The UK General Politics Thread Page 54

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  • Deleted user 20 October 2012 23:19:17
    darkmorgado wrote:
    Labour spent their way out of the recession and they managed to get growth up quite impressively before they lost power.
    Yes. If only those damn tories had kept increasing our debt then we would all be living in mansions made of gold now.
  • elstoof 20 Oct 2012 23:20:34 7,517 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    Labour spent their way out of the recession and they managed to get growth up quite impressively before they lost power.
    They almost got growth up enough to bump the price of gold to a record high for us to buy it back at.
  • Tom_Servo 20 Oct 2012 23:21:53 17,990 posts
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    Aargh. wrote:
    darkmorgado wrote:
    Labour spent their way out of the recession and they managed to get growth up quite impressively before they lost power.
    Yes. If only those damn tories had kept increasing our debt then we would all be living in mansions made of gold now.
    Haven't they though? Or is that the point you're making?
  • RedSparrows 20 Oct 2012 23:22:38 22,906 posts
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    Useful discussion here, I see.
  • Bremenacht 20 Oct 2012 23:26:32 18,459 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    Labour spent their way out of the recession and they managed to get growth up quite impressively before they lost power.
    Ahh hahahahahahahaha

    Good one!
  • elstoof 20 Oct 2012 23:30:56 7,517 posts
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    When I look at Labour I see an unemployed parent, shopping for Juicy Couture and putting it all on a credit card in the hope that one of its spawn will start fucking a footballer one day to pay it all off.
  • Deleted user 20 October 2012 23:32:25
    Tom_Servo wrote:
    Aargh. wrote:
    darkmorgado wrote:
    Labour spent their way out of the recession and they managed to get growth up quite impressively before they lost power.
    Yes. If only those damn tories had kept increasing our debt then we would all be living in mansions made of gold now.
    Haven't they though? Or is that the point you're making?
    Labour took us from 300 bn to a little short of 1 tn The tories have added a relatively small amount to that, partly because a lot of the things being paid for can't just be stopped as labour went into long term payment deals.

    I have nothing against governments spending a lot but to simply believe that more government spending = economic recovery shows an understanding of economics that a 5 year old in the 'special class' would have. Or DM.
  • malloc 20 Oct 2012 23:37:18 2,354 posts
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    Geesh wrote:
    No one really knows though, which is the worrying thing.
    This is what I find most funny (funny funny, not funny ha-ha :)). There's nobody saying we need to do this and then outlining a straight forward sensible alternative.

    Instead the nation is just distracted with plebgate and George Osborne sitting in first class, 2 things which are not even a drop in the ocean compared to what the country, and dare I say it, world, is facing.
  • Bremenacht 20 Oct 2012 23:37:42 18,459 posts
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    Geesh wrote:
    @Clive_Dunn

    What events in history have shown us that? I realise the depression in America was largely credited as a success of more public spending rather than less, but are there any other events in history which support this? Maybe what applied in the American Depression doesn't apply now and won't work. On top of that, without a bias, do you know of any events which actually showed cutting public spending (when money is tight) works?

    Just so you know, these aren't necessarily my views, I just feel the need to explore the issue before I make an opinion. Mind you, even with research, my opinion (and presumably all of ours) is completely useless considering how little of an expert I am when it comes to the world economy.
    Errmm, Hitler!

    I can't think of any instance where cutting public spending as dramatically as the Tories has had a positive income. I sort of agreed with it when they first started doing it, because I believed the pain would be spread equally. Tax cuts for top earners and the hounding of those on disability benefits taught me otherwise.

    But hey - any suggestion that top earners should pay as much as those on low incomes or on benefits is the politics of envy, right? Same for tax-dodging individuals and corporations.
  • Deleted user 21 October 2012 00:09:41
    Meanwhile, the Lib Dems were in the attic playing with their toy trains.
  • RobTheBuilder 21 Oct 2012 00:55:21 6,521 posts
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    As much as I disagree with spending for spendings sake, you only have to look at evidence from history to see that cutting back to this extent does not produce growth ever.
  • spamdangled 21 Oct 2012 01:08:25 27,377 posts
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    Aargh. wrote:
    Tom_Servo wrote:
    Aargh. wrote:
    darkmorgado wrote:
    Labour spent their way out of the recession and they managed to get growth up quite impressively before they lost power.
    Yes. If only those damn tories had kept increasing our debt then we would all be living in mansions made of gold now.
    Haven't they though? Or is that the point you're making?
    Labour took us from 300 bn to a little short of 1 tn The tories have added a relatively small amount to that, partly because a lot of the things being paid for can't just be stopped as labour went into long term payment deals.

    I have nothing against governments spending a lot but to simply believe that more government spending = economic recovery shows an understanding of economics that a 5 year old in the 'special class' would have. Or DM.
    You seem to think that the point I made was endorsing a particular political viewpoint.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • spamdangled 21 Oct 2012 01:09:03 27,377 posts
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    RobTheBuilder wrote:
    As much as I disagree with spending for spendings sake, you only have to look at evidence from history to see that cutting back to this extent does not produce growth ever.
    Yep.

