The UK General Politics Thread Page 85

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  • Mr_Sleep 20 Mar 2013 14:36:54 17,062 posts
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    Hah, cut that one off at the pass, I see :-) I'm more interested to know whether this dip is a standard one post recession and that things will cycle up and growth will happen or whether the lack of growth is more concerned with a sea change in the way people approach consuming goods. A lot people have been hurt by the situation with credit and home owning is in a pretty bad state. Pensions are probably going to cease to exist as a government backed initiative within 20 years so I guess my question is as to whether things are turning a corner towards a return to the normal operation or whether it's turning towards something better, different or worse?

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • RobTheBuilder 20 Mar 2013 14:38:06 6,521 posts
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    Mr_Sleep wrote:
    rudedudejude wrote:
    The shale gas move is just an invitation to bring big US business to the UK and see all revenues being sent abroad, through some fiddled tax arrangements no doubt. While making the earth shake. Woop!
    It's so incredibly short sighted and wrong, I'd be very surprised if Osborne isn't getting ready for his career after steering the UK ship into the rocks.
    They have high paid directorships at oil and gas companies waiting for them. Along with a tax cut.

    The government in this country is sickening. Bring on the next election.
  • mcmonkeyplc 20 Mar 2013 14:49:40 39,456 posts
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    Mr_Sleep wrote:
    Hah, cut that one off at the pass, I see :-) I'm more interested to know whether this dip is a standard one post recession and that things will cycle up and growth will happen or whether the lack of growth is more concerned with a sea change in the way people approach consuming goods. A lot people have been hurt by the situation with credit and home owning is in a pretty bad state. Pensions are probably going to cease to exist as a government backed initiative within 20 years so I guess my question is as to whether things are turning a corner towards a return to the normal operation or whether it's turning towards something better, different or worse?
    The dips have been going on 5 years now. We may be into a triple dip recession at the end of this quarter/next quarter.

    We're moving away from normal corrective recession into a stagnation territory now. The kind that it is very hard to steer out of.

    If people carry on expecting things to get shit and stay shit their habits will change to cope with it. People just save all their money, spend as little as possible and the economy gets stuck in a rut. Our major trading partners are in a mess as well.

    Apparently though George just cares about saving our triple A rating...cutting our debt... he's failed at both of those. Making sure we can borrow cheaply, we can do that already without out cherished AAA rating that no one gives a shit about any more.

    He's very unlucky as a chancellor but he's also far too stubborn for me to feel sorry for him. The cut in the credit rating and the lack of impact should've been a wake up call to him. He just didn't listen.

    Edited by mcmonkeyplc at 14:50:25 20-03-2013

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • President_Weasel 20 Mar 2013 15:08:07 9,302 posts
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    "We're all in this together" in order to slash the debt and keep our cherished triple A rating - except we've lost the triple A rating, and debt as a percentage of GDP is going up, because (as a surprise to almost no-one) the economy has been fucked into a cocked hat by savage cuts, lack of employment, and lack of consumer confidence.

    John Maynard Keynes must be spinning in his grave.

    Maybe we could spend some public money on a massive mad science project to bring him back to some twisted semblance of life? John Maynard Zombie Cyborg Keynes for chancellor - he'd get my vote.

    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    Let's not get into the growth for the sake of growth argument either.
    I'll do you a "growth for the sake of having a debt that's a smaller percentage of a larger GDP" argument if you like?

    Edited by President_Weasel at 15:11:47 20-03-2013
  • Khanivor 20 Mar 2013 15:17:27 40,741 posts
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    If your country has a revenue problem then maybe bringing in a new industry and taxing it might help. Or you could rely on taxing rich people some more.

    Oil and gas makes the UK a ton of money. If your primary economic complaint is that the profits are shipped overseas then you should check out who has been doing this work for the last 40 years.
  • mcmonkeyplc 20 Mar 2013 15:18:07 39,456 posts
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    Mr President, I concur with your growth for the sake of having a debt that's a smaller percentage of a larger GDP argument.

    Proceed :)

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • spamdangled 20 Mar 2013 15:20:13 27,355 posts
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    Mr_Sleep wrote:
    Wow, 1p off the cost of a pint. It's like we're living in some kind of utopia. This is sure to make me run out and prop up the bar and the economy.
    It's not just a cancellation for this year - it's permanent. He's stopped the increase for Beer duty permanently.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • mcmonkeyplc 20 Mar 2013 15:20:19 39,456 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    If your country has a revenue problem then maybe bringing in a new industry and taxing it might help. Or you could rely on taxing rich people some more.

