The UK General Politics Thread Page 64

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  • senso-ji 5 Dec 2012 13:33:15 5,836 posts
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    Main rate of corporation tax to be cut by extra 1% to 21% from April 2014
    Is this to try to entice Starbucks et al to actually pay it?
  • Psychotext 5 Dec 2012 13:35:34 53,915 posts
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    Looks like a whole lot of nothing in that budget.
  • LeoliansBro 5 Dec 2012 13:38:04 43,631 posts
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    senso-ji wrote:
    Main rate of corporation tax to be cut by extra 1% to 21% from April 2014
    Is this to try to entice Starbucks et al to actually pay it?
    Nup, to encourage expansion in successful SMEs.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • mcmonkeyplc 5 Dec 2012 13:40:29 39,406 posts
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    Fucking cunt didn't give me a stamp duty holiday.

    Fucking cunt.

    Edited by mcmonkeyplc at 13:42:29 05-12-2012

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Fab4 5 Dec 2012 13:41:46 5,986 posts
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    Pitiful amount for scientific research.
  • spamdangled 5 Dec 2012 13:53:42 27,276 posts
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    Speaker bercow is on form today.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • LeoliansBro 5 Dec 2012 14:04:19 43,631 posts
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    'Speaker Bercow' flows about as well as 'Chef Ramsay'. I'd stick to 'Preening Self Important Political Nonentity with an Embarrassing Wife'.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • spamdangled 5 Dec 2012 14:05:56 27,276 posts
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    :D

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  • spamdangled 11 Dec 2012 13:08:00 27,276 posts
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    Urgh. All the bigots in the tory party are causing a load of bluster again in the commons debate on same sex marriage.

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  • teamHAM 11 Dec 2012 13:32:39 2,855 posts
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    Trying to force the Church of England to accept same sex marriages is pretty scandalous tbh.

    XBox Live, Origin, PSN and Steam: teamHAM

  • Load_2.0 11 Dec 2012 13:37:35 19,099 posts
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    Agreed people can be married in a church just not the COE.

    Sounds fair.
  • Waffleaber 11 Dec 2012 13:41:37 387 posts
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    The proposed law against the C of E conducting gay marriages is actually a fairly elegant solution in my book.

    Opponents of gay marriage, especially Daily Mail reading ones, were terrified as soon as it was legalised a suit would be bought at the EU human rights court to force religious institutions to comply.

    This should allay those fears marking any further arguments about forcing churches/mosques/synagogues to conduct gay marriages.

    Can't imagine gay Christians being that happy but baby steps and all that.
  • Waffleaber 11 Dec 2012 13:43:39 387 posts
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    The main reason they singled out the C of E is I think because it's written in their constitution that they can't refuse to marry any British citizen as long as that marriage is legal so they couldn't refuse to marry a gay couple.
  • LeoliansBro 11 Dec 2012 13:45:22 43,631 posts
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    The CofE has a constitution?

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Load_2.0 11 Dec 2012 13:54:58 19,099 posts
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    18. They are all paladins.
  • spamdangled 11 Dec 2012 14:02:04 27,276 posts
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    teamHAM wrote:
    Trying to force the Church of England to accept same sex marriages is pretty scandalous tbh.
    Then its a good thing that isn't what's happening then.

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  • Rusty_M 11 Dec 2012 14:14:09 4,632 posts
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    We need to get like the French and properly split the church from the state. The church shouldn't influence the government any more than the individuals should have their vote, the same as anyone else. The government shouldn't be able to tell religious bodies what to do either (within reason. Sacrificing people to a god is still murder)

    The world is going mad. Me? I'm doing fine.

  • MetalDog 11 Dec 2012 14:17:52 23,697 posts
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    The problem is the possibility of people taking churches to an EU court for not marrying them. That needs to be properly safeguarded against or we're criminalising beliefs themselves, which is a very dangerous road to go down. 'Think how I think or you go to jail' isn't somewhere we want to be. Many of them would go to jail, rather than comply, they're not objecting for fun.

    You don't have to /like/ the way they think - but we do need to protect peoples rights not to do stuff that goes strongly against their beliefs when it causes no-one any actual harm. That's not an idea you should only apply to people you approve of.

    @Rusty_M
    Yeah, that would be good. Tricky, what with the monarchy and CofE entanglements, but that is where we should be working towards, I reckon.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • Rusty_M 11 Dec 2012 14:21:34 4,632 posts
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    @MetalDog

    Totally agree with that entire post.

    The world is going mad. Me? I'm doing fine.

  • spamdangled 11 Dec 2012 14:32:45 27,276 posts
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    @MetalDog

    Completely agree. The quadruple lock seems tight enough to protect churches as well.

