The UK General Politics Thread Page 110

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  • Laserbream 21 May 2013 22:06:34 459 posts
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    Well I'm glad someone else isn't overly impressed at the BHA jumping in with a separate agenda, and I'm a paid up member. Wish I'd emailed them now.
  • spamdangled 21 May 2013 22:30:42 27,197 posts
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    Laserbream wrote:
    Well I'm glad someone else isn't overly impressed at the BHA jumping in with a separate agenda, and I'm a paid up member. Wish I'd emailed them now.
    Is this down to the BHA (i.e a lobbying issue) or is it just something tables by MPs? Some of the MPs involved in the debate identified themselves as humanists, though the amendment (clause, to be specific) was tabled by someone who isn't.

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  • cubbymoore 21 May 2013 22:44:53 36,441 posts
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    I briefly thought of joining the humanists once. Until it became apparent that it's essentially replacing God with humans, which really isn't much difference.
  • spamdangled 22 May 2013 12:52:01 27,197 posts
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    BBC:

    A judge has ruled that the Work Capability Assessment (the whole Atos thing, basically) discriminates against people with mental illness, autism and learning disabilities

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  • Roddles 23 May 2013 10:28:05 1,430 posts
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    Great news, but baby steps. I doubt we'll ever get there to be honest.
  • Bremenacht 23 May 2013 11:46:51 15,753 posts
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    Jeremy Cunt prepares to rubbish GP services but GPs get the boot in first.

    NHS A&E departments 'left unsafe by political meddling'

    Presumably, Cunt will attempt to warm the newsmedia & public towards the idea of more private service companies providing GP services.

    Once an eagle taught me courage. And I will never forget that day

  • LeoliansBro 23 May 2013 11:50:08 41,864 posts
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    It's such bullshit, from both sides.

    NHS wade in with various flavours of the same message: less money means a lower level of service. Colour me shocked. Lending it drama by saying things like 'less safe' is only for emphasis. But then they've politicised themselves by their public involvement and forced a response from the Government, which exposes how much things cost, and how much waste there is. These lead to the public demanding these inefficiencies be addressed, which leads to cuts, which leads to the NHS wading in all over again.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Psychotext 23 May 2013 12:02:35 52,778 posts
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    That's mostly by virtue of the fact that the cuts are never handled in an intelligent manner. Things aren't made more efficient or streamlined, they're generally just hacked to bits.

    What the NHS needs is process re-engineering on a massive scale but no doubt what they'd actually get are some overpaid consultants going in and telling them to close poor performing wards and outsource this and that.
  • Bremenacht 28 May 2013 19:15:33 15,753 posts
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    Courts to be privatised in radical justice shake-up.

    Almost unbelievable. It'll be more important for a court to offer 'value for money' than justice.

    Once an eagle taught me courage. And I will never forget that day

  • Bremenacht 28 May 2013 19:16:59 15,753 posts
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    Oh - and of course, it really will save 1B a year. It won't add to running costs, oh no.

    Once an eagle taught me courage. And I will never forget that day

  • RedSparrows 28 May 2013 19:36:51 20,754 posts
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    What?

    Of all state services, I thought justice would be not entirely sold off. There's enough corruption already. Jesus Christ.

    Someone explain to me how this is ever justified as a good thing.

    I just can't see how privatisation is seen as so benignly good when it's 'sold' to the public. Sure, in some ways it's better than national ownership. But the idea that it's somehow free of all the issues faced by nationally owned bodies, but with LESS accountability, is total shite.

    Edited by RedSparrows at 19:38:34 28-05-2013
  • Tom_Servo 28 May 2013 19:40:58 15,533 posts
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    Cap on number of GP visits being considered by Tories

    Obviously a lot of policies will be considered by parties, and many will never come anywhere near party policy, but I'm surprised this wasn't a non-starter. It sounds bizarre.
  • FWB 28 May 2013 19:43:31 41,943 posts
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    It's completely retarded.
  • Deleted user 28 May 2013 19:46:47
    Fucking hell some of these things must be parody, surely?
  • MIckelsenWhiteLTD 28 May 2013 20:34:09 57 posts
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    I was screamingly outraged by both those proposals until I read the full articles.