    Oil and gas makes the UK a ton of money. If your primary economic complaint is that the profits are shipped overseas then you should check out who has been doing this work for the last 40 years.
    I think only one person has expressed that opinion so far.

    We do need to make sure that mr Yankee fracker doesn't expect us to abide by their crappy regulations though. We need to be far more strict than the US government on the environmental responsibilities of frackers.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • spamdangled 20 Mar 2013 15:23:45 27,355 posts
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    sajasanman wrote:
    faux_carnation wrote:
    Labour's failure to vote against the new Workfare bill is one of the singularly most depressing political events I can remember.

    The only reason this bill exists to further screw workless people out of money they are legally owed for illegally being forced to take unpaid work. If the main party of opposition are incapable of facing down the Tory cunts on this and standing up for the poorest and most disenfranchised people in the country, then what the fuck is this thing we call democracy in this country?

    Don't get me wrong, when the Tory cunts and their Quisling allies are cast out of power and Labour comes back in, I'll be dancing in the streets just like everyone else, but this spineless shit they've pulled today will not be forgotten.
    The idea of giving back money they stole from the unemployed would turn a conservatives stomach and keep them up at night.
    I thought the workfare thing had already been delcared illegal by the courts? Wasn't there a thing the other month where a student won her case that she had a right to be paid for the unpaid work she had been forced to perform by the state?

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • mcmonkeyplc 20 Mar 2013 15:26:15 39,456 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    Mr_Sleep wrote:
    Wow, 1p off the cost of a pint. It's like we're living in some kind of utopia. This is sure to make me run out and prop up the bar and the economy.
    It's not just a cancellation for this year - it's permanent. He's stopped the increase for Beer duty permanently.
    WOW!The 33% of it that's tax already? We have to deal with.

    Edited by mcmonkeyplc at 15:26:52 20-03-2013

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Dougs 20 Mar 2013 15:28:35 67,688 posts
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    Hasn't he just axed the duty calculator that dictated how much duty should increase by? That's not to say him or any Chancellor in the future can't increase alcohol duty.
  • mcmonkeyplc 20 Mar 2013 15:31:44 39,456 posts
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    I'm hoping he won't be the Chancellor next year.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Mr_Sleep 20 Mar 2013 15:35:27 17,062 posts
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    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    We're moving away from normal corrective recession into a stagnation territory now. The kind that it is very hard to steer out of.
    I worry that we might end up ceasing up completely. The way things are going it does seem entirely possible. The thing is, at that point there you have to hope there is another round of voodoo economics to pull us all out of it.


    Apparently though George just cares about saving our triple A rating...cutting our debt... he's failed at both of those. Making sure we can borrow cheaply, we can do that already without out cherished AAA rating that no one gives a shit about any more.

    Is that true though, has there really been such a shift in the perception of the rating agencies? I do hope that is the case as they have proven themselves to be nothing more than con artists, if what I've read about the collapse is anything to go by.


    He's very unlucky as a chancellor but he's also far too stubborn for me to feel sorry for him. The cut in the credit rating and the lack of impact should've been a wake up call to him. He just didn't listen.

    That's his core problem, instead of accepting a plan hasn't worked he just keeps trying to pretend all is going to be fine. His budgets have been one disaster after the next, we're so worried about big business departing this shore but with the current state of things they'll be gone soon anyway.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • Mr_Sleep 20 Mar 2013 15:37:49 17,062 posts
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    Dougs wrote:
    Hasn't he just axed the duty calculator that dictated how much duty should increase by? That's not to say him or any Chancellor in the future can't increase alcohol duty.
    That's exactly my thinking, it's permanent for another couple of years until the next chancellor comes in, or it's permanent until the next budget when the PR exercise of doing it no longer has any purpose. That, I feel, is the epitaph of this government; PR exercises that seem to be more negative than positive.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • spamdangled 20 Mar 2013 15:47:20 27,355 posts
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    What? I though you couldn't retroactively change the law?

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  • mcmonkeyplc 20 Mar 2013 15:49:35 39,456 posts
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    @Mr_Sleep

    I wouldn't worry about the economy ceasing up completely just yet, I'm not even sure what that would entail. We're just not growing, services are being cut and real income is falling. A complete collapse would involve millions becoming unemployed and somehow we have managed to avoid that.

    In regards to the rating cut, the cost of borrowing for us didn't change that much at all. There was no massive run on the pound, although the exchange rate did get worse. So the markets already expected it anyway.

    As you say the ratings agencies were part of the problem in the first place, so why place so much stock in what they say?

