The UK General Politics Thread Page 83

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  • LeoliansBro 15 Mar 2013 11:53:13 44,506 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    LIberal Conservative alliance makes zero ideological sense. The Lib Dems are an offshoot of the Labour party, for a start (a whiny, flappy handed offshoot).
    Eh?

    The Liberals precede the Labour party by a good few hundred years.
    Liberals do (and the Whigs before them). Lib Dems as a modern party started in the late seventies.

    But I'm sure you knew that, as a member yourself.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • imamazed 15 Mar 2013 11:55:39 5,791 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    darkmorgado wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    LIberal Conservative alliance makes zero ideological sense. The Lib Dems are an offshoot of the Labour party, for a start (a whiny, flappy handed offshoot).
    Eh?

    The Liberals precede the Labour party by a good few hundred years.
    Liberals do (and the Whigs before them). Lib Dems as a modern party started in the late seventies.

    But I'm sure you knew that, as a member yourself.
    And actually the Liberal party only predate the labour part by abour 35-40 years. (although granted the whig party before them is the oldest of them all)
  • glaeken 15 Mar 2013 11:57:02 11,221 posts
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    I think Labour probably are less out right evil than the Tories. It's definitely the case of the lesser of two weevils though. The Lib dems maybe even less evil but they are screwed after their pact with the devil for the foreseeable future.

    Edited by glaeken at 11:57:20 15-03-2013
  • spamdangled 15 Mar 2013 11:58:21 27,413 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    darkmorgado wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    LIberal Conservative alliance makes zero ideological sense. The Lib Dems are an offshoot of the Labour party, for a start (a whiny, flappy handed offshoot).
    Eh?

    The Liberals precede the Labour party by a good few hundred years.
    Liberals do (and the Whigs before them). Lib Dems as a modern party started in the late seventies.

    But I'm sure you knew that, as a member yourself.
    Actually the modern incarnation, as a cementing of the SD-LP alliance, started in the late 80s. The SD party was an offshoot of Labour, true but the Liberals existed far longer than that.

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  • LeoliansBro 15 Mar 2013 11:58:48 44,506 posts
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    Lib Dems are a bit ideologically fuzzy in that they don't really stand for anything. Labout are for mutual support and centralised bureaucracy and acting in the common interest. Tories are for competition and individual determination and responsibility and a free market. Lib Dems are everyone else.

    What we really need is a party with a proper Liberal agenda.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • LeoliansBro 15 Mar 2013 11:59:16 44,506 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:

    Actually the modern incarnation, as a cementing of the SD-LP alliance, started in the late 80s. The SD party was an offshoot of Labour, true but the Liberals existed far longer than that.
    Yes, that's just exactly what I said.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • glaeken 15 Mar 2013 12:17:53 11,221 posts
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    Human nature really. Until we can stop humans from governing themselves we are pretty much doomed to more of the same.

    We have probably arrived at the best we can do and it turns out it's shit. Oh well at least we don't beat each others brains out for food to often.

    Edited by glaeken at 12:18:45 15-03-2013
  • whatfruit 15 Mar 2013 12:19:02 1,606 posts
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    Well a move to proportinal representaion election system would be a good start, it would allow the creation of viable alternative political parties for a start.

    bobomb wrote:
    so it's not really on her terms, it's on his terms, because she isn't real.

  • LeoliansBro 15 Mar 2013 12:30:26 44,506 posts
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    Public rejected the idea of PR quite recently, didn't they.

    And there are all sorts of other problems with it.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • imamazed 15 Mar 2013 12:32:18 5,791 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Public rejected the idea of PR quite recently, didn't they.

    .
    No, they rejected AV+, not the principal of PR
  • LeoliansBro 15 Mar 2013 12:33:22 44,506 posts
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    Bit hair-splitty that :p

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Khanivor 15 Mar 2013 12:33:23 40,944 posts
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    Like opening up a future of many more whinings like DM's, from members of minority parties coalesced to form a government, who can't handle that they aren't getting everything they want.
  • spamdangled 15 Mar 2013 12:37:48 27,413 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Public rejected the idea of PR quite recently, didn't they.

    And there are all sorts of other problems with it.
    They rejected AV, not PR.

    And only after being fed a whole load of bullshit from the Tories.

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  • LeoliansBro 15 Mar 2013 12:39:45 44,506 posts
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    On the plus side, it's a great time to get into politics. Public disenfranchisement, party dissent, directionless leadership and no clear endorsement of current policies either through a clear mandate to govern or a solid groundswell of public support.

    I'm off to found LB's Liberals. No tax under £15k! No access to public healthcare for higher rate taxpayers! Clear ringfencing of NHS funds and transparency of spending! An overhaul of the pension scheme and its partial replacement with free public services for pensioners! No 50% tax rate! Raising of stamp duty pegged to inflation to revamp the property market! Reduction in the armed forces focussed around the Navy and replacement of the nuclear deterrant with a rapid reaction task force!

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • spamdangled 15 Mar 2013 12:41:07 27,413 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    On the plus side, it's a great time to get into politics. Public disenfranchisement, party dissent, directionless leadership and no clear endorsement of current policies either through a clear mandate to govern or a solid groundswell of public support.

