The UK General Politics Thread Page 108

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  • Mr_Sleep 20 May 2013 14:50:22 17,221 posts
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    RedSparrows wrote:
    This is one of the funny things about 'PC'. In reacting against control, real or perceived, there's another set of rules that are put in place/slid in, awkwardly, next to the set of rules that draws antagonism. I know what you mean, Mr_Sleep, and I probably agree with you. But you 'can't say that' for fear of being PC! The irony would be troubling if this wasn't such a minor case.
    I think Stewart Lee summed it up pretty well when he said something along the lines of political correctness being the idea of just not trying to offend people. It is taken to extremes by idiots both ways but the principle of taking people's feelings into account when using language is not that difficult to grasp or be part of.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • Mr_Sleep 20 May 2013 14:52:43 17,221 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    What would you use?
    Well that is a good question, I don't know, I tend to use heterosexual/homosexual but for casual conversation I'm not sure. I just had this thought about it last night while watching 10 o'clock live so I haven't had much time to consider it.

    Edited by Mr_Sleep at 14:53:58 20-05-2013

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • Deleted user 20 May 2013 14:55:39
    There are a few mods on here that would probably take offence to the term.
  • mcmonkeyplc 20 May 2013 14:58:54 39,471 posts
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    Is there something wrong with gay and not gay?

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • chopsen 20 May 2013 15:03:22 16,127 posts
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    Would "not gay" include bisexual or not?

    We need a Venn diagram, stat.
  • chopsen 20 May 2013 15:08:35 16,127 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    I mean, honestly, who cares? Just let them marry for fucks sake, what difference does it make to anyone else?
    Old people who vote conservative, apparently.

    Though yeah, as a matter for debate I think let the gays marry, how is that going to hurt anyone? Ideologies may get slightly bruised but if that matters that much to you then tough titties, the world doesn't work in the way the the mock-Victorian fantasy land in their head does.
  • Mr_Sleep 20 May 2013 15:10:33 17,221 posts
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    I agree too but then I have no religious affiliation and hold no belief in the sanctity of marriage. Divorce figures suggest that's true for much of the population too!

    I say let anyone who wants to get married and be unhappy do so.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • mcmonkeyplc 20 May 2013 15:13:13 39,471 posts
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    @Chopsen Yes, I don't see the problem in that.

    Edited by mcmonkeyplc at 15:13:38 20-05-2013

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • chopsen 20 May 2013 15:24:29 16,127 posts
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    Well, then you'd need a way to distinguish bi and not-gay and not-bi. Calling people formally known as straight as not-gay not-bi seems a bit of a mouthfull.
  • mcmonkeyplc 20 May 2013 15:27:04 39,471 posts
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    hetro and gay.

    We can have a civil war over it if you want. :p

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Dougs 20 May 2013 15:30:07 68,545 posts
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    My guess is that they will only be able to use legally defined terms - probably those already set out in other equalities legislation.
  • Commander-Keen 20 May 2013 15:32:31 822 posts
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    Right right - so am I hearing the Tories correctly here?

    "Gay marriage is a distraction when we should be focusing on the economy. Now, about that EU referendum..."

    /facepalm
  • nickthegun 20 May 2013 15:39:17 60,618 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    nickthegun wrote:
    I mean, honestly, who cares? Just let them marry for fucks sake, what difference does it make to anyone else?
    Old people who vote conservative, apparently.
    The thing is they are, by all accounts, an incredibly small portion of the population. In the US, im led to believe most of the population are either in favour or flat out do not care. Its such a non-issue.

    The obvious thing would seem to be allow gays full marriage privileges but then, unfortunately, allow churches to discriminate against them. Then everyones happy. Anyone who cares can NIMBY their local church and the more progressive ones will allow it.

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  • spamdangled 20 May 2013 15:39:23 27,417 posts
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    Commander Keen wrote:
    Right right - so am I hearing the Tories correctly here?

    "Gay marriage is a distraction when we should be focusing on the economy. Now, about that EU referendum..."

    /facepalm
    That's pretty much it :D

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  • spamdangled 20 May 2013 15:41:13 27,417 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    Chopsen wrote:
    nickthegun wrote:
    I mean, honestly, who cares? Just let them marry for fucks sake, what difference does it make to anyone else?
    Old people who vote conservative, apparently.
    The thing is they are, by all accounts, an incredibly small portion of the population. In the US, im led to believe most of the population are either in favour or flat out do not care. Its such a non-issue.

    The obvious thing would seem to be allow gays full marriage privileges but then, unfortunately, allow churches to discriminate against them.
    That's basically what the Gay Marriage bill is. Gay people will be allowed to get married, religious institutions will have to Opt-in to be allowed to perform gay weddings and are granted a quadruple-lock protection against any attempt at bringing discrimination action against them.

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  • mcmonkeyplc 20 May 2013 15:50:56 39,471 posts
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    Can an MP, preferably my MP Mr Cable, Please stand up and shout: "ARE YOU AWARE THAT THE EU AND THE USA ARE IN NEGOTIATIONS TO FORM A FREE TRADE AREA?" ARE YOU ALSO AWARE THAT NOT BEING PART OF THE EU WILL MEAN WE WONT BE PART OF THIS?"

    Also preferably he says this in Caps lock too.

    Edited by mcmonkeyplc at 15:51:53 20-05-2013

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Deleted user 20 May 2013 16:01:06
    The only fucking thing to be changed with the gay marriage debate is the name. That is it. The quicker someone just says fuck it this is a big fuss over nothing and changes the law the quicker we can get back to being unnecessarily and over defensive of our position in Europe.

