The UK General Politics Thread Page 818

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  • Mfolf 6 Dec 2017 21:47:17 1,866 posts
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    DukeSilver wrote:
    Vile cunts. Spastics. Nice thread with delightful people engaging in intellectual debate.
    Sorry, Iím not a meme lord like the trumpers/Corbynites so I like to stick to the trusted oldies when it comes to insults.
  • H1ggyLTD 6 Dec 2017 21:47:18 8,121 posts
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    Imagine defending Tony Blair.

    Imagine defending the banks.


    Imaginefolf.
  • GoatApocalypse 6 Dec 2017 21:49:35 3,324 posts
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    "all of those people are and always have been hateful vile cunts that would have been easy prey for a remotely competent opposition. Especially during one of the biggest challenges facing our country. But he didnít. Are you seriously trying to twist this to blame Alan Johnson"

    I'm sure you can understand my inference.
  • Mfolf 6 Dec 2017 21:50:27 1,866 posts
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    Imagine being near 40 and being part of a trump army.
  • elstoof 6 Dec 2017 21:50:54 19,182 posts
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    Theyíre all also still at large, hence the incompetence
  • Mfolf 6 Dec 2017 21:52:18 1,866 posts
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    GoatApocalypse wrote:
    "all of those people are and always have been hateful vile cunts that would have been easy prey for a remotely competent opposition. Especially during one of the biggest challenges facing our country. But he didnít. Are you seriously trying to twist this to blame Alan Johnson"

    I'm sure you can understand my inference.
    no, not really. He had (and has ffs) an obligation to act as opposition. I never and no one else said he held the keys to remain. But he could have fucking tried. Again, the centrist dads actually tried.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 6 Dec 2017 21:53:04 5,308 posts
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    Mfolf wrote:
    the spastics
    Fuck off
  • DukeSilver 6 Dec 2017 21:53:49 2,666 posts
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    Mfolf wrote:
    DukeSilver wrote:
    Vile cunts. Spastics. Nice thread with delightful people engaging in intellectual debate.
    Sorry, I'm not a meme lord like the trumpers/Corbynites so I like to stick to the trusted oldies when it comes to insults.
    Spastics should have faded from your vocabulary as it's not 1980 and it's now an offensive word.
  • GoatApocalypse 6 Dec 2017 21:54:40 3,324 posts
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    @Mfolf I'm not sure how closely you followed the referendum, but it wasn't fought on traditional party lines. The Labour Party's official position was the same as the Conservatives' - they campaigned on it together. The Labour Party chose that their part of the campaign would be led by Alan Johnson because the PLP, in particular, believed that Corbyn's brand was toxic.

    Given his personal approval ratings at the time, I can understand why they chose that route. Particularly since his position was, at best, luke-warm.

    Again, I'm not blaming Johnson. I'm just giving you the facts. If you think Corbyn should have done more, I agree. I'm merely explaining why he didn't.

    I think putting Corbyn front and centre of the Remain campaign - as a sceptic - would have been a really smart move. But that's with the benefit of hindsight. And for all I know, it could've been catastrophic.

    That's not to blame or absolve anyone from blame. But only an absolute fucking idiot would believe it was pivotal, given decades of anti-EU sentiment that the establishment had been all-too-keen to foster.

    And one more thing - I can guarantee that if they'd put Blair up for Remain, Leave would've won by a landslide.
  • GoatApocalypse 6 Dec 2017 21:54:41 3,324 posts
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    @Mfolf I'm not sure how closely you followed the referendum, but it wasn't fought on traditional party lines. The Labour Party's official position was the same as the Conservatives' - they campaigned on it together. The Labour Party chose that their part of the campaign would be led by Alan Johnson because the PLP, in particular, believed that Corbyn's brand was toxic.

    Given his personal approval ratings at the time, I can understand why they chose that route. Particularly since his position was, at best, luke-warm.

    Again, I'm not blaming Johnson. I'm just giving you the facts. If you think Corbyn should have done more, I agree. I'm merely explaining why he didn't.

    I think putting Corbyn front and centre of the Remain campaign - as a sceptic - would have been a really smart move. But that's with the benefit of hindsight. And for all I know, it could've been catastrophic.

    That's not to blame or absolve anyone from blame. But only an absolute fucking idiot would believe it was pivotal, given decades of anti-EU sentiment that the establishment had been all-too-keen to foster.