    These are the "We're going to fill the O2 Arena with paedophiles and introduce a very drunk and very sexy six year old girl every fifteen seconds until 2016" proposals which "leak" and everyone is outraged and disgusted and froths at the mouth.

    These are followed a few weeks later by the "We're going to fill the O2 Arena with paedophiles and introduce a very drunk and very sexy six year old girl every fifteen weeks until 2016" and people are annoyed. Some froth is let out.

    Then, when the time comes to announce the real policy, the story becomes "We're going to fill the O2 Arena with paedophiles and introduce a very drunk and very sexy fifteen year old girl and keep her there until she is sixteen. Please vote for us." and everyone thinks "Oh, that's not so bad. Remember what they said before?" while ignoring the fact that the idea is still fundamentally abhorrent.

    Welcome to politics.
  • senso-ji 28 May 2013 21:14:53 5,314 posts
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    So the great Tory plan to cut the deficit and get the economy moving is to privatise as many public services as possible, which won't effect the deficit at all.
  • Chopsen 28 May 2013 21:23:39 15,176 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    That's mostly by virtue of the fact that the cuts are never handled in an intelligent manner. Things aren't made more efficient or streamlined, they're generally just hacked to bits.
    The way it's panned out is even worse than that.

    The restructuring of NHS England by getting rid of SHA and PCTs has let to an increase in the level of bureaucracy, not less. There are now multiple organisation doing a lot of the same sorts of stuff, often with overlapping responsibilities. Look at this clusterfuck:

    A mess

    The problem is they went "yeah, lets tear it up and give it to the commissioning groups, they can run everything at local level" and then went "oh fuck that means we've got no control over it. Quick, make some quangoes up."

    There's some good stuff: uniting social and health budgets was a bold step and needed doing. Also, local accountability (gimped as it turned out to be) is sensible as the country isn't the same everywhere, despite what Labour thought.

    Most of it, nearly all of it, is a an expensive mess though.

    Edited by Chopsen at 21:24:29 28-05-2013
  • Bremenacht 28 May 2013 21:24:21 15,753 posts
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    RedSparrows wrote:
    I just can't see how privatisation is seen as so benignly good when it's 'sold' to the public. Sure, in some ways it's better than national ownership. But the idea that it's somehow free of all the issues faced by nationally owned bodies, but with LESS accountability, is total shite.
    Given the last time they flogged a load of public buildings off, you'd think they'd have learned something, but no. I'm trying to find another bit of news for when Madeley almost went bankrupt. As is increasingly the norm for off-shore ownership of UK assets, the owners moved profit off-shore, leaving nothing but debt behind with the UK co., which eventually became unserviceable. They then pretty much blackmailed the HMRC by demanding much higher rent or they'd let the UK co. go insolvent, possibly resulting in HMRC being ejected from offices. HMRC coughed up, so now any savings (if there were really any) have been wiped out.

    However, what I particularly dislike is the suggestion of commercial courts subsidising criminal courts through vastly increased fees for litigants, citing Abramovich as an example. What a weaselly statement. A 'litigant' will also include those being sued by the likes of Abramovich, which means those without a lot of money will find themselves in even more dire financial straits. Still, at least this will attract more libel tourism and more profit for the eventual court owners. Ker-ching!

    Once an eagle taught me courage. And I will never forget that day

  • oconnomiyaki 28 May 2013 21:25:12 245 posts
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    @MIckelsenWhiteLTD I'm kind of concerned you called a six-year-old sexy when making that point. :/
  • FWB 28 May 2013 21:26:05 41,943 posts
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    MIckelsenWhiteLTD wrote:
    I was screamingly outraged by both those proposals until I read the full articles.

    These are the "We're going to fill the O2 Arena with paedophiles and introduce a very drunk and very sexy six year old girl every fifteen seconds until 2016" proposals which "leak" and everyone is outraged and disgusted and froths at the mouth.

