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  • The-Bodybuilder 5 Nov 2012 17:45:25 14,293 posts
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    Dougs wrote:
    Looks worse every time I see it:

    http://bit.ly/TrWhUS
    Indeed it does look bad upon further viewings.
    Hey Ho, they'll kiss and make up come next season. After all, you can't hold grudges when playing for the same team. As in United.
  • The-Bodybuilder 5 Nov 2012 17:50:26 14,293 posts
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    It's easy to say not to boo your manager's decision.
    But supposing your team's manager was McLeish?

    It's pretty much your moral obligation to boo the f*cker out of town.
  • ecu 5 Nov 2012 17:53:32 77,034 posts
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    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    Dougs wrote:
    Looks worse every time I see it:

    http://bit.ly/TrWhUS
    Indeed it does look bad upon further viewings.
    Looks about the same every time I see it. Clear yellow card foul, which is what he got. Yup.
  • disusedgenius 5 Nov 2012 17:56:48 5,431 posts
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    Yeah, I can't say that it's THAT bad.
  • Dougs 5 Nov 2012 17:56:58 68,467 posts
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    Could easily have been a red. Shocking tackle, so late and no chance or intention of getting the ball.
  • The-Bodybuilder 5 Nov 2012 17:57:05 14,293 posts
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    ecureuil wrote:
    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    Dougs wrote:
    Looks worse every time I see it:

    http://bit.ly/TrWhUS
    Indeed it does look bad upon further viewings.
    Looks about the same every time I see it. Clear yellow card foul, which is what he got. Yup.
    Well you would say that though, wouldn't you?

    FYI, as Dougs can attest to, I was actually defending Van Persie's tackle in the arsenal group. So now, I don't have tainted eyes to the whole thing.

    Oh, and get this...We said the tackle looked WORSE every time we see it. No particular comment about it being worth more than yellow, so quit being so damn defensive.

    Edit: At least I was anyways.

    Edited by The-Bodybuilder at 17:57:38 05-11-2012
  • disusedgenius 5 Nov 2012 17:59:11 5,431 posts
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    Dougs wrote:
    Shocking tackle, so late and no chance or intention of getting the ball.
    Just looks a bit late and a bit wild to me. Typical forward blah blah.
  • kalel 5 Nov 2012 18:00:11 88,454 posts
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    Most of those managers have had reasonably success with shit teams and limited resources at quite a high level. That's why.
  • FWB 5 Nov 2012 18:01:13 44,848 posts
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    Because a large part of football is - like in many industries - about who you know and not what you know? Plus we probably don't have any decent managers. No other options.
  • disusedgenius 5 Nov 2012 18:02:21 5,431 posts
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    Who's Terry Butcher managing now anyway?
  • prawnking1980 5 Nov 2012 18:03:28 4,742 posts
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    Inverness I think. Doing quite well too
  • The-Bodybuilder 5 Nov 2012 18:21:04 14,293 posts
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    @EuroStalker There's a tight, small pool of an OBN (Old-Boys Network), whereby they just get jobs due to the connections. Most club chairmen are somehow connected to these OBNs and just pick from the pool.

    It's one of the biggest hindrances to preventing English coaches getting bigger jobs, more so than recruiting from outside of the country.
  • The-Bodybuilder 5 Nov 2012 18:23:11 14,293 posts
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    FWB wrote:
    Because a large part of football is - like in many industries - about who you know and not what you know? Plus we probably don't have any decent managers. No other options.
    What he said.
  • FWB 5 Nov 2012 18:29:28 44,848 posts
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    It's great to have all the talk about improving coaching, particularly at a grass-roots level, changing the focus of youngsters, but if the right coaches are not promoted and nurtured too, it'll mean very little.

    Looks who is in-charge of the U21s.
  • FWB 5 Nov 2012 18:39:07 44,848 posts
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    Those really passionate about it could go and get a training qualification, start with kids, work your way up, and win us the world cup, making sure you don't build a team full of cunts/Liverpool/Chelsea players.

    I'm going to look into doing the entry level certification next year. Got zero urge to make a career out of it, but I'd like to do some casual coaching. Could be fun until the dads start threatening you for not playing their little farts.

