The coalition NHS shakeup Page 6

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  • MrTomFTW Moderator 20 Feb 2012 14:22:35 36,266 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    Big GLOL at Andrew Lansley getting a stern telling-off from a pensioner today.
    I just saw this, I had a good laugh at it as she was properly giving it some and he looked pretty flustered.

    I have such sympathy for the workers in the NHS though. Over the last two years I've spent a lot of time at Alder Hey and everyone we've dealt with has been absolutely fantastic. Yet everything they do is hamstrung by their targets and more importantly lack of funding. I can't imagine how frustrating this must all seem to the doctors and nurses actually having to deal with these decisions.

    I totally called it.
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  • spamdangled 20 Feb 2012 14:28:33 27,197 posts
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    The whole "we're only inviting people to the summit who already agree with us" bollocks is a bit arrogant as well. I see it's getting a pretty round kicking in the media. Mr Ed is certainly using it to score some easy points.

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  • MetalDog 20 Feb 2012 14:40:09 23,706 posts
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    This is still awesome.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • spamdangled 20 Feb 2012 14:43:23 27,197 posts
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    MetalDog wrote:
    This is still awesome.
    Not seen that before. I hate rap normally, but that's really good. Using House of Rising Sun is inspired.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • MightyMouse 20 Feb 2012 14:59:25 1,091 posts
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    I know this is small fry considering the big problems with the bill, but the most pathetic thing I've heard on this so far is David Cameron saying that it's "too late to change course". He's already simply ignoring everyone who disagrees with him, if he wanted to alter or scrap the bill he could just do it. Sure he couldn't care less about whether what he's doing will be good for anyone but him, but being a weasel as well makes him all the more contemptible.
  • spamdangled 20 Feb 2012 15:02:49 27,197 posts
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    Yeah. There's no such thing as "it's too late to change course".

    It's not like it's reached the stage where the NHS will suddenly spontaneously combust if the bill is scrapped.

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  • faux_carnation 20 Feb 2012 15:44:50 8,479 posts
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    He probably means it's too late to cancel all the backroom deals that have been made with private companies (presumably G4S) for when the changes come in.
  • MetalDog 20 Feb 2012 15:46:17 23,706 posts
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    faux_carnation wrote:
    He probably means it's too late to cancel all the backroom deals that have been made with private companies (presumably G4S) for when the changes come in.
    Probably this.

    Depressing, isn't it?

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • Chopsen 20 Feb 2012 16:16:52 15,120 posts
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    I think they just want the whole thing out of the way so it doesn't continue to cause embarrassment. Passing it as quickly ass possible is the only option, as dropping it will undermine their credibility. Maintaining credibility is far more important for a politician than actually doing the Right Thing.

    Freezing out the RCGP is weird though. They're not even opposed to the idea of NHS reform per se, and have even set up a Centre for Commissioning. They just disagree with some of the details of the reforms, and think they're harmful, and are proposing amendments.

    http://www.rcgp.org.uk/pdf/12-02-06%20RCGP%20HoL%20Report%20Stage%20Briefing.pdf?utm_campaign=RCGP_Update_%7C_17_February_2012&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=CM_RCGP
  • MetalDog 20 Feb 2012 16:23:35 23,706 posts
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    I think they're seriously underestimating how wound up about this whole thing people are going to get. Where the government has had real success in shafting services they've managed to build up public hate against them first - they can hardly build up sufficient public hate against the NHS, even if it has its flaws.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • Chopsen 20 Feb 2012 16:28:01 15,120 posts
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    That's why I think they're trying to give it to GPs while reducing funding: they're expecting them to it fuck up. Which they will, as they have no experience or training, and will also have less resources to do it with than the current PCT/clusters do.

    This will then allow them to say "well obviously they can't do it, lets give it to [private health care service that Landlesy/Cameron will mysteriously land nice little consultancy/board positions with after they leave government]"
  • MetalDog 20 Feb 2012 16:35:14 23,706 posts
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    But... we all suspect that's what they're up to. Do they think we're morons? We're not going to blame the GPs if it gets privatised, we're going to blame the cunts in charge.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • mal 20 Feb 2012 16:40:02 21,928 posts
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    Trouble is there's been a fair bit about NHS inefficiency in the papers recently, which I think was directly aimed at PCTs. From what I can tell there's a bit of buy-in for sorting out that mess, but it's difficult to argue for that without accidentally arguing for scrapping them and adopting Lansley's plan.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • disusedgenius 20 Feb 2012 16:41:29 5,140 posts
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    They don't even have to blame the GPs, tbh, they just have to allow the GPs to farm out the work to private companies.
  • MetalDog 20 Feb 2012 16:45:47 23,706 posts
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    I'd quite like the whole Tory adoration of fucking game theory and target-driven shit to get the fuck out of all our public services. Health, police, schooling, it seems to have done nothing but damage to all of them.

