The UK General Politics Thread Page 42

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  • LeoliansBro 18 Sep 2012 12:38:11 35,897 posts
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    Fair - I'd say you learn the basics of economics with maths though.

    I wonder how much of it is to do with teachers not having to refresh their knowledge base though.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • LeoliansBro 18 Sep 2012 12:38:20 35,897 posts
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    Though.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • kalel 18 Sep 2012 12:39:46 77,130 posts
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    I wish I had learnt the basics of economics in maths. I agree you should do.
  • darkmorgado 18 Sep 2012 12:41:08 22,981 posts
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    The issue with politics as well is that large areas of the basics could be covered elsewhere - history, social education (or whatever its called), etc, and most of the rest of it is largely a point of view than anything offering a clear right or wrong.

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  • LeoliansBro 18 Sep 2012 12:41:53 35,897 posts
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    I learned the basis of (Reaganite) economics from Ferris Bueller's teacher.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • rudedudejude 18 Sep 2012 12:46:46 1,890 posts
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    And therin lies the rub! (not sure if that's appropriate but wanted to say that for ages)

    The problem is that this is assessment of knowledge (how is it most accurately assessed that a student 'knows' the things they have been taught and is not just remembering facts, but can apply that knowledge to new problems and challenges)

    The issue is - there is no known measure of success for methods of assessment. Can anyone say which method is better through evidence or results. What are our measures of success? The pass rate? The number that go on to Uni? Drop out numbers? GDP?

    How can conclusions be drawn or proposed when no-one knows how to measure if the outcome is successful or not? I guess it's down to personal opinion.

    It just seems like it should be something we can measure. Hell, maybe ask 10,000 teachers what they think, being their dayjob I suppose it's a start.

    (think I've had too much coffee today)
  • kalel 18 Sep 2012 12:52:37 77,130 posts
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    The quote is "Ay there's the rub". It's from Hamlet.

    /retained something from A-level English exam
  • Chopsen 18 Sep 2012 12:54:09 13,795 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Hence the preference for static subjects.
    No such thing, if you study it to a high enough level.

    Thanks for expressing interest in my signature!

  • kalel 18 Sep 2012 12:56:05 77,130 posts
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    Latin is pretty static.
  • LeoliansBro 18 Sep 2012 12:59:31 35,897 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Hence the preference for static subjects.
    No such thing, if you study it to a high enough level.
    Talking GCSEs. But yeah.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • senso-ji 18 Sep 2012 13:13:08 4,686 posts
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    This whole shake up is nothing more than Michale Gove getting one over his opponents and the teaching unions, who quite rightly stood up for GCSE's when he was criticising them when he was in the shadow cabinet.

    As for having one single exam to grade a pupil's education level; the Philosopher Calvin's opinion sums it up perfectly:

  • RobTheBuilder 18 Sep 2012 13:27:51 6,408 posts
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    @senso-ji As with everything Calvin says it best.
  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 18 Sep 2012 13:40:34 5,113 posts
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    Mind you, I question the value of a grounding knowledge of economics when the last five years seems to have demonstrated that much smarter people than me are unable to affect negative side effects in our economy..

    I appreciate that, in my understanding the core of economics is human decision making, what people spend money on etc, but still;

    The more strongly politicians and experts go on about what is wrong economically, the more wildly opposite the economy seems to react.

    /layman
  • RobTheBuilder 18 Sep 2012 13:42:48 6,408 posts
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    The problem is that the government have simply ignored all history and reliable thinking in their economic policy. They aren't smart, they are serving their own interests over the rest of the country.
  • LeoliansBro 18 Sep 2012 13:54:21 35,897 posts
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    That's quite an expansive statement to make in isolation.

    It almost qualifies as a Godwin-by-association.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • rudedudejude 18 Sep 2012 14:15:15 1,890 posts
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    I doubt very much that our best economic minds have been trying their upmost all these years to ensure the best for society and fair economic world stability, but I guess I'm just a skeptic.

    In many cases it's been in their interests to product negative side effects for the economy.
  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 18 Sep 2012 14:17:06 5,113 posts
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    I guess not. But surely the self interest is a happy society results in re-election and political survival?
  • RobTheBuilder 18 Sep 2012 15:20:43 6,408 posts
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    @LeoliansBro It's a very widespread statement indeed, but it essentially encompasses what's happened. Ignoring the evidence of previous recessions, previous budget cuts and the advice of numerous respected economic figures to go with an approach that has never previously worked.
  • darkmorgado 19 Sep 2012 05:05:32 22,981 posts
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    About damn time

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  • FWB 19 Sep 2012 08:29:50 39,238 posts
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    Managing 60 million people isn't easy. Satisfying them all: impossible So you do what comes naturally. Focus on your mates.
  • Tom_Servo 19 Sep 2012 18:17:51 13,413 posts
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    Nick Clegg apologises. This is definitely a good idea...