    Edited by FWB at 18:41:33 05-11-2012
  • The-Bodybuilder 5 Nov 2012 18:51:53 14,293 posts
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    FWB wrote:
    Looks who is in-charge of the U21s.
    Pretty much sums the whole debate up really.
  • FWB 5 Nov 2012 18:57:16 44,848 posts
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    I said many, not most. There are plenty of positions where you don't need to know anything to get ahead. Politics, for example. Management, in any field, is full of this kind of stuff. The difference with football is that the manager is in the media spotlight.

    That all said, regarding winning things... success is relative. I'd say Moyes is our best asset. He's achieved wonders given the cash he's had. Turned us from being constantly in the relegation fight to battling for a European spot almost every season. I take that over any FA/league cup trophy.

    Stability is also very, very important. It's taken time to get to where we are now, especially if you have (relatively) no funding.

    Edited by FWB at 19:03:23 05-11-2012
  • Syrette 5 Nov 2012 18:57:18 43,773 posts
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    Post deleted

  • The-Bodybuilder 5 Nov 2012 18:57:30 14,293 posts
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    FWB wrote:
    Those really passionate about it could go and get a training qualification, start with kids, work your way up, and win us the world cup, making sure you don't build a team full of cunts/Liverpool/Chelsea players.

    I'm going to look into doing the entry level certification next year. Got zero urge to make a career out of it, but I'd like to do some casual coaching. Could be fun until the dads start threatening you for not playing their little farts.
    The EPPP will help in that coaches can finally start getting paid a bit more (more paid full-time and part-time jobs at least), along with a structured coaching programme.

    But so long as those limited jobs keep geting passed around the OBNs, they'll never be progress.

    Maybe before putting in the Rooney rule, clubs should first be forced to at least interview young coaches, and maybe have some kind standardized tests.
  • kalel 5 Nov 2012 18:58:08 88,454 posts
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    EuroStalker wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    Most of those managers have had reasonably success with shit teams and limited resources at quite a high level. That's why.
    The stats say otherwise. Looking at wiki for each manager, you will find they average around 35% win across all their clubs which equates to around 39 points each season. You could just as easily pull any guy who knows a bit about football off the street, give them a bit of training and they would achieve the same win percentage.

    How many trophies have these guys won between them? You would think given the amount of time they've been in football, they would continue to learn and go on to bigger things. But no!

    Harry Redknapp sums it up for me. Decades in football and one FA Cup to show for it.
    Again, how many trophies do you expect them to win with teams like Birmingham and Blackburn? Keeping shit teams up with no resources is a significant achievement with the likes of City and Chelsea around. Bruce in particular had some landmarks at Birmingham such as finishing above Villa and top half finishes.

    Won't even dignify the comment about Harry.
  • TheSaint 5 Nov 2012 19:06:35 14,623 posts
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    In fairness Harry also won The Championship. Which was probably a bigger achievement than the FA cup.

    Edited by TheSaint at 19:10:36 05-11-2012
  • The-Bodybuilder 5 Nov 2012 19:06:47 14,293 posts
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    @EuroStalker Also doesn't help that football is notoriously anit-intellectual.

    Any sign of intelligence, and the current coaches will see you as a threat.
  • FWB 5 Nov 2012 19:10:50 44,848 posts
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    Got the impression that was part of the ill feel in certain areas for AVB. Young and qualified/trained, while the Chelsea lot are thick as pigshit and the owner doesn't know what to do but throw money around.

    Don't think the anti-intellectualism is universal in football though. Definitely in England though.

    Edited by FWB at 19:12:19 05-11-2012
  • The-Bodybuilder 5 Nov 2012 19:12:44 14,293 posts
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    Yeah, mentioning the Harry thing was a bit of a mistake (especially to kalel, lol).

    It's not just about winning the PL though, but in the lower leagues and also in the academy level. We've also seen young(ish) managers being given a chance and doing well (Lambert, Rodgers) with some other potential up and comers (Mackay, Powell).

    Also, there's the general English attitude of resisting leagues outside of England. A lot of decent managers could do well by proving themselves in other European leagues with decent competition.
  • FWB 5 Nov 2012 19:14:30 44,848 posts
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    If I were an up-and-coming manager I'd relish the chance to gain experience from other leagues, other styles. This attitude that "we know best" is arrogant and self-defeating.
  • Deleted user 5 November 2012 19:16:17
    I Remember when Sir Clive Woodward was employed by Southampton and was rumoured to be on the verge of applying science to the first team coaching.

    Every manager and "football person" was only too eager to shit on the idea.
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