The coalition NHS shakeup Page 2

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  • RedSparrows 18 Jan 2011 15:19:54 22,315 posts
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    Ah, the old maturity angle. I've seen that from old Buggery Baggers of the Economist, and now Cameron too.

    Essentially: 'we are giving you more choice. GROW UP AND USE IT.'
    'But I'm disputing whether your mantra of choice is really appropriate her-'
    'GROW UP, LABOURITE SCUM! IDEOLOGUE!!!'
  • thelzdking 18 Jan 2011 15:25:49 4,367 posts
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    Comments like that one stink of arrogance. It's that sort of self-importance that makes me dislike people.
  • RedSparrows 18 Jan 2011 15:27:52 22,315 posts
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    I'm alright Jack, fuck everyone else!
  • thelzdking 18 Jan 2011 15:32:28 4,367 posts
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    @RedSparrows

    That's the general stance of the rich and privileged who, unfortunately, run this country.
  • Tom_Servo 18 Jan 2011 15:34:08 17,548 posts
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    Smuggo wrote:
    Unfortunately I have to agree with the Bolsheviks here, though mainly because I'm surprised a GP can tie his own fucking shoelaces and there's no way you could trust him with doing the accounts.

    You seem to have this idea that all GPs are morons based on your GP being one.

    Oh you're probably just trolling, aren't you? Classic Smuggo.
  • LionheartDJH 18 Jan 2011 15:42:46 19,394 posts
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    thelzdking wrote:
    @RedSparrows

    That's the general stance of the rich and privileged who, unfortunately, run this country.

    Pfft, we know that's just a ruse to disguise who the real rulers are. You know what I'm talking about ;)

    She dives for cheese pasties

  • thelzdking 18 Jan 2011 15:48:05 4,367 posts
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    LionheartDJH wrote:
    thelzdking wrote:
    @RedSparrows

    That's the general stance of the rich and privileged who, unfortunately, run this country.

    Pfft, we know that's just a ruse to disguise who the real rulers are. You know what I'm talking about ;)
    No, I don't. On an entirely unrelated note I fancy a drink...
  • LionheartDJH 18 Jan 2011 15:51:34 19,394 posts
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    thelzdking wrote:
    LionheartDJH wrote:
    thelzdking wrote:
    @RedSparrows

    That's the general stance of the rich and privileged who, unfortunately, run this country.

    Pfft, we know that's just a ruse to disguise who the real rulers are. You know what I'm talking about ;)
    No, I don't. On an entirely unrelated note I fancy a drink...

    Sure, 'deny everything' is a good policy ;)

    Please don't drink my blood :(

    She dives for cheese pasties

  • spamdangled 18 Jan 2011 16:03:37 27,276 posts
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    LionheartDJH wrote:
    thelzdking wrote:
    @RedSparrows

    That's the general stance of the rich and privileged who, unfortunately, run this country.

    Pfft, we know that's just a ruse to disguise who the real rulers are. You know what I'm talking about ;)

    Lizard people?

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • spamdangled 18 Jan 2011 16:04:55 27,276 posts
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    Smuggo wrote:
    Unfortunately I have to agree with the Bolsheviks here, though mainly because I'm surprised a GP can tie his own fucking shoelaces and there's no way you could trust him with doing the accounts.

    Completely agree. Mine took 7 fucking months just to provide a letter to my work saying I was fit to start. How the hell he is going to manage with a budget in the tens of millions, I dont know.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • Chopsen 18 Jan 2011 16:06:05 15,871 posts
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    Maybe you weren't fit to start?

    This thread reads like its written by the aliens out of Galaxy Quest.
  • spamdangled 18 Jan 2011 16:07:22 27,276 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    Maybe you weren't fit to start?

    This thread reads like its written by the aliens out of Galaxy Quest.

    Yeah I was. He just left the request in his tray for 7 months because he was "too busy to deal with it" (his words).

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • Chopsen 18 Jan 2011 16:09:32 15,871 posts
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    Should have paid him more. That would have got his attention.
  • nickthegun 18 Jan 2011 16:10:56 59,497 posts
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    If you were my patient, I have a suspicion that things would take 7 months too...

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    He totally called it

  • RedSparrows 18 Jan 2011 16:11:44 22,315 posts
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    ahahahaha
  • dr_swin 18 Jan 2011 16:11:51 4,887 posts
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    The new changes are a joke. I feel it is just a ploy to shift the responsibility for making cuts, away from Government to someone else. The government keeps telling people, "who could be better to put in charge of the coffers than those clinicians that know where the money needs to be spent?" I say there is a hell of a difference between having a suspicion that mental health services are lacking in your area and could use some more investment and having the skill or knowledge to be able to decide which (if there are any) alternative service to procure for your patients.

    Besides. Surely one of the main facets to being a good manager is knowing how much stuff costs and whether it is good value for money. GP's traditionally have not been privvy to the costs of the services they use so have no concept of value. (excepting prescribing).

    It is a disaster potentially. Hopefully some of the more business savvy GP's will rise to the fore and make a decent fist of it, along with the experienced nhs managers they rescue from the remains of the PCTs. We have been here before however in the 90;s with GP fundholding. The NHS is in a state of constant rebuilding and totally at the whim of politicans that see it as a political football. I just wish they would leave the fucker alone.