    And one more thing - I can guarantee that if they'd put Blair up for Remain, Leave would've won by a landslide.
  • Mfolf 6 Dec 2017 21:55:24 1,866 posts
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    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    Mfolf wrote:
    the spastics
    Fuck off
    Yeah, sorry Iíll edit when I get to computer.
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 6 Dec 2017 21:57:04 11,995 posts
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    Some absolute tumble dryers in here.
  • DukeSilver 6 Dec 2017 21:58:50 2,666 posts
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    @Decks I'm not talking to you unless we have a mowgli picture in his home location of DFS.
  • GoatApocalypse 6 Dec 2017 21:58:51 3,324 posts
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    I'm loathe to point to the New Statesman - hardly a pro-Corbyn publication - but this is a good editorial on the subject: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/brexit/2017/12/border-question-can-be-solved-only-once-britain-understands-what-irish-want

    EDIT: weird URL, the title of the piece is actually Itís neither in Labour nor the UKís interests to blame Jeremy Corbyn for Brexit and it's fron June 2016.

    Edited by GoatApocalypse at 22:00:00 06-12-2017
  • Mfolf 6 Dec 2017 21:59:24 1,866 posts
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    GoatApocalypse wrote:
    @Mfolf I'm not sure how closely you followed the referendum, but it wasn't fought on traditional party lines. The Labour Party's official position was the same as the Conservatives' - they campaigned on it together. The Labour Party chose that their part of the campaign would be led by Alan Johnson because the PLP, in particular, believed that Corbyn's brand was toxic.

    Given his personal approval ratings at the time, I can understand why they chose that route. Particularly since his position was, at best, luke-warm.

    Again, I'm not blaming Johnson. I'm just giving you the facts. If you think Corbyn should have done more, I agree. I'm merely explaining why he didn't.

    I think putting Corbyn front and centre of the Remain campaign - as a sceptic - would have been a really smart move. But that's with the benefit of hindsight. And for all I know, it could've been catastrophic.

    That's not to blame or absolve anyone from blame. But only an absolute fucking idiot would believe it was pivotal, given decades of anti-EU sentiment that the establishment had been all-too-keen to foster.

    And one more thing - I can guarantee that if they'd put Blair up for Remain, Leave would've won by a landslide.
    I never said it was pivotal, but he did nothing. It was a tiny victory so it is hard to not look at it in hindsight. And a look warm and utterly useless opposition leader that criticised the EU more than anything is a blessingly huge target. And yes I know it wasnít fought down party lines, but letís be real here. It was his first test as opposition leader and he fucked it. Heís also been like warm since (and donít credit him for a hung parliament and manifesto destruction, the Tories incompetents did that).
  • thelzdking 6 Dec 2017 21:59:40 6,652 posts
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    Bloody wardrobes.
  • mothercruncher 6 Dec 2017 22:02:45 14,369 posts
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    Com eon, get with it Dad. Itís absolute wardrobes.

    You absolute Birdseye Potato Waffle.
  • GoatApocalypse 6 Dec 2017 22:02:56 3,324 posts
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    Mfolf wrote:
    Again, the centrist dads actually tried.
    They tried to explain to people that the status quo was actually good, when so much of the country is hurting because of the liberal hegemony established by the EU. Arguing for the status quo from a point of privilege while the country is bleeding was just dumb politics. The whole of the Remain campaign fucked it.

    I'd therefore argue that the Dads were, as ever, in their benign ignorance, a huge part of the problem without the ability to reflect on the harm they're doing.
  • JamboWayOh 6 Dec 2017 22:03:31 4,562 posts
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    thelzdking wrote:
    Bloody wardrobes.
    You're being too kind, they're all fucking king size Divans.
  • challenge_hanukkah 6 Dec 2017 22:05:16 5,615 posts
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    It's wall to wall walls in this thread.

    Eggs.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 6 Dec 2017 22:05:37 5,308 posts
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    @GoatApocalypse Stephen Bush is usually good at outlining issues and actually interested in what's going on as opposed to just opinion spouting. I wish more parliamentary coverage was like his.

    Possibly Isabel Hardman would be the right win equivalent at the Spectator, maybe James Forsyth there too but he's much more explicitly partisan in his columns.

    For all that experience can bring its rewards I think we'd be better off with those younger engaged writers than all the old sods who are purely reactive and don't appear to have done any serious research in years.
  • GoatApocalypse 6 Dec 2017 22:05:37 3,324 posts
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    @Mfolf Demonstrably did more than nothing. He did more than the actual campaign leader. Don't demean yourself.

    I think you're off on a frolic of your own in total ignorance of the facts, but let's pick up the logic and run with it for a sec. Your position is that he's incompetent and takes no credit for the modest wins he's achieved - why do you think a man like that would've helped, given his consistent position on the EU since the 70s?
  • Blurp 6 Dec 2017 22:13:02 1,181 posts
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    Mfolf wrote:
    GoatApocalypse wrote:
    I think blaming individuals is a fool's errand. Blame Cameron for calling the referendum, blame Johnson for his outright lies, blame Farage for years of insighting racial hatred, blame the media establishment for totally failing in their duty, blame years of neoliberalism for building the sentiment up amongst the populace.