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  • Mr_Sleep 11 Dec 2012 14:46:23 16,920 posts
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    I'm a bit confused about the gay marriage in churches issue. Primarily I don't really understand why a homosexual would want to be part of an institution which considers their lifestyle to be a sin.

    I assume the reason is because the church is discriminating, which is fair enough but I can't help but feel that this fight is a bit regressive from the main issue and may cause more problems than it solves.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • nickthegun 11 Dec 2012 14:56:49 59,315 posts
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    On the flipside of that, if you do that you are basically saying ĎIts ok if its religiousí, which is also a dangerous precedent.

    If you are trying to establish a tolerant state through legislature, you cant have exclusions. What if a business sacked someone if they found out they were gay? Itís the bosses right if his religion is against gays.

    Itís a no win situation. Forcing the church to do something does no one any favours but neither does, effectively allowing an institution to wantonly discriminate.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    He totally called it

  • spamdangled 11 Dec 2012 14:57:22 27,276 posts
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    @Mr_Sleep

    Well not all churches think it's a sin, and many within churches that do think that the institution is misinterpreting scripture, and on top of that there is the feeling that religious institutions need to move with the times and not stick so rigidly to traditions that no longer seem relevant in modern times.

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  • spamdangled 11 Dec 2012 15:00:32 27,276 posts
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    @nickthegun

    Yeah it's a sticky issue. I often feel very uncomfortable that religion gets so many special exclusions from discrimination legislation as it is. Just putting a thin veneer of respectability over bigotry does not change that it is still, at the end of the day, bigotry.

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  • MetalDog 11 Dec 2012 15:02:58 23,697 posts
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    @Mr_Sleep
    Leaving aside whether you (collective you) think it's a sin or not*, it's all down to where you draw the line. I doubt any individual in any church is leading a life that is completely sinless. We're all breaking the perfect way of being /somewhere/. Some of us are breaking it in lots of places. A hell of a lot if you take Leviticus as the standard.

    So, would you wonder why an alcoholic would want to get married in the church they grew up in, or joined? Or why the greedy person would? Or the selfish person, the hypocrite, the uncharitable, the gossip, the angry, the lazy, etc. All of them are sinning in their lifestyle in some way, but they wouldn't want to abandon their whole faith because they're not totally in step with every rule.

    *I have my doubts, personally. Jesus never explicitly stated an issue with it and while he seemed to consider promiscuity a sin, it wasn't one that wound him up anywhere near as much as hypocrisy. A monogamous relationship that is loving seems the very least of our flaws, not the greatest.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • LeoliansBro 11 Dec 2012 15:05:18 43,631 posts
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    MetalDog wrote:
    So, would you wonder why an alcoholic would want to get married in the church they grew up in, or joined? Or why the greedy person would? Or the selfish person, the hypocrite, the uncharitable, the gossip, the angry, the lazy.

    You rang?

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • MightyMetalMonkey 11 Dec 2012 15:25:46 600 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    MetalDog wrote:
    So, would you wonder why an alcoholic would want to get married in the church they grew up in, or joined? Or why the greedy person would? Or the selfish person, the hypocrite, the uncharitable, the gossip, the angry, the lazy.

    You rang?
    The Operative: Do you know what your sin is Mal?
    Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: Ah Hell... I'm a fan of all seven. But right now... I'm gonna have to go with wrath.
  • Psychotext 11 Dec 2012 16:11:07 53,915 posts
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    What's this "great institution of marriage" people keep talking about? I'm married and I can't say I've noticed any benefits. Was I supposed to get a joining pack or something? Maybe a membership card which I can use for discounts and services?
  • spamdangled 11 Dec 2012 16:18:50 27,276 posts
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    Its a pyramid scheme. You now need to get another 5 couples to marry. Once you've done that, you get your choice of either a free toaster or porcelain dining ware.

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  • Mr_Sleep 11 Dec 2012 21:10:26 16,920 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    @Mr_Sleep

    Well not all churches think it's a sin, and many within churches that do think that the institution is misinterpreting scripture, and on top of that there is the feeling that religious institutions need to move with the times and not stick so rigidly to traditions that no longer seem relevant in modern times.
    This I do understand, I once tried to explain to my dad how interpretation of the one specific reference has been misguided. It didn't go particularly well. Even when I brought in the issues about how older societies were involved in homosexuality a great deal. I even tried referring to how there's homosexuality in the animal kingdom!

    As for moving with the times, as an atheist I find the idea of an ancient organisation built upon its length, history and lineage trying to move with the times somewhat of a difficult concept/

    You are a factory of sadness.

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