    I'm off to found LB's Liberals. No tax under £15k! No access to public healthcare for higher rate taxpayers! Clear ringfencing of NHS funds and transparency of spending! An overhaul of the pension scheme and its partial replacement with free public services for pensioners! No 50% tax rate! Raising of stamp duty pegged to inflation to revamp the property market! Reduction in the armed forces focussed around the Navy and replacement of the nuclear deterrant with a rapid reaction task force!
    I actually like your ideas...

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  • LeoliansBro 15 Mar 2013 12:42:09 44,506 posts
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    Of course you do - they're all Liberal headline grabbing election promises.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Mr_Sleep 15 Mar 2013 12:42:52 17,184 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Lib Dems are a bit ideologically fuzzy in that they don't really stand for anything. Labout are for mutual support and centralised bureaucracy and acting in the common interest. Tories are for competition and individual determination and responsibility and a free market. Lib Dems are everyone else.

    What we really need is a party with a proper Liberal agenda.
    Alternatively, we could do with the Labour party actually standing for what you state. I'm not sure they do any more.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • whatfruit 15 Mar 2013 12:44:58 1,606 posts
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    @LeoliansBro I don't think the public got a vote, it was shot down in the house of commons the Lib dems had proposed it and the Conservatives pretended to support it until it became apparent that they were only saying so to humour the lib dems.

    Edit: I stand corrected it was AV they rejected not PR. The reason why the main political parties are against it is that it would challenge the 2 party system which they are so adament to maintain. They claim PR doesn't work when in fact variations of it are used right across the EU. As a consequence european goverments are far more diverse containing both right wing mentalists and left wing communists.

    Edited by whatfruit at 12:50:30 15-03-2013

    bobomb wrote:
    so it's not really on her terms, it's on his terms, because she isn't real.

  • glaeken 15 Mar 2013 12:45:24 11,221 posts
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    whatfruit wrote:
    Well a move to proportinal representaion election system would be a good start, it would allow the creation of viable alternative political parties for a start.
    You just broadening your selection pool of cunts.

    People who want power and think they have some sort of ability to exercise power just tend to be cunts. Yeah you get the odd non cunt who gets through the selection process from time to time but in general itís wall to wall cunts.

    Really though our system of government may be flawed our general day to day lives are not too bad really if you consider where we have come from. What we have arrived at is a system of government that allows most of us to live our lives in an atmosphere of stability without fear of being killed or starving to death. Of course this is with specific regard to the UK.

    Edited by glaeken at 12:46:06 15-03-2013
  • TheSaint 15 Mar 2013 12:47:16 14,614 posts
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    Italy has shown that new parties can still do quite well if the public have a desire for fundamental change.

    I'm not sure the UK really has any desire for a far left party. Ken Loach was on Question Time the other week bemoaning business and calling for nationalisation of different sectors such as banking and it just makes him sound like a nutter.

    Our parties may not be great but I'd take them over some of the crazies that get elected in places like the US or Denmark.
  • ResidentKnievel 15 Mar 2013 12:56:38 6,238 posts
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    Those crazy danes and their free child care

    [code]Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Unlike yourself, I don't have a weird obsession with any platform.[/code]

  • spamdangled 15 Mar 2013 14:11:41 27,413 posts
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    Not UK Politics, but I wasn't sure where else to put it:

    A friend in South Africa just told me about this. A police officer, unprovoked, brutally assaulting 2 gay guys in a convenience store (text is in Afrkaans, video at the end).

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • Deleted user 15 March 2013 14:16:09
    I wouldn't want to be gay and born in the third world. Unlucky sods.
  • spamdangled 15 Mar 2013 14:21:12 27,413 posts
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    He went on to say that "corrective rape" of Lesbians is common and in his own neighbourhood there is currently a serial killer targeting gay men and the police and media just turn a blind eye to all of it.

    This is in Johannesburg.

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  • 4gate 19 Mar 2013 22:13:20 362 posts
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    Blair has no regrets about his decision to invade Iraq, a view not necessarily shared by the families of the 50 odd dead in Baghdad bombings today. I'm sure, in his darker moments, the £10M a year he makes peace-broking cheers him up.
  • spamdangled 19 Mar 2013 22:34:50 27,413 posts
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    4gate wrote:
    Blair has no regrets about his decision to invade Iraq, a view not necessarily shared by the families of the 50 odd dead in Baghdad bombings today. I'm sure, in his darker moments, the £10M a year he makes peace-broking cheers him up.
    He was also calling for a military intervention in Syria.

    To be honest, I'm not entirely opposed to the latter given what's going on there.

    His amazing lack of an apology for leading us into a decade-long war on horrendously faulty intelligence still makes him a massive cunt though.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • faux-C 19 Mar 2013 22:42:02 9,441 posts
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    Labour's failure to vote against the new Workfare bill is one of the singularly most depressing political events I can remember.

    The only reason this bill exists to further screw workless people out of money they are legally owed for illegally being forced to take unpaid work. If the main party of opposition are incapable of facing down the Tory cunts on this and standing up for the poorest and most disenfranchised people in the country, then what the fuck is this thing we call democracy in this country?

    Don't get me wrong, when the Tory cunts and their Quisling allies are cast out of power and Labour comes back in, I'll be dancing in the streets just like everyone else, but this spineless shit they've pulled today will not be forgotten.
  • Syrette 19 Mar 2013 22:54:33 43,767 posts
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    People will be dancing on the streets when Labour are back in?

    I doubt that, somehow.

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