The UK General Politics Thread Page 107

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  • Deleted user 19 May 2013 11:02:33
    @RedSparrows

    All of it. The infrastructure of all cities are under pressure already. With new arrives from abroad and births it causes more pressure. People want to start families, no problems there, but we can (or should) control immigration.
  • spamdangled 20 May 2013 12:12:05 27,355 posts
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    So in a desperate and transparent attempt to sabotage Gay Marriage, there's a debate and vote on the issue today after an anti-gay Tory tabled an amendment to extend civil partnerships to heterosexual couples. This will delay the bill by up to 5 years, effectively kicking it into the long grass.

    I'm all for extending civil partnerships to straight people, but this is just an utterly blatant attempt to make the whole damn thing go away from the more homophobic parts of the Tory back bench.

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  • Waffleaber 20 May 2013 12:18:17 413 posts
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    It's very odd. They're pretending it's entirely reasonable when the reasonable thing to do would be to pass it as a separate law.
  • spamdangled 20 May 2013 12:22:13 27,355 posts
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    That's my thinking too. If the Tories backing this amendment REALLY wanted both, they'd let Gay Marriage go through and then push for an amendment to the civil partnership act.

    Another way of doing it which wouldn't delay the bill at all - which was just mentioned on BBC News - would be for the government to introduce an amendment to the existing bill during its next reading in the Lords. This wouldn't delay the bill in the slightest.

    The phrase "beware opponents bearing gifts" was made by one LD about the Tory backbench amendment.

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  • spamdangled 20 May 2013 12:48:15 27,355 posts
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    Glol!

    The Tories who introduced this amendment just said they think that giving civil partnerships to heterosexual couples will solidify family bonds and strengthen society by helping to prevent family breakdown.

    The reasons for opposing Civil Partnership when it was introduced? They said it would weaken society, weaken family and lead to more family breakdowns.

    Amazing U-turn.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 12:53:50 20-05-2013

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  • RedSparrows 20 May 2013 13:06:25 22,735 posts
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    That's not a u-turn, it's standard ideological inconsistency.
  • Deleted user 20 May 2013 13:10:36
    How many issues are they going to do this with? first the EU and now this. What a spineless bunch they are.

    Edited by Rec at 13:12:19 20-05-2013
  • RedSparrows 20 May 2013 13:14:53 22,735 posts
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    What do you mean, Rec?

    Edited by RedSparrows at 13:15:33 20-05-2013
  • cubbymoore 20 May 2013 13:24:38 36,496 posts
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    They'll do it on every issue except the economy.
  • spamdangled 20 May 2013 13:27:54 27,355 posts
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    Rec wrote:
    How many issues are they going to do this with? first the EU and now this. What a spineless bunch they are.
    Welcome to the Tories, Rec.

    Always pushing the self-destruct button.

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  • Deleted user 20 May 2013 13:32:34
    darkmorgado wrote:
    Rec wrote:
    How many issues are they going to do this with? first the EU and now this. What a spineless bunch they are.
    Welcome to the Tories, Rec.

    Always pushing the self-destruct button.
    We're in an odd situation at the moment. Tories are rubbish and so are Labour...
  • Megapocalypse 20 May 2013 13:34:26 5,427 posts
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    That's not odd. It's how is been for as long as politics began. :p
  • Deleted user 20 May 2013 13:36:37
    True, but they seem to be getting even more barren as of late.
  • Chopsen 20 May 2013 13:50:12 15,999 posts
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    In 10 to 50 years time someone will look at marriage vs civil partnerships and say "there is no sense in having these separate, it would simplify the law/tax/my life if we amalgamated both in to one" and then it won't matter.

    For now, there are too many traditionalists who don't want marriage being all gayed up.
  • Mr_Sleep 20 May 2013 13:54:41 17,074 posts
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    As much as it seems myopic you can see why it is such a difficult issue to finally put to bed as it's been a very swift change from homosexuality being (somewhat) accepted in British culture to the point where there's even a discussion regarding marriage. The fact that it's so close to being completely legal is genuinely quite surprising.

    I'd quite like civil partnership to be in place for heterosexuals but I can see how this amendment is just pure politicking.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • spamdangled 20 May 2013 13:57:15 27,355 posts
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    Mr_Sleep wrote:
    As much as it seems myopic you can see why it is such a difficult issue to finally put to bed as it's been a very swift change from homosexuality being (somewhat) accepted in British culture to the point where there's even a discussion regarding marriage. The fact that it's so close to being completely legal is genuinely quite surprising.