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  • Deleted user 21 October 2012 01:21:28
    darkmorgado wrote:
    Aargh. wrote:
    Tom_Servo wrote:
    Aargh. wrote:
    darkmorgado wrote:
    Labour spent their way out of the recession and they managed to get growth up quite impressively before they lost power.
    Yes. If only those damn tories had kept increasing our debt then we would all be living in mansions made of gold now.
    Haven't they though? Or is that the point you're making?
    Labour took us from 300 bn to a little short of 1 tn The tories have added a relatively small amount to that, partly because a lot of the things being paid for can't just be stopped as labour went into long term payment deals.

    I have nothing against governments spending a lot but to simply believe that more government spending = economic recovery shows an understanding of economics that a 5 year old in the 'special class' would have. Or DM.
    You seem to think that the point I made was endorsing a particular political viewpoint.
    You were, in your usual passive aggressive way, until challenged on it when you're then unable to have any follow up views because you never got further than the headline on that particular Guardian article.
  • Deleted user 21 October 2012 01:26:05
    darkmorgado wrote:
    RobTheBuilder wrote:
    As much as I disagree with spending for spendings sake, you only have to look at evidence from history to see that cutting back to this extent does not produce growth ever.
    Yep.
    Nope.

    http://www.nber.org/digest/jan00/w7207.html
  • RobTheBuilder 21 Oct 2012 01:28:46 6,521 posts
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    If only there were some sort of party in the middle ground between "Spend everything" and "Fuck the poor"... some kind of party that could balance things... that could fight for realistic policies instead of short term political gain... think of the bigger picture... and not suck Tory cock the second a sniff of power is dangled in front of them...
  • spamdangled 21 Oct 2012 01:28:46 27,377 posts
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    Aargh. wrote:
    You were, in your usual passive aggressive way, until challenged on it when you're then unable to have any follow up views because you never got further than the headline on that particular Guardian article.
    No I wasn't actually, I was simply answering a question asked earlier about when greater government spending had led to growth. Or do you think I actually support the Labour party? Because that would be rather amusing if you did.

    But feel free to invent whatever scenario you wish.

    PS - I don't actually read the Guardian.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 01:30:13 21-10-2012

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  • RobTheBuilder 21 Oct 2012 01:31:33 6,521 posts
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    @Aargh. Maybe in general, as excessive spending is never a good idea. But in terms of dealing with a recession and sparking new growth the evidence is very strongly against drastic cuts.

    As said by both the OBR and IMF - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/9611545/Austerity-has-hurt-UK-growth-says-OBR.html
  • Deleted user 21 October 2012 01:33:52
    RobTheBuilder wrote:
    @Aargh. Maybe in general, as excessive spending is never a good idea. But in terms of dealing with a recession and sparking new growth the evidence is very strongly against drastic cuts.

    As said by both the OBR and IMF - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/9611545/Austerity-has-hurt-UK-growth-says-OBR.html
    However, spending cuts and tax increases were not the only reason for the OBR's forecasts falling short of the mark.
    its complicated
  • disusedgenius 21 Oct 2012 01:35:07 5,359 posts
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    So basically we're fucked if we spend money, fucked if we don't?

    Sounds reasonable...
  • RichieTenenbaum 21 Oct 2012 01:37:03 2,215 posts
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    I was on today's march. It was good
  • RobTheBuilder 21 Oct 2012 01:38:38 6,521 posts
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    @Aargh. Of course it is, I'm just trying to back up the very widely accepted view that you cannot save your way out of a recession. You (to put simply) need to spark growth and then save once the growth happens.
  • RobTheBuilder 21 Oct 2012 01:38:52 6,521 posts
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    @disusedgenius We are with Cameron in charge.
  • Deleted user 21 October 2012 01:39:53
    disusedgenius wrote:
    So basically we're fucked if we spend money, fucked if we don't?

    Sounds reasonable...
    Or we can spend less but then spend what we do on the right things, efficiently and then put policies in place that are designed to encourage the private sector. That's incredibly hard to do well so just spend shit on stuff, like labour, seems to be the other option.
  • spamdangled 21 Oct 2012 01:43:42 27,377 posts
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    Aargh. wrote:
    disusedgenius wrote:
    So basically we're fucked if we spend money, fucked if we don't?

    Sounds reasonable...
    Or we can spend less but then spend what we do on the right things, efficiently and then put policies in place that are designed to encourage the private sector. That's incredibly hard to do well so just spend shit on stuff, like labour, seems to be the other option.
    Because the Tories are doing such a great job of that...

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  • RobTheBuilder 21 Oct 2012 01:45:06 6,521 posts
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    @Aargh. Agreed to much of an extent. But the Tories always cut too much and invest badly, whereas Labour over invest in inefficient systems. We need a middle ground but don't have one.
  • RobTheBuilder 21 Oct 2012 01:58:18 6,521 posts
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    @Facepalm Any vote to prevent a Tory majority is a good vote as far as I am concerned.
  • disusedgenius 21 Oct 2012 02:00:17 5,359 posts
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    Aargh. wrote:
    Or we can spend less but then spend what we do on the right things, efficiently and then put policies in place that are designed to encourage the private sector.
    Well, I'm sure every government has the same idea. You'd be a bit worried if they had a sudden desire to spend money badly on something they didn't think was very good anyway.
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