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Mr_Sleep 20 Mar 2013 15:57:20 17,062 posts
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    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    @Mr_Sleep

    I wouldn't worry about the economy ceasing up completely just yet, I'm not even sure what that would entail. We're just not growing, services are being cut and real income is falling. A complete collapse would involve millions becoming unemployed and somehow we have managed to avoid that.
    Indeed we have, there's an interesting article here about stagflation. Fortunately our inflation is not too bad and employment is under control. How long it stays that way is difficult to predict. I have seen a definite drop off in available jobs and despite having ten years work experience I am just not finding much to apply for.

    In regards to the rating cut, the cost of borrowing for us didn't change that much at all. There was no massive run on the pound, although the exchange rate did get worse. So the markets already expected it anyway.

    As you say the ratings agencies were part of the problem in the first place, so why place so much stock in what they say?

    Exactly, I find it bizarre that they are even being considered in these conversations. I do wonder if the media are just using it as a convenient tool to bash the government with, I wonder if the people who actually make decisions have largely started ignoring them.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • DaM 20 Mar 2013 16:00:33 13,157 posts
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    Nobody actually thinks they will see a decrease in the cost of a pint do they?
    A penny rise in duty would have seen a rise of several pence though...everyone always finds an excuse to add it, whether they pay duty or not :)

    I'm still bitter from the time a 2.5% rise in VAT cost LPs to go from 6 to 7 overnight. "It's the VAT". No it bloody wasn't!
  • mcmonkeyplc 20 Mar 2013 16:06:29 39,456 posts
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    I won't even fucking notice if the price goes down by anything less than 10p.

    Most people don't price to the nearest 1p, I've never paid 3.63 for a pint before. :)

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Dougs 20 Mar 2013 16:09:39 67,688 posts
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    Don't drink in many Sam Smiths pubs then?!
  • Mr_Sleep 20 Mar 2013 16:12:46 17,062 posts
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    Sam Smiths seem to have buggered their pricing structure, the various ones I've had a drink in in recent times have been pretty much standard London. I'm less inclined to go there now considering the cheapness was pretty much the main attraction.

    I also don't think that the cost of a pint really influences most people as to how much their going to drink in a pub. Unless you're properly skint you'll always get that extra pint if you want it.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • mcmonkeyplc 20 Mar 2013 16:15:58 39,456 posts
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    Dougs wrote:
    Don't drink in many Sam Smiths pubs then?!
    Oh I do...did. As Mr Sleep has pointed out they have fucked their prices now.

    A pint at The Chandos near Trafalgar square costs 4 now. They can go fuck themselves. It's the same price everywhere else :(

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • whatfruit 20 Mar 2013 16:19:32 1,493 posts
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    The beer thing is something that has been due to be scapped for a long time and it will not help the pub trade because they have dying on their arse before the crash and the present state of affairs is just accelerating this.

    You won't see a reduction in beer prices either. what happens when the price of crude oil goes down? do you see a drop in oil and gas prices? Not bloody likely.

    Like George Osbourne the Budget was a bit limp wristed. Good news for big binness with promises of beer today and jam tommorow for the plebbos. With rumours rumbling that members of his own party are looking to take out the EA PR machine that is David Cameron, I would be suprised if the Selfridges towel folder was still in the cabinet by the end of the year.
  • Dougs 20 Mar 2013 16:23:15 67,688 posts
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    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    Dougs wrote:
    Don't drink in many Sam Smiths pubs then?!
    Oh I do...did. As Mr Sleep has pointed out they have fucked their prices now.

    A pint at The Chandos near Trafalgar square costs 4 now. They can go fuck themselves. It's the same price everywhere else :(
    What?! Been a while since I've been in one, so I agree. The beer is dreadful but at least it was cheap!
  • mcmonkeyplc 20 Mar 2013 16:30:06 39,456 posts
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    @Dougs

    Indeed I was there late last month for the first time in ages and when the Bar maid yapped 4 please I nearly passed out!

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Mr_Sleep 20 Mar 2013 16:39:14 17,062 posts
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    It seems strange too, I can understand why Fullers and people of that nature have a hiked up price but considering Sam Smiths stuff is generally own brand you'd think they could maintain lower prices. From what I've heard they may well be on the way out and the hike has been related to that.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • mcmothercruncher 20 Mar 2013 19:19:20 7,069 posts
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    You're all way too cynical- George is taking this very seriously.

    Only two skiing trips to Klosters this year instead of three.
  • RelaxedMikki 20 Mar 2013 19:33:23 929 posts
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    Oozy Osbourne.

    That's what I am calling him now.

    There's just something oozy about George. Something slimy. Something, puss filled. A swelling throbbing boil, waiting to be squeezed by greasy fingers.

    I aint gettin' on his Crazy Train.
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