The UK General Politics Thread Page 44

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  • X201 25 Sep 2012 16:56:51 18,105 posts
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    The Mitchell story is being kept alive for another reason though.

    If they prove that he lied it will be a handy point to make ahead of the Levison recommendations.
  • Deleted user 25 September 2012 16:57:37
    @jamievilla I'm fully aware of how the media works and its commercial objectives.

    The thing that pisses me off is the reactions of the morons that fuel the story who write into the newspapers, tweet, phone into radio shows, rage on forums and comments sections to express their outrage at the non story. That is the bit that really fucks me off. That people buy into this shit demanding inquiries, sackings, grovelling apolgies for something which has no bearing on their lives and is of no real concern to them. People are debating this as a serious issue and not the moronic outburst it was.

    Edited by whatfruit at 17:01:10 25-09-2012
  • Psychotext 25 Sep 2012 17:02:04 61,512 posts
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    Yet their opinions, tweets, reactions and rage don't affect you / have any bearing on your life either...

    ...and yet here you are, outraged at our behaviour. It's of no real concern to you. :)
  • X201 25 Sep 2012 17:04:11 18,105 posts
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  • disusedgenius 25 Sep 2012 17:04:31 8,206 posts
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    X201 wrote:
    The Mitchell story is being kept alive for another reason though.

    If they prove that he lied it will be a handy point to make ahead of the Levison recommendations.
    It's also kinda amusing, so there is that.
  • Dougs 25 Sep 2012 17:07:11 82,727 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    I think the point being made is that something irrelevant yet tabloidy as some posh tory bloke calling people plebs get so much attention while a genuine amoral exploitation of power gets glossed over reflects badly on the media and how it reports politics, not that the two stories had anything in common.
    It's exactly this that hs bugged me. It's like he thought he had some right to demand how the police should act, clearly abusing his meagre power and tiny position of authority, just because he's a Cabinet Minister. Any normal person would have accepted the policy and exited through the pedestrian gate. Can't stand "don't you know who I am" arseholes.
  • spamdangled 25 Sep 2012 17:07:18 30,604 posts
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    I think it's going to take a lot more than proving a tory politician swore at a policeman to save News International's bacon from Leveson.
  • Deleted user 25 September 2012 17:08:49
    Psychotext wrote:
    Yet their opinions, tweets, reactions and rage don't affect you / have any bearing on your life either...

    ...and yet here you are, outraged at our behaviour. It's of no real concern to you. :)
    Ah fuck it. i'm going down the pub.
  • Deleted user 25 September 2012 17:11:10
    Dougs wrote:
    Chopsen wrote:
    I think the point being made is that something irrelevant yet tabloidy as some posh tory bloke calling people plebs get so much attention while a genuine amoral exploitation of power gets glossed over reflects badly on the media and how it reports politics, not that the two stories had anything in common.
    It's exactly this that hs bugged me. It's like he thought he had some right to demand how the police should act, clearly abusing his meagre power and tiny position of authority, just because he's a Cabinet Minister. Any normal person would have accepted the policy and exited through the pedestrian gate. Can't stand "don't you know who I am" arseholes.
    That's because you aren't anyone. If you were someone then you would be pretty fucking angry if someone didn't know that were someone.
  • X201 25 Sep 2012 17:11:52 18,105 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    I think it's going to take a lot more than proving a tory politician swore at a policeman to save News International's bacon from Leveson.
    Its not about saving their bacon, its about "safeguarding investigative journalism", as they would put it.
  • RichDC 25 Sep 2012 17:11:57 7,454 posts
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    And whislt Mitchell is claiming that we should all be fucking grateful he apologised at all, another Tory has been sacked for making a joke about the murdered police officers.
  • jamievilla 25 Sep 2012 17:11:58 831 posts
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    whatfruit wrote:
    Dougs wrote:
    Chopsen wrote:
    I think the point being made is that something irrelevant yet tabloidy as some posh tory bloke calling people plebs get so much attention while a genuine amoral exploitation of power gets glossed over reflects badly on the media and how it reports politics, not that the two stories had anything in common.
    It's exactly this that hs bugged me. It's like he thought he had some right to demand how the police should act, clearly abusing his meagre power and tiny position of authority, just because he's a Cabinet Minister. Any normal person would have accepted the policy and exited through the pedestrian gate. Can't stand "don't you know who I am" arseholes.
    That's because you aren't anyone. If you were someone then you would be pretty fucking angry if someone didn't know that were someone.
    My head hurts. Did someone mention the pub? Lets go get drunk like plebs!
  • spamdangled 25 Sep 2012 17:13:36 30,604 posts
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    Megapocalypse wrote:
    And whislt Mitchell is claiming that we should all be fucking grateful he apologised at all, another Tory has been sacked for making a joke about the murdered police officers.
    I heard about that earlier. Apparently the bloke has even said it's not fair that he was sacked.
  • jamievilla 25 Sep 2012 17:15:43 831 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    Megapocalypse wrote:
    And whislt Mitchell is claiming that we should all be fucking grateful he apologised at all, another Tory has been sacked for making a joke about the murdered police officers.
    I heard about that earlier. Apparently the bloke has even said it's not fair that he was sacked.
    Anyone seen the joke he made? I paraphrase:

    "If you get 100 points for shooting 1 police woman and 200 for shooting 2 policewomen, how many for a lawyer?"

    And that was in front of a wife of serving officer, who when he contacted the tool to speak to him about it was told "Go away you silly man".

    Brilliant. What a moron. That's MUCH worse than Mitchell's comment.

    Edit: And apparently he actually said 'policewomen' Fuck's sake.

