The UK General Politics Thread Page 72

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  • MetalDog 15 Jan 2013 17:47:43 23,697 posts
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    Unless you count taxing us for it anyway and giving money to companies that will try to make as much of it profit for them and the politicians with vested interests instead of healthcare for us as 'nationalisation', no.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • LeoliansBro 15 Jan 2013 17:50:16 43,600 posts
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    These are private companies though. Hoe do you privatise private companies?

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Psychotext 15 Jan 2013 17:51:28 53,915 posts
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    Come on LB, he's clearly talking about more aspects of NHS care being farmed out to private companies... this is just part of the lead up to it.
  • MetalDog 15 Jan 2013 18:00:34 23,697 posts
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    Random words to overcome the 'you can't post' bug

    It's the non-private bits this is going to affect - this is to encourage the private companies to expand their territory within it.

    We are talking about these guys, remember?

    Random words to overcome the 'you can't post' bug

    Edited by MetalDog at 18:01:07 15-01-2013

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • LeoliansBro 15 Jan 2013 18:03:12 43,600 posts
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    Hum. I read it as an incentive to tie the supply chain more closely to the NHS.

    Could be nefarious. Could not be.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • DaM 15 Jan 2013 18:07:38 12,966 posts
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    "Currently public sector hospitals do not pay corporation tax and VAT on supplies, unlike private companies."

    Sorry what? Suppliers charge them VAT (well we do, they've never complained), so I'm assuming they just claim it back like any other VAT-registered entity, and you don't pay corporation tax on supplies, you pay it on profits after you've taken everything else off.
  • Psychotext 15 Jan 2013 18:14:40 53,915 posts
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    Do they charge VAT on their services though DaM? Would be a massive chunk lost without it.
  • spamdangled 15 Jan 2013 19:18:36 27,276 posts
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    Megapocalypse wrote:
    I really don't understand some of these proposals. Windsor says we're all all overweight, lazy, uneducated, corrupt and racist, and that a change is needed to recruit better people. Then the government somehow decides that to recruit better candidates they need to pay recruits significantly less, reducing the perks and they're desperately trying to get rid of the job security too. In what world does that make sense.

    But its ok, because they're bringing in direct entry to higher ranks meaning that some deputy manager from Tesco can come and tell us all how it should be done.
    The way it was explained on the BBC earlier is that while entry-level salary is going down, those coming into the force from positions like a CSO will go straight in at the 23k route, plus by cutting out 3 of the pay bands they are making it easier and quicker for people to get to the 36k "average".

    In that sense, I can sort of see it being a good thing. People will be encouraged to get a taste for the work via a CSO or other route before committing to a full career in policing, which might help to prevent people from just joining the force on a whim and then deciding it isn't for them within a year (causing a waste of of the money spent to train them), and hopefully help to weed out the vigilante-wannabes and potentially corrupt (possibly?).

    If it's true they're making it easier for people to go straight into senior roles from other sectors though then that's not so good.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • DaM 15 Jan 2013 19:36:19 12,966 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    Do they charge VAT on their services though DaM? Would be a massive chunk lost without it.
    Who are they charging? If you are VAT-registered, you have to put VAT on top of everything you sell. You give this to the Government every quarter. You claim VAT you have paid on stuff you have bought, and just pay the HMRC the difference. Trusts will buy more than they "sell", so they will get money back every quarter.

    If you don't charge VAT, you don't claim it back.

    I'm assuming they are VAT-registered in the normal fashion, they might not be :)
  • Psychotext 15 Jan 2013 19:50:00 53,915 posts
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    You can't charge VAT on everything. Plenty of products and services are zero rated, and I wouldn't be surprised if healthcare was one of them.
  • DaM 15 Jan 2013 20:07:22 12,966 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    You can't charge VAT on everything. Plenty of products and services are zero rated, and I wouldn't be surprised if healthcare was one of them.
    True. Still, I'm not sure who they charge. GPs? And I'm not sure where the corporation tax comes into it, are they profit making bodies?
  • Chopsen 15 Jan 2013 20:09:36 15,829 posts
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    GPs are profitnmaking organisations and usually aren't VAT registered.
  • Megapocalypse 15 Jan 2013 20:15:18 5,370 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    In that sense, I can sort of see it being a good thing. People will be encouraged to get a taste for the work via a CSO or other route before committing to a full career in policing, which might help to prevent people from just joining the force on a whim and then deciding it isn't for them within a year (causing a waste of of the money spent to train them), and hopefully help to weed out the vigilante-wannabes and potentially corrupt (possibly?).
    I understand what your saying, though I'm not sure I agree. I don't think the number of people who join the police 'on a whim' is anywhere near significant enough to be effected by this. Indeed, in most forces the waiting lists to just get on the training courses are over a year long from submitting an application. And unfortunately, the genuinely corrupt (of which there are very few) will not be put off by this.