    Ha, it's a non-apology apology!

    Edited by Tom_Servo at 18:21:31 19-09-2012
  • Megapocalypse 19 Sep 2012 18:46:12 4,529 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    About damn time
    Its a nice headline for the government but I doubt it will actually change much. I can't speak for the counties, but domestic incidents in the Met are taken extremely seriously and the definition of a domestic incident has always included those factors. Not sure if I'm reading it 100% correct but this appears to just introduce them as new offences.

    However, increase offences and you increase amount of people getting arrested. Who's going to deal with the increased workload? I would guess the Met's DV units are the largest in the country and they are woefully understaffed (like every other unit). My area has a population of around 300,000. The DV unit consists of about 20 people including supervisors. At anyone time they will each be working on around 30 live investigations as well as preparing court cases. In the evenings when most incidents occur, there may be 3/4 people on. At weekends this will go down to 2.

    And still the government want to give us more to, reduce our numbers and then blame us when the shit hits the fan.
  • Psychotext 19 Sep 2012 18:47:18 49,584 posts
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    lol, "leave the comfort of opposition". People barely noticed them, let alone thought of them as any sort of coherent opposition.

    This post is sponsored by Apple and the iPhone 4S. Think different.

  • Bremenacht 19 Sep 2012 19:20:10 11,696 posts
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    Tom_Servo wrote:
    Nick Clegg apologises. This is definitely a good idea...

    Ha, it's a non-apology apology!
    Heh. "Please please please keep me as LD leader" is what I heard.
  • brokenkey 19 Sep 2012 19:23:34 6,382 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    About damn time
    First step towards making fifty shades of grey illegal
  • darkmorgado 19 Sep 2012 19:41:07 22,981 posts
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    Megapocalypse wrote:
    darkmorgado wrote:
    About damn time
    Its a nice headline for the government but I doubt it will actually change much. I can't speak for the counties, but domestic incidents in the Met are taken extremely seriously and the definition of a domestic incident has always included those factors. Not sure if I'm reading it 100% correct but this appears to just introduce them as new offences.

    However, increase offences and you increase amount of people getting arrested. Who's going to deal with the increased workload? I would guess the Met's DV units are the largest in the country and they are woefully understaffed (like every other unit). My area has a population of around 300,000. The DV unit consists of about 20 people including supervisors. At anyone time they will each be working on around 30 live investigations as well as preparing court cases. In the evenings when most incidents occur, there may be 3/4 people on. At weekends this will go down to 2.

    And still the government want to give us more to, reduce our numbers and then blame us when the shit hits the fan.
    RE definition of domestic incidents, the problem was/is mainly with the sentencing and prosecution guidelines rather than how the police handle it and that seems to be the primary focus of these changes (though both need improvement, ultimately its the prosecution and sentencing that was in the greatest need of improvement). Without a separately defined offense of domestic violence, judges and magistrates find themselves restricted to using the sentencing guides for other offences that might broadly fit with certain aspects of domestic abuse without being able to take in the broader impact and scope of it. These changes might give some leeway for sentences that better fit the nature of the abuse rather than giving out minor assault sentences for what was actually sustained abuse over a period of time with more than a simple physical aspect.

    On the other hand, the continued lack of a separately defined offense (which has the additional impact of making it difficult to gauge prevalence when it comes to crime stats), the continued restriction of the definition of domestic abuse simply to couples, and only extending it to 16-and-17 year olds seems somewhat at odds with the intent of these changes. But some progress is better than no progress.

    If that makes sense (and all IMO of course)

    Good question about resources - particularly in light of budget cuts.

    Sorry about the wall-o-text.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 19:43:00 19-09-2012

    Edited by darkmorgado at 19:45:04 19-09-2012

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  • Khanivor 19 Sep 2012 19:44:06 38,878 posts
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    re education assessments; surely folks are forgetting the main purpose of assessments is to make the children pay the slightest bit of attention and ensure they don't spend their entire school years learning SFA.
  • RobTheBuilder 19 Sep 2012 19:52:42 6,408 posts
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    Just come across this, how true, even more so now than when it first aired!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFcBRHC9MV0&feature=related
  • ResidentKnievel 19 Sep 2012 19:55:43 5,420 posts
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    Megapocalypse wrote:

    However, increase offences and you increase amount of people getting arrested. Who's going to deal with the increased workload?
    G4S

    morriss wrote: My actual real opinion is very insulting and unhelpful.

  • Megapocalypse 19 Sep 2012 19:56:46 4,529 posts
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    :(
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