Forza 4 Page 3

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  • SomaticSense 14 Dec 2010 12:56:35 8,678 posts
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    Start penalising the AI for whacking me, instead of giving ME the penalty, and I might consider getting it!Really, really annoyed me in the last two games.

    As did the 'less then 200 yards in front of the opponent = invalid lap time' bullshit. I'm a motorsport geek, and so know that being in someone's draft can give you an advantage, but not in FRONT of someone! Stupid.
  • ronuds 14 Dec 2010 16:17:30 21,788 posts
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    Zerobob wrote:
    Lack of weather doesn't exactly add to the overall feeling that F3 is a showcase racing game for the X360, but then I'm not sure if I like weather effects. Yes, rain and night time can change things up a bit, but in my experience its annoying when its randomly raining and/or its dark half the bloody time on otherwise great tracks. I mean most actual motorsport doesn't take place in harsh conditions or at night, apart from endurance racing! In Red Dead redemption, for example, I hated it when glorious sunny vistas were ruined more than half the time by rain and darkness...bring on the horrible muddy textures! Such a waste.

    This! I don't watch much stock car racing, but every other type in the sport seems to not race in the rain or at night. Why, then, is it a necessity when it doesn't even happen in reality?

    I can't stand darkness or rain in video games - never liked it a bit. When I play games with day/night/weather cycles, I only like being about in the day and when the sun is out.
  • altitude2k 14 Dec 2010 16:21:04 4,566 posts
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    SomaticSense wrote:
    Start penalising the AI for whacking me, instead of giving ME the penalty, and I might consider getting it!Really, really annoyed me in the last two games.

    As did the 'less then 200 yards in front of the opponent = invalid lap time' bullshit. I'm a motorsport geek, and so know that being in someone's draft can give you an advantage, but not in FRONT of someone! Stupid.

    I think that might be a cheap and easy way of preventing people from using a quick shunt from a faster car to gain speed.
  • Psychotext 14 Dec 2010 16:24:37 54,391 posts
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    Yeah, in Forza one a lot of the leaderboard times were set by cars being pushed around the track.
  • ronuds 14 Dec 2010 16:28:16 21,788 posts
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    Huh?
  • Psychotext 14 Dec 2010 16:29:24 54,391 posts
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    Imagine a shitbox class D car, now stick a LMP1 behind it pushing it down the straights.
  • ronuds 14 Dec 2010 16:34:03 21,788 posts
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    Well, I wasn't sure what "one a lot of the" exactly meant. Now I understand you mean the original Forza. :p
  • Psychotext 14 Dec 2010 16:38:04 54,391 posts
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    You're right, Forza 1 is probably easier to read.
  • ModishNouns 14 Dec 2010 16:55:20 4,656 posts
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    ronuds wrote:
    Zerobob wrote:
    Lack of weather doesn't exactly add to the overall feeling that F3 is a showcase racing game for the X360, but then I'm not sure if I like weather effects. Yes, rain and night time can change things up a bit, but in my experience its annoying when its randomly raining and/or its dark half the bloody time on otherwise great tracks. I mean most actual motorsport doesn't take place in harsh conditions or at night, apart from endurance racing! In Red Dead redemption, for example, I hated it when glorious sunny vistas were ruined more than half the time by rain and darkness...bring on the horrible muddy textures! Such a waste.

    This! I don't watch much stock car racing, but every other type in the sport seems to not race in the rain or at night. Why, then, is it a necessity when it doesn't even happen in reality?

    I can't stand darkness or rain in video games - never liked it a bit. When I play games with day/night/weather cycles, I only like being about in the day and when the sun is out.

    I hated the night tracks in GT2/4 and weather in PGR4 was a novelty to turn on for a change once in a while. If they leave weather and night driving out again I won't miss it.

    Bring me sunshine.

    Edit: Wrestling that old open wheeled racing car around the Ring in the snow in PGR 4 was ace, though.
  • shamblemonkee 14 Dec 2010 17:01:24 14,481 posts
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    Wet / damp races happen all the time... in all formulas..

