The UK General Politics Thread Page 778

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  • Psychotext 9 Mar 2017 12:27:41 61,081 posts
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    I do love how the government is trying to frame those people as unfairly paying less tax yet conveniently ignoring all of the protections and advantages being in employment gets you.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 9 Mar 2017 13:19:32 2,016 posts
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    It looks like they might have underestimated the press reaction to this

    Question is whether it's more Pasty Tax or Brown's 10p rate mistake in the long run
  • breakablepants 9 Mar 2017 13:24:34 654 posts
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    I'd just rather someone in Government grew some bollocks and said "look, we've got a care crisis, the NHS is in bad shape as a knock-on, and so we need to put up tax by 1-2p to get it sorted."

    All these bloody hidden taxes and changes to NI have the same net effect, so why not be upfront and try and get the public behind it? Anyone on low income would be exempt from an income tax rise anyway.

    Look at Iceland - that's exactly what they did after the financial crash, and it got their economy back on keel quickly.
  • X201 9 Mar 2017 13:26:46 17,724 posts
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    Given the current climate, as chancellor, if you want to grab any tax now is the time to do it. Just portray someone as not paying their fair share and you instantly put them in the pot with Amazon, Vodafone, Psychotex, and Starbucks
  • breakablepants 9 Mar 2017 13:29:55 654 posts
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    @Psychotext Totally agree. I've basically had no pay rise since 2007 so that's effectively a pay cut, the only way I can compensate is through self-employment and using Dividend as the bulk of my pay.

    My staff are all PAYE, we pay corp tax, employers NI, our own NI and income taxes, yet somehow I'm gaming the system through deciding to create jobs for other people and at the same time give myself no job security.

    It's a good job that the Chancellor didn't enjoy all of those "cheating' benefits as he amassed his paltry 10 million property and investment portfolio.
  • X201 9 Mar 2017 13:55:28 17,724 posts
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    That's the problem he's trying to solve isn't it.
    He's trying to separate three distinct groups

    The self employed who start a business with the hope of growing it and taking on staff

    The self employed who are genuinely a one man band

    And the self employed who are doing it as a tax dodge at either their or their employers instigation


    He likes the first two, but wants tax from the last one, under the present system there's no neat and easy way to segregate them
  • brokenkey 9 Mar 2017 14:03:15 8,659 posts
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    Or maybe he's targeting those self employed types who use the NHS from time to time and have old relatives who draw the state pension?

    Edited by brokenkey at 14:05:03 09-03-2017
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 9 Mar 2017 14:10:30 2,016 posts
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    On the Spectator podcast budget special they were saying that they suspected it was partly because Hammond was working on eliminating what are considered 'anomalies' in the tax system by the Treasury rather than calculating the politics of the decision. They were split on whether it was a mistake or not.

    I suppose, and there was a sense of this in the Spectator and the New Statesman hot takes on the Budget - if the Tories are going to get in some unpopular and unfortunate sounding changes best to do them now while there is no effective parliamentary opposition and before the effects of Brexit take hold. That way by the time the next election rolls around most people will have forgotten this and the election will be fought on different political territory to that which we have now.

    Even so, they've done a terrible job at selling some of the changes they've made this time.

    Like Helen Lewis was tweeting yesterday - What did Hammond think the take home headline of this budget was?
  • DaM 9 Mar 2017 14:18:28 16,462 posts
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    I think with the dividend cut he's aiming at business owners who take a small salary and the rest on divs avoiding personal NI contributions.

    Maybe you should only be allowed to do this if the company pays a certain amount of employer NI? That's my justification anyway ;)
  • Psychotext 9 Mar 2017 15:10:05 61,081 posts
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    Wasn't the dividend change being got rid of? I haven't been keeping track to be honest as I don't use it to pay myself.

    Oh, and looking at Speak Ur Brane it seems that the opinions on this page are correct. Make people associate the self employed with tax dodgers and you've got instant support from the feckless masses.

    So that's the immigrants, sick, elderly, anyone on benefits, and the self employed to blame for all of the UK's ills now.
  • Jono62 9 Mar 2017 15:12:06 17,170 posts
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    Dont forget Scotland.