    Corbyn's role is only a tiny part in it. He might have made a more positive impact if he was used better but the deal was that Alan Johnson ran the show.
    all of those people are and always have been hateful vile cunts that would have been easy prey for a remotely competent opposition. Especially during one of the biggest challenges facing our country. But he didnít. Are you seriously trying to twist this to blame Alan Johnson?
    Your twisting it laying the majority of the blame on Corbyn you fucking bread knife.
  • Mfolf 6 Dec 2017 22:13:07 1,866 posts
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    GoatApocalypse wrote:
    @Mfolf Demonstrably did more than nothing. He did more than the actual campaign leader. Don't demean yourself.

    I think you're off on a frolic of your own in total ignorance of the facts, but let's pick up the logic and run with it for a sec. Your position is that he's incompetent and takes no credit for the modest wins he's achieved - why do you think a man like that would've helped, given his consistent position on the EU since the 70s?
    hold up, where did I say he takes no credit for the modest wins heís achieved?!? Is this whole debate happening in your head?

    Itís hard to give you the benefit of the doubt that you mean it in the proper sense when you refer to liberal hegemony and not the_donald use when you are speaking such consistent bollocks. He did more than the campaign leader? You mean for Leave?
  • thelzdking 6 Dec 2017 22:14:48 6,652 posts
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    JamboWayOh wrote:
    thelzdking wrote:
    Bloody wardrobes.
    You're being too kind, they're all fucking king size Divans.
    Possibly, but I think we can both agree that you're seeing your typical glovebox mentality here.
  • Mfolf 6 Dec 2017 22:15:28 1,866 posts
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    Blurp wrote:
    Mfolf wrote:
    GoatApocalypse wrote:
    I think blaming individuals is a fool's errand. Blame Cameron for calling the referendum, blame Johnson for his outright lies, blame Farage for years of insighting racial hatred, blame the media establishment for totally failing in their duty, blame years of neoliberalism for building the sentiment up amongst the populace.

    Corbyn's role is only a tiny part in it. He might have made a more positive impact if he was used better but the deal was that Alan Johnson ran the show.
    all of those people are and always have been hateful vile cunts that would have been easy prey for a remotely competent opposition. Especially during one of the biggest challenges facing our country. But he didnít. Are you seriously trying to twist this to blame Alan Johnson?
    Your twisting it laying the majority of the blame on Corbyn you fucking bread knife.
    Where is Alan Johnson now? Does anyone fucking care? No. But we still have the dire Tories fucking up the country and Corbyn sat there like a fart thatís slightly annoying but, you know, not enough to get up and leave the room/Lose a general election.
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 6 Dec 2017 22:15:44 11,995 posts
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    You know the predrilled holes you get on the inside of kitchen unit doors. What an absolute one of them you are.
  • GoatApocalypse 6 Dec 2017 22:17:05 3,324 posts
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    Mfolf wrote:
    GoatApocalypse wrote:
    @Mfolf Demonstrably did more than nothing. He did more than the actual campaign leader. Don't demean yourself.

    I think you're off on a frolic of your own in total ignorance of the facts, but let's pick up the logic and run with it for a sec. Your position is that he's incompetent and takes no credit for the modest wins he's achieved - why do you think a man like that would've helped, given his consistent position on the EU since the 70s?
    hold up, where did I say he takes no credit for the modest wins heís achieved?!? Is this whole debate happening in your head?
    "donít credit him for a hung parliament and manifesto destruction, the Tories incompetents did that"

    Oh, yeah, sorry, no idea where I got that from.

    Mfolf wrote:
    Itís hard to give you the benefit of the doubt that you mean it in the proper sense when you refer to liberal hegemony and not the_donald use when you are speaking such consistent bollocks.
    I'm sorry you find the language intimidating, but it's ironic that you should accuse me of "speaking such consistent bollocks" when... well, here we are:

    Mfolf wrote:
    He did more than the campaign leader? You mean for Leave?

    I'm off for a wank.

    Edited by GoatApocalypse at 22:17:32 06-12-2017
  • Armoured_Bear 6 Dec 2017 22:17:05 20,847 posts
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    Do we have some quality Mowgli expletive-filled rage?
  • Armoured_Bear 6 Dec 2017 22:17:05 20,847 posts
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    Do we have some quality Mowgli expletive-filled rage?
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