    Bathurst 1000
    BTCC
    GT 2 class
    GT3 class
    WRC
  • ronuds 14 Dec 2010 17:04:17 21,788 posts
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    What about night or snow?
  • shamblemonkee 14 Dec 2010 17:07:34 14,481 posts
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    couldn't give a shit about that, night races happen but are rare enough that the omission doesn't bother me, especially when a night race has to be illuminated enough that it looks like day any way....

    snow.. only relevant for rallying if that's in game i'd expect it.

    Rain however i think is a huge omission.
  • brokenkey 14 Dec 2010 17:10:37 7,086 posts
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    Have we got a spare button for windscreen wipers on/off?

    3DS 3497-0122-1484
    XBL/PSN/NNID: CptnBrokenkey

  • shamblemonkee 14 Dec 2010 17:14:19 14,481 posts
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    You will have to blink to turn them on and off, or shake your head to activate them in layout 2.... truth.
  • ronuds 14 Dec 2010 17:15:07 21,788 posts
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    Well, if it happens in reality, I guess rain should be added to the game, imo.

  • RobTheBuilder 14 Dec 2010 17:19:02 6,521 posts
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    I like weather for multiplayer, adds a bit of variety.
    They really should be able to program the game to know the difference between being slightly bumped by a car ad being dragged up a straight by a U class monster.
  • ronuds 14 Dec 2010 17:21:25 21,788 posts
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    Yeah, I'd like to see the penalties lessened a bit more, but then you know someone will find a way to take advantage and ruin it for everyone.

    But, yeah, it's quite the filthy bitch trying to run a perfect race. For me, anyway.
  • AaronTurner 14 Dec 2010 17:29:59 7,785 posts
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    altitude2k wrote:
    SomaticSense wrote:
    Start penalising the AI for whacking me, instead of giving ME the penalty, and I might consider getting it!Really, really annoyed me in the last two games.

    As did the 'less then 200 yards in front of the opponent = invalid lap time' bullshit. I'm a motorsport geek, and so know that being in someone's draft can give you an advantage, but not in FRONT of someone! Stupid.

    I think that might be a cheap and easy way of preventing people from using a quick shunt from a faster car to gain speed.

    Being in front of someone does give you an advantage, it creates less drag at the back end of your car.
  • FooAtari 14 Dec 2010 18:18:56 3,955 posts
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    ronuds wrote:
    This! I don't watch much stock car racing, but every other type in the sport seems to not race in the rain or at night. Why, then, is it a necessity when it doesn't even happen in reality?

    Got that the wrong way round to an extent. Most stock car racing, due to being run on ovals, doesn't run in the wet. Just about every other form of racing does. True night racing i.e. the track isn't lit enough to make the night spectacle pointless, is mostly limited to endurance racing and rallying.
  • secombe 14 Dec 2010 18:41:40 1,331 posts
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    I don't think a game has ever captured anything like a realistic in car sound, rattles, transmission whine etc. Race cars have no sound-deadening, yet you only ever hear engine noise in games.

    Night racing I can live without, there are 2 or 3 night races annually in the UK (and almost nobody actually goes along to watch), and not a huge number globally , yet everyone seems to 'need' it in driving games, very odd.

    Rain is an absolute must, as a Castle Combe Season Pass holder I can confirm it rains (and occasionally snows) or is at least damp for a good 50% of a racing season :)
  • Collymilad 14 Dec 2010 18:56:45 1,266 posts
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    I think NFS Shift was pretty good for the in car environment thing, but then i've never been in many racing cars so not too sure :p
  • corstick 14 Dec 2010 19:05:52 3,263 posts
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    Night racing would be nice but not of any great priority. Having said that though, one of my favourite races ever was a 10x time accelerated 24 hour race around Spa in GTR2. Wacthing the sun gradually set each lap as you power along the Kemmel Straight before finally having to break out the headlights provided an epic backdrop for racing.