    These are followed a few weeks later by the "We're going to fill the O2 Arena with paedophiles and introduce a very drunk and very sexy six year old girl every fifteen weeks until 2016" and people are annoyed. Some froth is let out.

    Then, when the time comes to announce the real policy, the story becomes "We're going to fill the O2 Arena with paedophiles and introduce a very drunk and very sexy fifteen year old girl and keep her there until she is sixteen. Please vote for us." and everyone thinks "Oh, that's not so bad. Remember what they said before?" while ignoring the fact that the idea is still fundamentally abhorrent.

    Welcome to politics.
    You give them far too much credit. They really are genuine ideas. They are that out of touch and moronic. The frothing makes them back down.
  • Chopsen 28 May 2013 21:27:29 15,176 posts
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    oconnomiyaki wrote:
    @MIckelsenWhiteLTD I'm kind of concerned you called a six-year-old sexy when making that point. :/
    Actually, he said the government called a six year old sexy.
  • FWB 28 May 2013 21:28:24 41,943 posts
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    However, what I particularly dislike is the suggestion of commercial courts subsidising criminal courts through vastly increased fees for litigants, citing Abramovich as an example. What a weaselly statement. A 'litigant' will also include those being sued by the likes of Abramovich, which means those without a lot of money will find themselves in even more dire financial straits. Still, at least this will attract more libel tourism and more profit for the eventual court owners. Ker-ching!
    I really dread the awful path this will go down. The claims culture is bad now, but can you imagine it under this? Horrific.
  • senso-ji 28 May 2013 21:35:44 5,314 posts
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    If the number of civil litigations increase exponentially under the new proposals then the system will collapse on itself. So many cases will lead to more efforts to recoup costs and fines that the system will start haemorrhaging money.

    Edited by senso-ji at 21:36:12 28-05-2013
  • MIckelsenWhiteLTD 28 May 2013 21:55:12 57 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    oconnomiyaki wrote:
    @MIckelsenWhiteLTD I'm kind of concerned you called a six-year-old sexy when making that point. :/
    Actually, he said the government called a six year old sexy.
    I was screamingly outraged by oconnomiyaki's comment until I read the reply.
  • Deleted user 28 May 2013 22:09:39
    Government cuts legal aid so badly that people can't get any legal advice or representation in the vast majority of cases where it is most needed. Then privatise the courts so hedge funds can monopolise on this. I've lived my life conveniently detached from politics but on a weekly basis the tories make me so fucking angry with this idiocy it just pulls me in. I hope these announcements make people who voted the tories in pretty fucking embarrassed and ashamed. Utterly awful.
  • mcmothercruncher 28 May 2013 22:10:03 5,723 posts
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    Yeah, I know some glaringly mahoosive character flaws stopped him being able to share his toys whilst in power, but I still maintain, stabbed car seats aside, Gordon Brown is a decent man.
  • spamdangled 28 May 2013 22:16:34 27,197 posts
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    mcmothercruncher wrote:
    Yeah, I know some glaringly mahoosive character flaws stopped him being able to share his toys whilst in power, but I still maintain, stabbed car seats aside, Gordon Brown is a decent man.
    That's actually very bloody decent.

    Can't imagine a single member of the Tory front bench doing that, let alone Cameron.

    Shame that Tony Blair has well and truly got his hands dirty in very corrupt dictatorships since he left...

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  • RobTheBuilder 28 May 2013 22:17:12 6,521 posts
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    @senso-ji the Tory plan is to dismantle the entire public sector and hand it to companies they invest in or will have directorships at. It's a fucking travesty. This country should be a laughing stock
  • spamdangled 28 May 2013 22:17:34 27,197 posts
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    mowgli wrote:
    I hope these announcements make people who voted the tories in pretty fucking embarrassed and ashamed.
    True, but to be honest I'm amazed that anyone expected anything different from them in the first place.

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  • spamdangled 28 May 2013 22:17:48 27,197 posts
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    RobTheBuilder wrote:
    @senso-ji the Tory plan is to dismantle the entire public sector and hand it to companies they invest in or will have directorships at. It's a fucking travesty. This country should be a laughing stock
    It is.

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