The coalition NHS shakeup Page 5

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  • geeza2020 12 Oct 2011 16:20:00 1,888 posts
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    Are they going to make it so I can actually get an appointment with my GP within the same calender month I call to book it? Called to make an appointment on the 19th of September and was told I could only get an appointment on the 28th of October. Good job I'm not ill or anything, eh?

    The NHS is a fucking joke for someone like me who actually pays for it with taxes (and like many of you, I'm sure). Its a great deal for all these fuckers who contribute absolutely nothing to the state and just leech off the rest of us their entire lives, but these days, for anyone with even a low paid full time job (like me - sub 20K) its still better for me to pay a monthly amount to BUPA and get seen by a professional in a decent amount of time.

    Six weeks wait for a fucking GP appointment was the end of the NHS for me. I think they should at least put people who are in full time employment to the head of the cue for things. The NHS is nothing but a fucking drain to me.
  • Clive_Dunn 12 Oct 2011 16:32:04 4,782 posts
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    Thanks for that reasoned and well thought out argument on the future of the NHS Geeza2020.
  • Scurrminator 12 Oct 2011 16:35:22 8,437 posts
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    I have nothing but respect for the NHS. Always been good to me and my family when we've needed them.
    Maybe the fact you can't get an appointment is not their fault - maybe they need more money for such things.
    Why don't you go try healthcare in the states and then come back here.

    You dare to strike Scurrcules!?

  • RyanDS 12 Oct 2011 16:38:26 9,586 posts
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    Where do you live Geeza?

    I've lived in several places in the UK and have never waited more than 3 days for an appointment. (95% of the time same day if I call early.)

    Dental on the NHS is a different matter though. That is trully a joke, I am private as last time I looked there was a fucking years waiting list to get an NHS dentist in my area.
  • Scurrminator 12 Oct 2011 16:44:11 8,437 posts
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    My doctor I just turn up, you can't really make appointments. I turn up and the GP sees me in order of priority (kids first, fair enough).
    They are also open till around 7:30 which is appointment only for those that cannot get out of work.

    You dare to strike Scurrcules!?

  • Dougs 12 Oct 2011 16:58:04 68,432 posts
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    Experienced the same as geeza in London. You'd have to go as an emergency if you wanted to be seen quickly. In general though I have nothing bad to say about the NHS, been brilliant every time I've needed them. My fear is that we won't be saying that if these proposals go through. Disappointed
  • chopsen 12 Oct 2011 19:10:18 16,126 posts
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    @geeza2020

    That's a pretty poor service. I'd ask to talk to the practice manager about their appointments system to explain your frustrations. All GP practices run their own system for appointments and availability. I'd hope that if you were actually "ill or something" you'd be seen sooner. By necessity demand for appointments has to be prioritised as they are a limited resource.

    Regarding if this will improve with the reforms - I can guarantee they won't. The reforms go along with a real cut in funding, and GPs are expected also to run the commissioning side of things as well. So there will be less money to pay for GP man-hours, and GPs will have to divert a larger proportion of that time away from seeing patients to the job of rebuilding organisations akin to the PCTs which are being abolished.

    Ho hum.
  • Dougs 12 Oct 2011 19:39:22 68,432 posts
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    And employing those laid off by pcts who know procurement!
  • chopsen 12 Oct 2011 19:44:44 16,126 posts
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    Quite. We end up where we started, having pissed up a load of money against the wall just to change job titles and lines of accountability. Again.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1299350/?tool=pubmed
  • Dougs 12 Oct 2011 20:01:37 68,432 posts
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    Frustrates the fuck out of me, was so obvious what would happen. The alternative is trained senior GPs becoming even more embroiled in management and bureaucracy.Barmy
  • shamblemonkee 6 Jan 2012 12:16:10 14,485 posts
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    David Cameron wrote:
    Patients should expect nurses to undertake regular nursing rounds - systematically and routinely checking that each of their patients is comfortable, properly fed and hydrated, and treated with the dignity and respect they deserve
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/8996771/David-Cameron-There-is-a-real-problem-with-nursing-in-our-hospitals.html

    shit, i'm sure the nurses will love him for this. Cameron is a genius.

    no word on the reason why nurses can't spare the time to do this curerntly (skeleton stafifng of wards, paperwork) yet or the levels of nurses per patient, the downgrading of jobs to push tasks to lower qualified 'nurses' or carer assistants.....

    i'm hoping that's just the headline grabbing and there's some actual proper reform underneath.
  • FWB 6 Jan 2012 12:21:15 44,839 posts
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    A number of them had been given specialised positions where they get a nice sum to do sweet FA. 70k a year to be a death communications officer?! WTF? Doctors are trained to do that.

    I've also heard - from those working in the NHS - that foreign nurses, despite being qualified and experienced in their home countries, are not allowed to do minor procedures here until they've gone through our bureaucratic bullshit.

    Edited by FWB at 12:23:52 06-01-2012
  • Scurrminator 6 Jan 2012 12:25:16 8,437 posts
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    shamblemonkee wrote:
    David Cameron wrote:
    Patients should expect nurses to undertake regular nursing rounds - systematically and routinely checking that each of their patients is comfortable, properly fed and hydrated, and treated with the dignity and respect they deserve
    How about treating the Nurses with the dignity and respect they deserve and not slagging them off Mr PM!

    Edited by Scurrminator at 12:25:33 06-01-2012

    You dare to strike Scurrcules!?