    I'd quite like civil partnership to be in place for heterosexuals but I can see how this amendment is just pure politicking.
    Completely agree, to be honest. It's the right amendment for entirely the wrong reasons.

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  • spamdangled 20 May 2013 13:59:42 27,355 posts
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    It also amazes me that the Tories backing it said that Gay Marriage "isn't an equality issue at all", but giving straight people access to civil partnerships IS.

    So it's only equality if it it favours straight people, eh?

    Total hypocrisy.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 14:00:18 20-05-2013

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  • Chopsen 20 May 2013 14:04:03 15,999 posts
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    It's trying to keep people happy across a range of opinions. When those opinions are mutually exclusive, it's hardly surprising that the solutions are seen as a fudge.
  • Chopsen 20 May 2013 14:05:35 15,999 posts
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    Or put another way: any party in modern Britain that stuck vehemently to their values and ideals no matter what automatically render themselves a minority party.

    (which s what is happening to the old school Conservatives, and why Cameron got given the job of modernising them)
  • spamdangled 20 May 2013 14:07:05 27,355 posts
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    Christ. Now Labour have tabled a counter-amendment to the Tory amendment calling for an immediate consultation on opening up civil partnership.

    This is turning into a total clusterfuck :(

    The central issue is being lost amidst politicking and opportunism and I am utterly losing faith now that it will ever come into effect.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 14:08:18 20-05-2013

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  • Mr_Sleep 20 May 2013 14:23:58 17,074 posts
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    I'm not sure I am comfortable with the constant references made by many to the word straight, it's kind of like suggesting that homosexuality is bent in some way. Gay and straight seem like words used from a time of less acceptance. I know not everyone feels comfortable using the more scientific style of language but the term straight is starting to sit uncomfortably with me. Quick, call the PC brigade! ;-)

    What is really needed in the amendment situation is a public enquiry! ;-)

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • spamdangled 20 May 2013 14:27:23 27,355 posts
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    The word "bent" was reclaimed by the gay community.

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  • Mr_Sleep 20 May 2013 14:29:59 17,074 posts
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    I'm suggesting that the term straight no longer really makes sense and the inference of "straight" suggests that homosexuality is still wrong in some way. I'm just being a bit overly PC.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • mcmonkeyplc 20 May 2013 14:32:53 39,457 posts
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    I don't give a shit about gays or marriage. Sort out the fucking economy you donkey fuckers.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • RedSparrows 20 May 2013 14:35:13 22,735 posts
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    This is one of the funny things about 'PC'. In reacting against control, real or perceived, there's another set of rules that are put in place/slid in, awkwardly, next to the set of rules that draws antagonism. I know what you mean, Mr_Sleep, and I probably agree with you. But you 'can't say that' for fear of being PC! The irony would be troubling if this wasn't such a minor case.
  • Chopsen 20 May 2013 14:36:52 15,999 posts
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    I think you're getting your knickers in a twist over the word "straight." I don't think anybody would really take offence at the use of that word...would they?
  • spamdangled 20 May 2013 14:37:41 27,355 posts
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    Interesting. The speaker has just given notice that an MP's parliamentary office was yesterday searched by police investigating a serious arrestable criminal offence.

    ATOS now being discussed in Work and Pensions Questions. Specficially, that the entire assessment process is biased against claimants.

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  • nickthegun 20 May 2013 14:43:05 59,937 posts
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    I really offended my brothers very PC girlfriend when I said that I 'couldnt give a fuck about the gay marriage issue'.

    She took that to mean that I didnt care about gay rights when i actually meant that it doesnt even register as an issue on my radar, such is the utter idiocy of objecting to it in this day and age.

    Its just one of those stupid things british politicians have seized on after seeing how great it is for distracting the great american public. There have been so many column inches devoted to this, frankly, non-issues that its just embarrassing.

    I mean, honestly, who cares? Just let them marry for fucks sake, what difference does it make to anyone else?

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  • Mr_Sleep 20 May 2013 14:47:23 17,074 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    I think you're getting your knickers in a twist over the word "straight." I don't think anybody would really take offence at the use of that word...would they?
    No, indeed, no one would be offended by the word, it just has a connotation and implication to it that seems a bit old fashioned. It implies that homosexuals are something "other".

    It's not a big deal at all and no one gives a shit but I think the language used around these issues can sometimes seem archaic and the use of straight, I feel, has a whiff of us-and-them about it.

    Edited by Mr_Sleep at 14:48:06 20-05-2013

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • nickthegun 20 May 2013 14:48:53 59,937 posts
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    What would you use?

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