  • dr_swin 18 Jan 2011 16:12:35 4,887 posts
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    Oh. and Smuggo. You're a Cunt.
  • thelzdking 18 Jan 2011 16:13:37 4,367 posts
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    LionheartDJH wrote:
    thelzdking wrote:
    LionheartDJH wrote:
    thelzdking wrote:
    @RedSparrows

    That's the general stance of the rich and privileged who, unfortunately, run this country.

    Pfft, we know that's just a ruse to disguise who the real rulers are. You know what I'm talking about ;)
    No, I don't. On an entirely unrelated note I fancy a drink...

    Sure, 'deny everything' is a good policy ;)

    Please don't drink my blood :(
    You'll be alright: I'll leave you enough so that a quick transfusion, administered at your local NHS hospital of course, will sort you out.
  • RedSparrows 18 Jan 2011 16:15:05 22,315 posts
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    AND THEN HE'LL BLOW UP THE HOSPITAL
  • RedSparrows 18 Jan 2011 16:16:34 22,315 posts
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    I wonder, would it be possible to bubble the NHS entirely for say, 20 years, and let it run under one scheme, rather than changing it every 4-10 years, contingent on the ideology of a particular Hayek-sucker or MARXISTBASTARD?
  • Chopsen 18 Jan 2011 16:19:37 15,871 posts
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    dr_swin wrote:
    The new changes are a joke. I feel it is just a ploy to shift the responsibility for making cuts, away from Government to someone else.

    Oh absolutely. There is actually a cut in absolute terms of the management budget per patient under the new system as well. It's as if they *want* GPs to fuck it up.

    I'm sure a small handful of GPs who have the aptitude for this soft of thing will step up to the mark and employ admin staff including managers to actually run the show. The GPs won't actually be doing anything different, I hope, apart from the few who don't really like being GPs and see this as an opportunity to do a sideways move.

    The best case scenario is "business as usual," which is daft, really.
  • Deleted user 18 January 2011 16:57:58
    LionheartDJH wrote:
    thelzdking wrote:
    @RedSparrows

    That's the general stance of the rich and privileged who, unfortunately, run this country.
    Pfft, we know that's just a ruse to disguise who the real rulers are. You know what I'm talking about ;)
    white mice? :s
  • MysteryLamb 18 Jan 2011 17:01:37 525 posts
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    Insidious plan to destroy the NHS (with education not far behind) and bring in the markets as the saviours.

    Ideology dressed up as pragmatism.

    Ironic that the banking crisis and a crisis of capitalism is actually strengthening neoliberalism across the west.
  • spamdangled 18 Jan 2011 17:02:39 27,276 posts
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    MysteryLamb wrote:
    Insidious plan to destroy the NHS (with education not far behind) and bring in the markets as the saviours.

    Ideology dressed up as pragmatism.

    Ironic that the banking crisis and a crisis of capitalism is actually strengthening neoliberalism across the west.

    +1

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • Dougs 20 Jan 2011 13:45:18 67,200 posts
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    Not quite the right thread, but jesus christ.
  • Chopsen 27 Jan 2011 22:06:22 15,871 posts
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    This may all turn out to be a waste of time.

    I was at a meeting this evening of county wide NHS bods, various chief execs, trust managers, armies of GPs and local consortia leads in waiting. Now, the jargon bit:

    Someone asked if the TUPE regulations apply to when the PCTs are dismantled and the consortia take things over. TUPE means anybody who works within the NHS means their post (inc pay, role, rights etc) is protected, regardless of what happens to their organisation. It's a bit more complicated than that, but that's the nub of it. The answer came from the local LMC guy, who'd been at a local GPC/BMA meeting where they consulted the BMA lawyers (translation: important local GP in political terms meets with lawyers employed by national GP organisation for legal advice).

    The answer to this was "Yes, TUPE applies".

    Now, this makes the whole thing completely pointless. Consortia have 3 choices:

    1. Keep the whole PCT with the same people on the same terms. Business as usual. Nothing has changed. Everything costs the same, but the route that the money takes has changed.

    2. Scorched earth. Don't have anything to do with the PCT and employ a completely new body of people who have no idea what the whole thing is about. Build it from the ground up, spend a fortune on training, compensating for inefficiencies, development etc.

    3. Force the PCTs hands to make massive redundancies. The cost of those redundancies completely fuck the PCT management budget which is already being aggressively cut. This means when the consortia take over they inherit a massive deficit and spend god knows how much public money on redundancy packages.

    Only option 1 makes any sense. Which basically "everything stay the same."

  • gang_of_bitches 27 Jan 2011 22:23:00 5,478 posts
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    ElNino9 wrote:
    My dad is a consultant anaesthetist, deputy medical director and Director of infection and prevention control, so I don't give a flying fuck, me and my immediate family will always get fantastic healthcare.

    /selfish

    Don't bank on it.

    My parents were both senior consultants, my father was medical director of 3 different trusts and chairman of the Royal College of Psychiatrists for the North West. Didn't stop my mother getting pretty atrocious care during a nearly 6 month stay in hospital last year where my father's (as it turned out entirely correct) input was dismissed at almost every turn.

    edit: shit, just realised I responded to an old post.
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