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  • nickthegun 27 Nov 2012 16:12:31 59,315 posts
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    But if you were the villa manager, surely you would have at least put him on the bench?

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    He totally called it

  • ecureuil 27 Nov 2012 16:13:13 76,647 posts
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    Dougs wrote:
    Great article on punditry:

    Gary Neville's punditry is the best, but others need to raise their game | Michael Cox

    http://gu.com/p/3c5a6
    Next time Sky have Gary alongside Jamie Redknapp in the studio, just pay a little more attention to Jamie. He gets a bit of a Neviller contact high and tries to raise his game and it's really obvious at times.
  • Mr_Sleep 27 Nov 2012 16:15:04 16,920 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    But if you were the villa manager, surely you would have at least put him on the bench?
    I'm not sure. Maybe. Even thoguh he has been shit he has still chimed in with a few goals, more than most of the team, so indeed it might be good for a super sub or something but he hasn't shown enough to warrant that and I think Lambert is intent on freezing him out the same as he did with Warnock and Hutton.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • DJCopa 27 Nov 2012 16:19:18 1,056 posts
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    I read or heard on radio that there was some minor altercation between Lambert and Bent a while back. Bent then played in the next game, scored and ran right up to Lambert basically rubbing his nose in it - Apparently hasn't played since.

    Does this ring any bells Mr_Sleep? Think it was discussed on TalkSport with Matt Holland, who is Bents mate.
  • Mr_Sleep 27 Nov 2012 16:22:43 16,920 posts
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    Aye, that is one way to interpret what happened. I think he may have played at least one game since then but it does seem significant that Bent celebrated in such a clearly obnoxious way and now Lambert doesn't pick him.

    I'm with Lambert on this, up to a point. If it means relegation because of Lambert's pride then perhaps he needs to rethink things but if Bent is that much of a knob to not take criticism then it's possible he's just another poisonous character like Warnock or Hutton that should have no part to play at Villa.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • DJCopa 27 Nov 2012 16:26:14 1,056 posts
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    Agree with that - My team has picked up some of your sh*t anyway - Forest have got Hutton on loan, which (imo) is probably his level, so should do well.
    Villa is an enigma to me - Really good players and team not that long ago, and now struggling, albeit down to a crappy manager (McLeish)!
  • Shikasama 27 Nov 2012 16:30:39 6,700 posts
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    I can personally vouch that Lambert has a hell of an ego on him and any player that does him in the way you've just described won't end well for the player. Stubborn as hell as well.
  • Gartt 27 Nov 2012 16:32:04 1,735 posts
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    I do like that that the Villa have finally seemed to bed in all our promising youth from a few years ago, Clark, Bannan, Weimann, Lichaj, all look comfortable at premier level now. Im particularly pleased to see Weimann given a good run.

    Dunno whats happened with Albrighton though, not a good fit with the current formation?
  • thedaveeyres 27 Nov 2012 16:33:20 10,807 posts
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    I long for the day when Lambert hires Paul Butler as assistant manager.

    D****** ******r

    XBLA: Hamster Trippin
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    PSN: HamsterTrippin

  • Mr_Sleep 27 Nov 2012 16:38:14 16,920 posts
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    DJCopa wrote:
    Agree with that - My team has picked up some of your sh*t anyway - Forest have got Hutton on loan, which (imo) is probably his level, so should do well.
    Hah, so true. Hutton does have his moments as a player but they tend to be outweighed by the negative.

    Villa is an enigma to me - Really good players and team not that long ago, and now struggling, albeit down to a crappy manager (McLeish)!
    I reckon it's going to happen to a few of the more established premier league sides too. Pushing for success and not quite getting there can sometimes be very detrimental. I'm not sure our players were ever quite the class that the club and fans thought they were. See Milner, Downing and Young, all three have been found out to some degree. I think the last properly quality player Villa had was Barry.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • Mr_Sleep 27 Nov 2012 16:40:35 16,920 posts
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    Gartt wrote:
    I do like that that the Villa have finally seemed to bed in all our promising youth from a few years ago, Clark, Bannan, Weimann, Lichaj, all look comfortable at premier level now. Im particularly pleased to see Weimann given a good run.
    Yeah, definitely, Lichaj is the only one who doesn't quite seem right, his form is so suspect as he never gets a consistent go. He had one of the best games against Bale I have ever seen a while back and then the next match he was terrible so it's hard to know with him.