  • TheSaint 6 Jan 2012 12:27:53 14,618 posts
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    I heard the interview and he was very complimentary about the majority of nurses. He said he had witnessed the excellent care they provided first hand but you only have to hear some of the horror stories to realise that not everyone gets that kind of treatment.

    Personally I have great respect for the jobs nurses do but it would be crazy to think that some areas couldn't be improved.
  • shamblemonkee 6 Jan 2012 12:35:38 14,485 posts
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    Yeah, i don't think there can be any doubt that the NHS need smajor kick up the arse but you can't just say it's the nurses fault you need to look at the reason why nurses can't / aren't giving the desired level of care.

    3 of my relatives were nurses and the unifying theme of the last ten years has been cuts to the number of qualified nurses on duty combined with an increase in the number of patients has been required to look after. this makes the job hugely stressful with staff often not having time for meal breaks as they struggle to even provide any level of care to each patient.
  • disusedgenius 6 Jan 2012 12:43:24 5,431 posts
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    shamblemonkee wrote:
    no word on the reason why nurses can't spare the time to do this curerntly (skeleton stafifng of wards, paperwork) yet or the levels of nurses per patient, the downgrading of jobs to push tasks to lower qualified 'nurses' or carer assistants.....
    From the BBC story:
    Central to his plan to tackle the problem is the Time to Care initiative, which is already being rolled out across hospital trusts.

    The NHS-backed programme has been designed to give hospitals advice and support on how to redesign their systems so that staff are freed up to improve the care they provide to patients.

    All trusts will be expected to be involved in this by 2013.
    I dunno, seems to me that most groups seem happy with this, just as long as the cuts don't get to them by lowering staff levels and so on. Obviously Labour are trying to point-score, but even that seems a little half hearted.
  • FWB 6 Jan 2012 12:45:24 44,839 posts
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    I have a suggestion... fire the ton of useless admin that do absolutely FA aside from protecting their own jobs at the expense of front line staff.
  • speedofthepuma 6 Jan 2012 12:46:09 13,304 posts
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    That's what this reform was meant to do.

    I lurk. If I've spoken to you, I'm either impassioned, or drunk.

  • FWB 6 Jan 2012 12:48:39 44,839 posts
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    Except it won't, because they'll give the job of doing that to the very people who should go.
  • speedofthepuma 6 Jan 2012 12:50:24 13,304 posts
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    Nope, just as a concept it is too simplistic. Unlike my solution which is in no way over simplistic and would solve everything: remove the NHS from direct government control.

    I lurk. If I've spoken to you, I'm either impassioned, or drunk.

  • craigy Staff 6 Jan 2012 12:54:18 7,722 posts
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    Ah right, it's the nurses that are the thing that's wrong with the NHS. Thanks for clearing that up, Cameron.

    From the article: "Members of the public will also be able to take part in inspections of wards to see if they are clean enough". The majority of cleanliness issues on wards arise from allowing the public to traipse about wards, bringing in germs from the outside, sitting on beds with their feet, etc. What do the public know about cleanliness?

    My local hospital has just been given stupid operating targets that mean patients are whizzing in and out of theatre faster than is safe, as the turnaround is apparently too slow at present. How is that in keeping with ensuring patient dignity, comfort, and respect?

    gaahhhh
  • Scurrminator 6 Jan 2012 12:55:38 8,437 posts
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    How about you fire one or two of the upper NHS management from each hospital which would free up funds for around 100 nurses per hospital going by some of the salaries!

    You dare to strike Scurrcules!?

  • shamblemonkee 6 Jan 2012 13:06:18 14,485 posts
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    @disusedgenius good, i'm glad that there is slightly more depth to this than the telegraph story and the PMs speech
  • chopsen 6 Jan 2012 19:36:39 16,126 posts
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    speedofthepuma wrote:
    Nope, just as a concept it is too simplistic. Unlike my solution which is in no way over simplistic and would solve everything: remove the NHS from direct government control.
    That is *sort* of what they're trying to do, except they expect a bunch of GPs and other randoms with no training or experience who have better things to be doing to do it instead. Meanwhile make a whole army of administrators, and managers and other associated staff redundant for no real reason.

    They should have just removed direct control by the govt and let everything else the fuck alone, reassigned accountability to someone else (cf BBC Trust in another industry, but with more local accountability in the NHS's case), and allowed it to develop rationally from there. Add a *small* dollop of free-market forces (actually rational ones, not chooseandbooklol), and you're done. Piece of piss.

    Edited by Chopsen at 19:46:10 06-01-2012
  • Deleted user 6 January 2012 19:46:47
    So they're cutting out the middle men? Makes sense - unless I'm completely mis-reading this.
  • chopsen 6 Jan 2012 20:29:22 16,126 posts
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    CrispyXUK wrote:
    So they're cutting out the middle men? Makes sense - unless I'm completely mis-reading this.
    No. They're cutting everyone. There's still going to be a lot of managing to do, even if there is some dead weight. Someone has to do it. Do you want your consultant managing the payroll or do you want him seeing patients?

    Edited by Chopsen at 20:29:55 06-01-2012
  • spamdangled 20 Feb 2012 14:01:58 27,413 posts
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    Big GLOL at Andrew Lansley getting a stern telling-off from a pensioner today.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • TheSaint 20 Feb 2012 14:11:02 14,618 posts
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    Former employee of Unison in disagreeing with Tory plans shock.
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