    Edited by mowgli at 18:00:40 20-05-2013
  • spamdangled 20 May 2013 16:06:18 27,417 posts
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    mowgli wrote:
    The only fucking thing to be changed with the gay marriage debate is the name. That is it
    It's really not that simplistic.

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  • Deleted user 20 May 2013 16:11:33
    It really is. CPs are as identical as can be.
  • spamdangled 20 May 2013 16:12:53 27,417 posts
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    mowgli wrote:
    It really is. CPs are as identical as can be.
    When you fill out any form asking for your marital status, gay people in a civil partnership need to signpost their sexuality by stating they are in a civil partnership. That opens up a whole barrel of worms in itself.

    And if you need to give something a different name to single out that it is different, it isn't equality.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 16:14:12 20-05-2013

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  • TheSaint 20 May 2013 16:13:19 14,635 posts
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    I lost interest in the whole gay marriage debate when they decided to give the CoE and other religions the means to get out of doing them.
  • spamdangled 20 May 2013 16:15:46 27,417 posts
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    TheSaint wrote:
    I lost interest in the whole gay marriage debate when they decided to give the CoE and other religions the means to get out of doing them.
    That annoyed me too. It's one of the reasons I really want complete separation of church and state, because the COE has far too much influence over politics. However, at least the way it's being done takes away their ability to whinge about it (well, in theory).

    I only found out yesterday that the Catholic Church even has a parliamentary whip, ffs.

    When churches can use whips to tell MPs what to do, there's something really wrong.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 16:16:41 20-05-2013

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  • Mr_Sleep 20 May 2013 16:17:05 17,221 posts
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    I actually think it's fair enough to allow the CoE to opt out considering it would go against Christian teachings. Religion and state should be separated and that is true the other way. Enforcing a religious organisation to partake in gay marriage just seems a bit too draconian.

    What surprises me the most is the fact that that Catholic church are blinded to the massive money spinning potential of gay marriage. Seems very unlike them to miss an opportunity to make bundles of cash.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • Deleted user 20 May 2013 16:20:50
    darkmorgado wrote:
    mowgli wrote:
    It really is. CPs are as identical as can be.
    When you fill out any form asking for your marital status, gay people in a civil partnership need to signpost their sexuality by stating they are in a civil partnership. That opens up a whole barrel of worms in itself.

    And if you need to give something a different name to single out that it is different, it isn't equality.
    Yeah, that doesn't have anything to do what I am saying. I said they should just change it as all it is at this point is a change of name. Which you have basically just shown to be the case.
  • TheRealBadabing 20 May 2013 16:28:17 1,329 posts
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    Mr_Sleep wrote:
    I actually think it's fair enough to allow the CoE to opt out considering it would go against Old Testament teachings.
    Fixed that for you. Even in the OT, it is barely mentioned and I think the bits about not eating prawns get more airtime. The guy that "Christianity" is meant to be based on seemed to have a pretty liberal outlook.
  • spamdangled 20 May 2013 16:35:07 27,417 posts
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    The debate has just started and... WHAT A SURPRISE! Peter Bone, one of the most notorious homophobes in the Tories, is already complaining.

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  • spamdangled 20 May 2013 16:36:04 27,417 posts
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    mowgli wrote:
    darkmorgado wrote:
    mowgli wrote:
    It really is. CPs are as identical as can be.
    When you fill out any form asking for your marital status, gay people in a civil partnership need to signpost their sexuality by stating they are in a civil partnership. That opens up a whole barrel of worms in itself.

    And if you need to give something a different name to single out that it is different, it isn't equality.
    Yeah, that doesn't have anything to do what I am saying. I said they should just change it as all it is at this point is a change of name. Which you have basically just shown to be the case.
    If that's the case then I apologise, it sort of came across that you were opposed to legislation, not to the amount of hand-wringing going on over it.

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  • RobTheBuilder 20 May 2013 16:37:30 6,521 posts
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    I thought Nigel Farage's letter today was quite interesting.

    https://twitter.com/FamousRob/status/336505524935852032/photo/1

    Edited by RobTheBuilder at 16:37:41 20-05-2013
  • Mr_Sleep 20 May 2013 16:37:33 17,221 posts
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    TheRealBadabing wrote:
    Mr_Sleep wrote:
    I actually think it's fair enough to allow the CoE to opt out considering it would go against Old Testament teachings.
    Fixed that for you. Even in the OT, it is barely mentioned and I think the bits about not eating prawns get more airtime. The guy that "Christianity" is meant to be based on seemed to have a pretty liberal outlook.
    Yeah, I agree. I possibly should have been more clear when I said teachings. I wasn't referring to the Bible, I was referring to the interpretation that has been taken from it. I've always been intrigued to know what influenced the anti-homosexuality in Christianity since the Greeks and the Romans had no problem with it. I assume it's part of the rebellion away from their values.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • spamdangled 20 May 2013 16:38:04 27,417 posts
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    TheRealBadabing wrote:
    Mr_Sleep wrote:
    I actually think it's fair enough to allow the CoE to opt out considering it would go against Old Testament teachings.
    Fixed that for you. Even in the OT, it is barely mentioned and I think the bits about not eating prawns get more airtime. The guy that "Christianity" is meant to be based on seemed to have a pretty liberal outlook.
    This is correct. It's mentioned in a single sentence amidst reams of equally ludicrous (and often far more exhaustively detailed) stuff about what fabrics you are and are not allowed to wear, what day it is and is not acceptable to eat certain foods, etc.

    I don't remember this amount of whining from the religions when shops were allowed to open on Sundays.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 16:39:38 20-05-2013

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