    Dunno whats happened with Albrighton though, not a good fit with the current formation?
    It could be that or it could just be a lack of form, he seems to have lost the spark that made him so exciting and after that his form has just gone down the toilet. Last season really hindered him a great deal.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • Shikasama 27 Nov 2012 16:44:21 6,700 posts
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    I think with the 'pack' these things are always destined to be cyclical. You've got a fair few teams with similar resources and similar squad levels in the middle part of the table. One team will hit a patch of form and confidence when everything goes right for them and separate themselves, but that leads to players moving on/wages getting higher/personalities in the boardroom clashing and they move back into the pack whilst someone else moves in.

    Villa, Everton, Newcastle, Spurs and now West Brom have experienced this over the last 10 years or so I think but it is one of those things that fans of clubs don't like to accept. It takes huge resources to actually maintain that level and getting ahead of the pack can crush you under its success. Might be the season after or you might get a good 2/3 years but thats how it seems to me.
  • faux_carnation 27 Nov 2012 16:59:35 9,167 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    My view on Bent has not changed one iota. I love the idea of Liverpool buying him.
    I really can't see it happening. Despite his shortcomings it would've made sense last year, but with Rodgers' system, a player like Bent really wouldn't fit.

    Tbh we need players who can play all three front positions, not a goalhanging striker. That's why the Walcott move would make sense (not that i believe it'll happen though.)
  • kalel 27 Nov 2012 17:14:53 86,743 posts
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    Shikasama wrote:
    I think with the 'pack' these things are always destined to be cyclical. You've got a fair few teams with similar resources and similar squad levels in the middle part of the table. One team will hit a patch of form and confidence when everything goes right for them and separate themselves, but that leads to players moving on/wages getting higher/personalities in the boardroom clashing and they move back into the pack whilst someone else moves in.

    Villa, Everton, Newcastle, Spurs and now West Brom have experienced this over the last 10 years or so I think but it is one of those things that fans of clubs don't like to accept. It takes huge resources to actually maintain that level and getting ahead of the pack can crush you under its success. Might be the season after or you might get a good 2/3 years but thats how it seems to me.
    Obviously I'm going to be a bit defensive about this and probably fall straight into your category of being a fan that can't accept reality, but I'm not quite sure what you're on about here. We've been in the top five, five times in the last seven years (twice in the top four), and our financial position has steadily improved over that period.
  • King_Edward 27 Nov 2012 17:17:31 11,454 posts
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    Yeah, I wouldn't lump Spurs in with us.
  • kalel 27 Nov 2012 17:22:42 86,743 posts
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    Equally West Brom seem a little premature in that list.
  • Shikasama 27 Nov 2012 17:25:58 6,700 posts
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    No I think that is fair enough Kalel, I was more thinking of the 4th/5th/4th in relation to Everton and Villa's period and Newcastle finishing 5th last season. Now with a manager change and some of the top players moving on you are becoming less of a clear runner for that spot so get shuffled back into the pack slightly. Just saw it as quite a neat comparison

    Although you could consider 5th as finishing top of the 'pack' I suppose with it being Champions League - Everyone Else - Relegation Candidates
  • kalel 27 Nov 2012 17:30:32 86,743 posts
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    It's all getting a bit muddied now anyway. City have fucked it all up and Liverpool have thrown their top four status in the bin, and Chelsea finished 6th last year and Arsenal keep threatening to drop out the top four.