    I'm awaiting Englishgamer's take on the budget.
  • Psychotext 15 Mar 2017 13:00:09 61,081 posts
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    National Insurance increase cancelled: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39278968
  • senso-ji 15 Mar 2017 13:21:47 7,699 posts
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    Bunch of incompetent twats. And this is the government charged with taking us out of the single market and securing the economy with new trade deals, remember...
  • oceanmotion 15 Mar 2017 13:47:17 17,118 posts
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    Don't worry, we will just complain after leaving the EU and they'll reverse the decision.
  • Armoured_Bear 15 Mar 2017 13:50:43 19,349 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    National Insurance increase cancelled: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39278968
    Proof of how much influence the press have, embarrassing.
  • TheSaint 15 Mar 2017 13:51:23 17,048 posts
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    So Labour are now so ineffective we are relying on the Tory backbenchers to be the opposition.

    That's reassuring.
  • Dougs 15 Mar 2017 14:00:57 80,985 posts
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    (And the media, really)
  • elstoof 15 Mar 2017 14:03:44 17,578 posts
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    So if we round up Dacre and Gallagher, hold them in a black site and torture them until they change their editorial stance, we can side step all this nasty business?
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 15 Mar 2017 14:06:30 2,016 posts
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    Same thing happened during the New Labour years before Cameron took over as Tory leader. An irrelevant opposition party with an unpopular joke leader means that the focus of political gravity moves inside the governing party and the media bubble it feeds.

    Only this time it's backbench and local government grumbles instead of Teams Blair and Brown briefing and leaking to the Sun and Mail about each other.
  • chopsen 15 Mar 2017 14:11:27 19,298 posts
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    The best solution is just to get rid of NI completely and replace it with an increase in income tax and corp tax. It's a stupid tax.
  • Armoured_Bear 16 Mar 2017 22:53:58 19,349 posts
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    I can't stand Jacob Rees-Mogg.
  • President_Weasel 16 Mar 2017 23:27:26 12,290 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    I can't stand Jacob Rees-Mogg.
    well no, he's a stilty-leggedy over-privileged cunt
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 17 Mar 2017 00:27:53 2,016 posts
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    It's amazing that a government that is piling down the Major/Brown road to meltdown this quickly is still almost certain to be the largest single party at the next general election.
  • ControlledChaos 17 Mar 2017 00:41:08 302 posts
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    TheSaint wrote:
    So Labour are now so ineffective we are relying on the Tory backbenchers to be the opposition.

    That's reassuring.
    More effective than when they were abstaining tax credit cuts, or introducing tuition fees, or saddling hospitals and schools with pfi debt, or bailing out the banks
  • ControlledChaos 17 Mar 2017 00:45:21 302 posts
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    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    It's amazing that a government that is piling down the Major/Brown road to meltdown this quickly is still almost certain to be the largest single party at the next general election.
    Don't count your chickens, This gov is so hated, soon as the Labour party fall in line behind Corbyn which they'll have to at a GE, we'll be a resurgent force, sadly we'll just have to live with the vocal minority bashing Corbyn until then
  • Armoured_Bear 17 Mar 2017 00:51:10 19,349 posts
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    ControlledChaos wrote:
    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    It's amazing that a government that is piling down the Major/Brown road to meltdown this quickly is still almost certain to be the largest single party at the next general election.
    Don't count your chickens, This gov is so hated, soon as the Labour party fall in line behind Corbyn which they'll have to at a GE, we'll be a resurgent force, sadly we'll just have to live with the vocal minority bashing Corbyn until then
    Haha.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 17 Mar 2017 01:20:16 2,016 posts
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    He's a good leader, it's everybody else's fault for not following!!
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 17 Mar 2017 01:24:14 2,016 posts
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    The election overspending thing should be interesting. Blair was hurt by funding scandals, Brown too perhaps moreso in the short term.

    It's strange but given that the Tories are more likely than not to win any potential reruns then this could be something which they're able to ride out. Admittedly that'd be mainly because of a disastrous opposition and that the government has other bigger problems to fuck it.
  • challenge_hanukkah 17 Mar 2017 07:26:17 3,916 posts
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    ControlledChaos wrote:
    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    It's amazing that a government that is piling down the Major/Brown road to meltdown this quickly is still almost certain to be the largest single party at the next general election.
    Don't count your chickens, This gov is so hated, soon as the Labour party fall in line behind Corbyn which they'll have to at a GE, we'll be a resurgent force, sadly we'll just have to live with the vocal minority bashing Corbyn until then
    This genuinely made me laugh.

    Cheers for that.
  • FWB 17 Mar 2017 07:47:34 52,912 posts
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    Haha. Quality post. Wonder if Corbyn believes that. Mental.
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