    Edited by jamievilla at 17:16:36 25-09-2012
  • MetalDog 25 Sep 2012 17:25:26 24,076 posts
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    I think one of the reasons the Mitchell thing is still so alight is because it stands as an example of things that we suspect about the people in charge. They think they're above us and they think they are above the law.

    We talk about the awful 'sense of entitlement' from the people at the bottom of the heap, but they're really just a murky reflection of the people at the top. Cheating their taxes and expenses claims instead of benefits. Lying, dodging responsibility, swaggering about demanding respect they haven't earned and swearing at the rozzers. Just another day on the Downing Street Estate.
  • Deleted user 25 September 2012 17:33:50
    People are people. Some are worthy and some are scum. I hate this idea that personality traits are somehow connected to socio-economic demographics.
  • MetalDog 25 Sep 2012 17:37:40 24,076 posts
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    I think Phillip Zimbardo is largely correct in his theory that certain trends of behaviour are actively encouraged by certain environments. We need to change the environments that trend towards making people behave badly.
  • Deleted user 25 September 2012 17:40:17
    I think I'm saying it's just as wrong to make a massive generaliation about any group of people, not just poor ones.
  • Dougs 25 Sep 2012 17:45:46 82,727 posts
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    whatfruit wrote:
    That's because you aren't anyone. If you were someone then you would be pretty fucking angry if someone didn't know that were someone.
    Not really, because I'm not a massive cunt. Just a little bit of one
  • MetalDog 25 Sep 2012 17:46:51 24,076 posts
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    I think I'm saying that the environment at the top and the bottom are bad for the people in them. Not everyone will fall to the general poorness of the environment, but many will. It's not really an accident that you get a higher/lower percentage of 'worthy' vs 'scum' in certain environments, is it? Also, if correct, improving the environment improves the people, rather than writing them off.
  • disusedgenius 25 Sep 2012 17:51:17 8,206 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    I hate this idea that personality traits are somehow connected to socio-economic demographics.
    I dunno, I don't see the idea that personality is shaped by environment to be particularly out of the question. Seems more dangerous to ignore any connections, if anything.
  • Deleted user 25 September 2012 17:57:36
    MetalDog wrote:
    I think I'm saying that the environment at the top and the bottom are bad for the people in them. Not everyone will fall to the general poorness of the environment, but many will. It's not really an accident that you get a higher/lower percentage of 'worthy' vs 'scum' in certain environments, is it? Also, if correct, improving the environment improves the people, rather than writing them off.
    So we improve people, but only to the middle ground, otherwise we create more monsters at the top?

    Dunno. I'm not saying I don't believe in nurture playing as crucial role as nature (which kinda seems to be what the environment issue boils down to) but I'm not convinced about this whole top/bottom thing. Feels like dangerous territory - classism masquerading as social commentary.
  • Deleted user 25 September 2012 17:58:52
    disusedgenius wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    I hate this idea that personality traits are somehow connected to socio-economic demographics.
    I dunno, I don't see the idea that personality is shaped by environment to be particularly out of the question. Seems more dangerous to ignore any connections, if anything.
    It's again more the generalising I take issue with.
  • Deleted user 25 September 2012 18:32:44
    MetalDog wrote:
    After a few months of research and interaction with police officers, I get the distinct impression that the force could be radically improved by replacing a significant portion of the top ranking officers. The fish really does seem to rot from the head in this instance.
    I think a lot of British institutions are like that. Top-heavy with greasy-pole climbers who expect a reward for their ambition without necessarily contributing to or improving the institutions to which they belong. You can see why privatisation looks attractive, but that just seems to result in an even bigger bunch of cunts extracting even bigger rewards for no improvement. If you're not one of them, you lose.

    You refer to an entitlement culture in another post. That seems to be our problem from top to bottom. Us, and the French.
  • MetalDog 25 Sep 2012 20:38:44 24,076 posts
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    @kalel
    I'm a pretty big believer in moderation being a major player in human happiness. I can't think of anything that won't damage us if taken to excess and the further extremes you go to, the more magnified the damage. Doesn't matter if if it's an excess of deprivation or indulgence and it covers more than material things - an excess of adulation has ruined quite a few people and many have been admired to death.

    Classes are really more of a symptom than anything else in this regard, aren't they? In an ideal society, they would not exist at all. Rank might, but it would come with the appropriate responsibility and expectations and a good deal less fuckery.

    @Bremenacht
    There are lots of things people are perfectly sensible to feel entitled to. Basics - shelter, food, water, companionship, decent treatment, freedom. The real problem is people taking more than the basics and preventing, or resenting the basics being given to other people.
  • disusedgenius 25 Sep 2012 20:47:50 8,206 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    It's again more the generalising I take issue with.
    Do you mean 'prejudice' in terms of generalising? Because generalising is kinda inevitable when you're trying to make some kind of conclusion from this kind of stuff.
  • thedaveeyres 25 Sep 2012 20:50:24 13,437 posts
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    Tops... Bottoms... Top-heavy greasy pole-climbers...


    I'm so hard right now.
  • Psychotext 26 Sep 2012 16:03:46 61,512 posts
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    Was just listening to Clegg talk and was pretty surprised at the rapturous applause. Can any Lib Dem supporter tell me what was so exciting / appealing about what he was saying?

    Really sounded like a whole lot of nothing / soundbite central to me.

    I also had to have a bit of a laugh that he's making out that they're responsible for putting the economy back on track. :D
  • TheSaint 26 Sep 2012 16:14:17 17,306 posts
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    Conference speeches are always the same.

    Next week Miliband will be applauded as if he is the greatest orator on the planet. Then something similar the following week with Cameron.
  • Psychotext 26 Sep 2012 16:17:39 61,512 posts
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    Fair enough. Some of the applause seemed to go on for an uncomfortably long time.
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