    All this is going to do is reduce the pool from which people are recruited from.
  • morriss 17 Jan 2013 15:01:41 70,913 posts
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    Benefits and child credits squeeze pushes 200,000 children into poverty - http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jan/17/benefits-squeeze-200000-children-poverty

    Well done everyone.
  • MetalDog 17 Jan 2013 15:11:00 23,697 posts
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    The fundamental problem is that too many of the people in charge honestly believe poor is a synonym for lazy. If they can't un-learn that cripplingly stupid belief, they're never going to do anything but fuck the poor over.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • Chopsen 17 Jan 2013 15:12:24 15,829 posts
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    You don't even live here. If we want to put our children in to poverty, that's our business.
  • Psychotext 17 Jan 2013 15:13:13 53,915 posts
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    We don't care morriss... they're skivers, not strivers. Why should I remove any of my middle class luxuries to help people who wont help themselves?
  • Deckard1 17 Jan 2013 15:15:12 27,548 posts
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    Plus a bit of child poverty won't do the country any harm anyway. Thin the numbers a bit.

    Hush you ponce

  • Chopsen 17 Jan 2013 15:17:21 15,829 posts
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    Maybe the market for chimneysweeps will become viable again. Imagine how clean everything would be. Plus child labour would bring down the cost of goods as they're exempt from the minimum wage iirc. I commend our government on this wise course of action.
  • imamazed 17 Jan 2013 15:20:44 5,530 posts
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    @Deckard1 Indeed; less northeners can't be a bad thing!
  • Psychotext 17 Jan 2013 15:22:27 53,915 posts
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    With luck the cold might rid us of a few of them.

    It's grim up North.
  • Deckard1 17 Jan 2013 15:25:55 27,548 posts
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    Yeah we're all well jel of you southern "men".

    Hush you ponce

  • Psychotext 17 Jan 2013 15:33:34 53,915 posts
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    Don't make me wax your eyebrows.
  • Moot_Point 17 Jan 2013 15:39:47 3,958 posts
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    @morriss Do you know what morriss, it's times like these that make me ashamed to be British. All these changes will see a lot more people on the street, unable to afford to live. It really does feel like we have returned to the middle ages.

    ================================================================================

    mowgli wrote: I thought the 1 married the .2 and founded Islam?

  • TheSaint 17 Jan 2013 16:32:11 14,259 posts
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    Moot_Point wrote:
    It really does feel like we have returned to the middle ages.
    It really doesn't.

    Edited by TheSaint at 16:32:28 17-01-2013
  • Deleted user 17 January 2013 16:34:36
    "ashamed to be British" is usually followed up by things like "because of all these brown faces".
  • Bremenacht 17 Jan 2013 23:38:25 17,679 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    Why should I remove any of my middle class luxuries to help people who wont help themselves?
    I would happily give up a can or two of my favourite Olives stuffed with garlic and chili if it helped a poor chappy do some work for a change.
  • morriss 19 Jan 2013 09:28:20 70,913 posts
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    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/9811776/Fees-backlash-leads-to-sharp-decline-in-student-numbers.html

    40% decrease in student numbers. That's a great way to get the economy going - educate fewer people!

    Libertarianism and conservatism are such great ideologies! I love them.

    Edited by morriss at 09:28:53 19-01-2013
  • LeoliansBro 19 Jan 2013 11:19:41 43,600 posts
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    Do you love your 200% car tax as well?

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Chopsen 19 Jan 2013 12:11:25 15,829 posts
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    I've been saying there needs to be a decrease in student numbers for years. There has been an ideological driven inflation in numbers based on the simplistic notion that more students = awesomes, without actually worrying about the quality of eductation they were getting, if there were any jobs at the if for them and who was going to pay for it. This is just that correcting itself.

    Do you have anything interesting or useful to contribute, morriss, or is random smart arse sniping your thing now?

    Edited by Chopsen at 12:12:06 19-01-2013
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