    True dynamic weather is a must for me in a modern sim racing game. Rain on/off simply wouldn't cut the mustard. Changing conditions adds so much depth to longer races and goes a long way toward creating the true racing experience which is an area that Forza does a poor job of at the moment.
  • ronuds 14 Dec 2010 19:09:55 21,788 posts
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    FooAtari wrote:
    ronuds wrote:
    This! I don't watch much stock car racing, but every other type in the sport seems to not race in the rain or at night. Why, then, is it a necessity when it doesn't even happen in reality?

    Got that the wrong way round to an extent. Most stock car racing, due to being run on ovals, doesn't run in the wet. Just about every other form of racing does. True night racing i.e. the track isn't lit enough to make the night spectacle pointless, is mostly limited to endurance racing and rallying.

    I know - someone already pointed out that I was wrong. Thanks for rubbing it in more! :p
  • shamblemonkee 14 Dec 2010 19:47:05 14,481 posts
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    here's some salt for that wound :p
  • shamblemonkee 14 Dec 2010 19:47:06 14,481 posts
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    here's some salt for that wound :p
  • SomaticSense 15 Dec 2010 11:09:56 8,678 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    Yeah, in Forza one a lot of the leaderboard times were set by cars being pushed around the track.

    How exactly can a car 200 yards behind me give me a shove to go quicker? Why not just keep the penalty for cars actually making contact? And more to the point, why the fuck is it also in the single player mode?

    It's a bollocks solution. So many of my legitimitely fast laps have been dumped down the leaderboard because of some stupid, unfair, and inelegant solution to a cheating problem which can only possibly occur in multiplayer. Basically, you have to have a car which is SO MUCH faster than the rest to even have a chance of being far enough ahead to set what the game feels is a clean lap.

    "Sorry Vettel, but you weren't far enough ahead of Alonso when you set the race's fastest lap time. So it's invalid. Instead it's going to Yamamoto, who was the only one to set what we class as a clean lap time, because he was so far behind everybody. Sorry."
  • altitude2k 15 Dec 2010 11:44:59 4,566 posts
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    PGR4's weather was superb. It didn't necessarily make the game harder, it just made you approach your racing style differently. Which was a good thing.

    There's too many racing games out there where adding weather does nothing more than making it slippery.

    I hope Forza goes along the lines of the former rather than the latter.
  • motti82 15 Dec 2010 11:56:35 2,895 posts
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    I liked the way that PGR4 had the puddles and made you race differently rather than drifting around each corner as these wet patches would punish you.
  • Psychotext 16 Dec 2010 03:13:44 54,391 posts
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    SomaticSense wrote:
    How exactly can a car 200 yards behind me give me a shove to go quicker? Why not just keep the penalty for cars actually making contact? And more to the point, why the fuck is it also in the single player mode?
    200 yards behind you? It can't, however...

    The combined effects of drafting mean that a pair of cars driving one behind the other can go as much as five miles per hour (about eight kph) faster than either car driving alone. Add another car behind the trailing car, and the effects get even more pronounced.

    Basically you share the effects of the reduced air resistance / turbulence.
  • SomaticSense 16 Dec 2010 10:51:15 8,678 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    The combined effects of drafting mean that a pair of cars driving one behind the other can go as much as five miles per hour (about eight kph) faster than either car driving alone. Add another car behind the trailing car, and the effects get even more pronounced.

    Basically you share the effects of the reduced air resistance / turbulence.

    Sorry, but I call BS. All my years as an F1 geek says that's aerodynamically impossible.

    But anyway, the point still stands. The penalty for being ahead of a car should never be applied in single player, or for cars so far ahead that any advantage is impossible.

    edit: Like I was suggesting in my tongue-in-cheek quote earlier, why does Turn 10 feel the need to have such obscene, draconian, and plain unfair penalties to govern valid/invalid lap times, when the rest of the real motorsport world copes just fine without them? When are the FIA going to start telling drivers that they now have to be at least 300 yards ahead in order to post a valid lap time?
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