    It's not quite the same as it was just two or three years ago when the top four were the top four, and the chasing pack were all well defined.
  • Shikasama 27 Nov 2012 17:30:36 6,700 posts
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    I think basically the point I was making is that for the teams below the top four but above the bottom six, you're looking at them hitting their player recruitment apex every couple of years and enjoying some success before those players/managers move on to bigger and brighter things.

    So you get clubs hitting 5th/4th and playing good football, becoming 'the team to beat'. The fans love it but then expect more of it which, because of the similarity of resources, is always going to be difficult/impossible for an extended period. Then you have to spend a few years recovering from losing those players/managers/board members until you hit THAT first 11 again
  • jamievilla 27 Nov 2012 17:33:56 510 posts
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    I heard a rumour that we were due to pay Sunderland a rather hefty appearance for Bent, but not sure if that's just nonsense or for real. I'm of the opinion that he just doesn't fit our style any more, great for finishing the chances, but nothing else.

    Hopeful for the future, tonight will be a big test for our season though.
  • Mr_Sleep 27 Nov 2012 17:41:00 16,920 posts
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    Shikasama wrote:
    I think basically the point I was making is that for the teams below the top four but above the bottom six, you're looking at them hitting their player recruitment apex every couple of years and enjoying some success before those players/managers move on to bigger and brighter things.
    That has certainly happened to Villa. Spurs managed to avoid that last season and if it wasn't for some unfortunate circumstances then arguably they would have continued their upwards trend.

    Still, I take the general point, the best of the rest is a pretty poisoned chalice, especially where it concerns the Europa league, I really do hope that the governing body figure out that the cup is crap and do something about it.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • nickthegun 27 Nov 2012 17:41:34 59,315 posts
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    24m wasnt his final fee was it? It was 'up to 24m' so that may not be a million miles away from the truth.

    I remember us letting luke varney rot for half a dozen games as one appearence would have triggered a half million pound payment to charlton.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    He totally called it

  • kalel 27 Nov 2012 17:49:17 86,743 posts
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    @Shikasama

    I get what you're saying, there is definitely a cycle that it's possible to fall into. I think it was something more common a few years back though. Teams seem to be learning how to avoid it now (i.e. plan and buy well).
  • Mr_Sleep 27 Nov 2012 17:49:53 16,920 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    24m wasnt his final fee was it? It was 'up to 24m' so that may not be a million miles away from the truth.
    Yeah, I think it started at 18 million and then went up to 24 based on some contract stuff. So it could be the case, especially if we're looking to get rid.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • jamievilla 27 Nov 2012 18:01:38 510 posts
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    Well it's on FM2013! Shame really, suppose we'll see with tonight's game.
  • Orange 27 Nov 2012 18:31:16 4,703 posts
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20509582
    Surely he will sign at least one more longterm deal with Arsenal?
  • Gambit1977 27 Nov 2012 18:36:51 9,583 posts
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    Mr_Sleep wrote:
    nickthegun wrote:
    24m wasnt his final fee was it? It was 'up to 24m' so that may not be a million miles away from the truth.
    Yeah, I think it started at 18 million and then went up to 24 based on some contract stuff. So it could be the case, especially if we're looking to get rid.
    This is true. In fact, there's one of those daft rumours about him coming back so you don't have to pay :lol:

    He'd be booed to high heaven mind. Thing is. We saw him do what he's done at your place. I wouldn't be surprised if a manager/board members daughter was involved ;)
  • cheeky_prawnking 27 Nov 2012 18:51:12 4,386 posts
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    Maybe he thought Randy Lerner was something to work through.
  • convz 27 Nov 2012 19:11:45 372 posts
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    When is Gary Neville usually on Sky doing his analysis? I know he's often on before the game on a Monday night, but if (like last night) there's no game on, is there no Neville?
  • fletch7100 27 Nov 2012 19:17:05 7,126 posts
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    BBC 6 pm news covered the Joey Barton French accent interview. BBC called Joey Barton skillful . Nearly choked on my dinner when I heard that

    Note to BBC news, when you do a funny story the punchline is meant to be at the end
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