thought the 1 married the .2 and founded Islam?

  • spamdangled 24 Jul 2013 15:05:40 27,485 posts
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    Destria wrote:
    Hopefully the regulations are, at a bare minimum, in place to the extent that any f*ck-up = massively expensive liability.

    Even the most sociopathic organisation doesn't want to be saddled with a massive clean-up bill that cost more than following appropriately robust safeguards would.
    Tell that to Shell. They're still trying to weasel out of responsibility for the oil spill by limiting victim's ability to claim compensation.

    In order to take into account the possible negative repurcussions of their actions, these companies have to contemplate the idea that what they are doing is potentailly very, very wrong/harmful in the first place. And many of them are simply too arrogant for that.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 15:07:03 24-07-2013

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  • spamdangled 24 Jul 2013 15:09:19 27,485 posts
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    Bremenacht wrote:
    The difference is that they were fined and taken to court in America. America's odd. On the one hand they seem to more than just tolerant of awful lobbying and shabby corporate behaviour, yet on the other hand when they decide someone(s) have done wrong, they really punish them. Massive fines; Jail time.
    Which does nothing to act as a deterrant. If it did, they wouldn't be home to some of the most corrupt organisations on the planet and wouldn't go through all these scandals time and time again.

    A punishment means nothing if you aren't doing anything in the meantime to prevent the crimes from being committed in the first place.

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  • spamdangled 25 Jul 2013 09:21:39 27,485 posts
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    Archbishop of Canterbury is going to use the CoE to "force Wonga out of business" ... by competing against it in the payday loans market.

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  • glaeken 25 Jul 2013 09:26:51 11,266 posts
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    So the CoE are going to become loan sharks? I thought that was against the whole Jesus thing.
  • spamdangled 25 Jul 2013 09:30:17 27,485 posts
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    glaeken wrote:
    So the CoE are going to become loan sharks? I thought that was against the whole Jesus thing.
    The idea seems to be that they will help people set up co-operatives and provide them buildings and "their expertise". Which still sounds a little loan-sharky.

    Reports that there was a large man in a black suit and sunglasses cracking his knuckles during the announcement are unconfirmed.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 09:31:19 25-07-2013

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  • glaeken 25 Jul 2013 09:35:47 11,266 posts
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    I think the point with co-operatives is the interest rates are very low or at least not 3000% like Wonga. I guess it's an improvement though maybe something the government should organise rather than the church. Still maybe they are looking to diversify what with religion becoming a bit niche.
  • spamdangled 25 Jul 2013 10:11:49 27,485 posts
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    glaeken wrote:
    I think the point with co-operatives is the interest rates are very low or at least not 3000% like Wonga. I guess it's an improvement though maybe something the government should organise rather than the church. Still maybe they are looking to diversify what with religion becoming a bit niche.
    It's definitely an area that needs to be far more heavily regulated - not least because it's this Government themselves that has created a situation of crashing living standards and high inflation. A cap on the maximum rate of interest would be a start, along with bringing them under the authority of something like the Bank of England instead of the frequently-useless OFT which tends to resort to bold statements with little actual action, despite repeated grandstanding that they are doing something about it.

    Given that it's something that is frequently (and I mean frequently - at least twice a week) raised as an issue in the Commons (along with Private landlords), not least because these companies are helping to drive the rising suicide rate and seen as exploiting the most vulnerable in society - I hope that it's something that sees some oversight soon. It does make me wonder how many politicians have a vested interest in some of them though.

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  • President_Weasel 25 Jul 2013 10:21:07 9,668 posts
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    glaeken wrote:
    I think the point with co-operatives is the interest rates are very low or at least not 3000% like Wonga. I guess it's an improvement though maybe something the government should organise rather than the church. Still maybe they are looking to diversify what with religion becoming a bit niche.
    The Church of England has vast amounts of property and even though their attendance is declining (and large part of their worldwide communion are thinking about schisming, since the mother church is busy trying to keep the African "kill the gays" tendency and the American "let's all have gay female bishops gay marrying each other woo!" tendency happy at the same time) they've still got hells of money. They've also got vague but strongly held beliefs that they're supposed to try to be a force for social good.

    It actually makes a lot of sense for them to try to help set up microbanks or lending cooperatives or similar things. "Let's put Wonga out of business" is probably just a punchy quote, since there are a lot of Wonga-esque businesses out there. "Let's try to help set up alternatives to Wonga and the many similar companies who profit from the lack of options available to poor families in desperate situations, and try to make things a little better for one of the hardest hit sectors of society" is going to be hard to fit into a headline.
  • Jeepers 25 Jul 2013 10:35:53 13,316 posts
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    glaeken wrote:
    So the CoE are going to become loan sharks? I thought that was against the whole Jesus thing.
    There was the whole thing with Jesus and the money lenders. But that was probably a big misunderstanding.
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