    Grr.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • oceanmotion 20 Feb 2012 16:46:19 15,243 posts
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    MetalDog wrote:
    But... we all suspect that's what they're up to. Do they think we're morons? We're not going to blame the GPs if it gets privatised, we're going to blame the cunts in charge.
    Has anyone come out and said that is the government's plan in the papers or TV ?

    If it's that obvious surely they would want the public to know what the government is planning and even get some responses from the politicians now rather than later. I haven't been following too closely so may have happened.
  • TheSaint 20 Feb 2012 16:48:28 13,629 posts
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    I think the biggest problem is that even people who have read the whole bill don't really understand what they are trying to do.

    I really don't buy all this stuff about them wanting to privatise the NHS.

    I've been lucky and not to have had much need for the NHS but in early December my girlfriend was rushed into hospital and the experience has been eye opening to say the least. Aside from the nurses on the ward and her GP who have been awesome the whole experience has been a bureaucratic nightmare. So far she has been signed off work for almost three months and still hasn't had a date for the relatively minor operation she needs before she can go back to work. Despite spending five days in hospital and a follow up appointment she has yet to even see the consultant.

    Luckily as a teacher she's off on full pay but being off this long would have cost me a fortune the whole experience has just convinced me that the NHS really needs to be reformed.

    First job once she is better is to take out some private health insurance.
  • MetalDog 20 Feb 2012 16:48:50 23,706 posts
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    I've heard quite a few medical representatives voice that opinion on Radio 4, I'm sure it's been voiced elsewhere.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • Chopsen 20 Feb 2012 16:53:02 15,120 posts
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    TheSaint wrote:
    First job once she is better is to take out some private health insurance.
    Good luck with that. Private Health Insurance in the UK is awful, as they know the NHS will pick it up if its not covered. I've got some through my wife's work and it actually offers me a worse service than the NHS. (And this isn't fanboyism, I tried using it and it was even more of a pain in the arse than an NHS referral, and I only would have got seen a week sooner).

    Also, saying "the NHS needs to be reformed" is a fairly empty statement. Generally there is agreement that the NHS needs to adapt to a changing world, but the problem with governments again and again is that they go "something must be done, this is something, lets do it." There's a very real risk that reform can make things worse.

    Edited by Chopsen at 16:55:50 20-02-2012
  • Bremenacht 20 Feb 2012 17:27:02 15,741 posts
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    MetalDog wrote:
    I'd quite like the whole Tory adoration of fucking game theory and target-driven shit to get the fuck out of all our public services. Health, police, schooling, it seems to have done nothing but damage to all of them.

    Grr.
    Sure, but it's a way of driving up GDP, which is all that matters to them. The NHS *will* be privatised, by hook or by crook, because it makes our economy look better. Whether it provides decent service or not is irrelevant, as long as it attracts 'investment'.

    Once an eagle taught me courage. And I will never forget that day

  • Spin_Dr_Wolf 21 Feb 2012 13:32:29 6,170 posts
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    No its not about GDP, its about personal wealth and politics. Cameron has been planning this since long before he got into No10, there is an interview somewhere with someone from the cabinet who admitted it. Look how many MPs and Lords stand to gain from privatising (which is what the bill is about)the NHS

    It's causing so much embarassment because no-one likes it, and the vast majority of NHS staff know it will be detrimental to care and will ultimately lead to a tier system where the wealthy will be seen quickly and the less well off will have to shutup and wait. Hence why they all hate him.
  • Tom_Servo 21 Feb 2012 13:34:32 15,505 posts
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    http://bengoldacre.posterous.com/the-nhsbill-will-make-patients-pay-for-things
  • Spin_Dr_Wolf 21 Feb 2012 16:56:27 6,170 posts
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    Heh i read that earlier this afternoon and was going to add it too. :D
  • MightyMouse 22 Feb 2012 00:02:03 1,091 posts
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    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/feb/21/doctor-nhs-reforms-disciplinary-action?CMP=twt_gu

    "The doctor has been told to attend a disciplinary hearing later this week by the NHS primary care trust (PCT) that employs him. It claims he breached the NHS code of conduct by airing his concerns."
  • Chopsen 22 Feb 2012 00:05:43 15,120 posts
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    /frantically starts deleting posts
  • Psychotext 22 Feb 2012 00:40:45 52,768 posts
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    Fucking ridiculous.
  • Clive_Dunn 25 Feb 2012 08:27:54 4,762 posts
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    I'm confused, is it the doctors or the politicians who are the "rich, heartless cunts" ?
  • fergal_oc 20 Mar 2012 15:28:52 2,763 posts
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    So we're now hours away before this thing will be set on a course to become law before the end of the week.

    To all of those who voted Tory or LibDem in the last election I solute you. It's funny how short people's memories are.

    NHS may you RIP!
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