Dougs wrote:Indeed it does look bad upon further viewings.
Looks worse every time I see it:
http://bit.ly/TrWhUS
Hey Ho, they'll kiss and make up come next season. After all, you can't hold grudges when playing for the same team. As in United.
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The-Bodybuilder 11,512 posts
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Hey Ho, they'll kiss and make up come next season. After all, you can't hold grudges when playing for the same team. As in United. -
The-Bodybuilder 11,512 posts
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Registered 9 years agoIt's easy to say not to boo your manager's decision.
But supposing your team's manager was McLeish?
It's pretty much your moral obligation to boo the f*cker out of town. -
ecureuil 74,152 posts
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Registered 8 years agoThe-Bodybuilder wrote:
Looks about the same every time I see it. Clear yellow card foul, which is what he got. Yup.Dougs wrote:
Indeed it does look bad upon further viewings.
Looks worse every time I see it:
http://bit.ly/TrWhUS -
disusedgenius 4,841 posts
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Registered 6 years agoYeah, I can't say that it's THAT bad. -
Dougs 59,113 posts
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Registered 10 years agoCould easily have been a red. Shocking tackle, so late and no chance or intention of getting the ball. -
The-Bodybuilder 11,512 posts
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Registered 9 years agoecureuil wrote:
Well you would say that though, wouldn't you?The-Bodybuilder wrote:
Looks about the same every time I see it. Clear yellow card foul, which is what he got. Yup.Dougs wrote:
Indeed it does look bad upon further viewings.
Looks worse every time I see it:
http://bit.ly/TrWhUS
FYI, as Dougs can attest to, I was actually defending Van Persie's tackle in the arsenal group. So now, I don't have tainted eyes to the whole thing.
Oh, and get this...We said the tackle looked WORSE every time we see it. No particular comment about it being worth more than yellow, so quit being so damn defensive.
Edit: At least I was anyways.
Edited by The-Bodybuilder at 17:57:38 05-11-2012 -
EuroStalker 258 posts
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Registered 4 years agoOne thing I don't understand is how rubbish managers like McLeish, Steve Bruce, Mark Huges, Iain Dowie, Mick MCCarthy and Terry 'I is bleeding' Butcher keep getting jobs in the game. How many times do these guys need to fail?!? You would think club owners would know a donkey when they see one.
I wonder how many of the above 'managers' would be given chance after chance if they were black?
Edited by EuroStalker at 17:59:23 05-11-2012 -
disusedgenius 4,841 posts
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Registered 6 years agoDougs wrote:
Just looks a bit late and a bit wild to me. Typical forward blah blah.
Shocking tackle, so late and no chance or intention of getting the ball. -
kalel 76,470 posts
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Registered 10 years agoMost of those managers have had reasonably success with shit teams and limited resources at quite a high level. That's why. -
FWB 39,099 posts
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Registered 11 years agoBecause a large part of football is - like in many industries - about who you know and not what you know? Plus we probably don't have any decent managers. No other options. -
disusedgenius 4,841 posts
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Registered 6 years agoWho's Terry Butcher managing now anyway? -
cheeky_prawnking 2,668 posts
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Registered 2 years agoInverness I think. Doing quite well too -
The-Bodybuilder 11,512 posts
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Registered 9 years ago@EuroStalker There's a tight, small pool of an OBN (Old-Boys Network), whereby they just get jobs due to the connections. Most club chairmen are somehow connected to these OBNs and just pick from the pool.
It's one of the biggest hindrances to preventing English coaches getting bigger jobs, more so than recruiting from outside of the country. -
EuroStalker 258 posts
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Registered 4 years agokalel wrote:
The stats say otherwise. Looking at wiki for each manager, you will find they average around 35% win across all their clubs which equates to around 39 points each season. You could just as easily pull any guy who knows a bit about football off the street, give them a bit of training and they would achieve the same win percentage.
Most of those managers have had reasonably success with shit teams and limited resources at quite a high level. That's why.
How many trophies have these guys won between them? You would think given the amount of time they've been in football, they would continue to learn and go on to bigger things. But no!
Harry Redknapp sums it up for me. Decades in football and one FA Cup to show for it. -
The-Bodybuilder 11,512 posts
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Registered 9 years agoFWB wrote:
What he said.
Because a large part of football is - like in many industries - about who you know and not what you know? Plus we probably don't have any decent managers. No other options. -
FWB 39,099 posts
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Registered 11 years agoIt's great to have all the talk about improving coaching, particularly at a grass-roots level, changing the focus of youngsters, but if the right coaches are not promoted and nurtured too, it'll mean very little.
Looks who is in-charge of the U21s. -
EuroStalker 258 posts
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Registered 4 years ago@The-Bodybuilder I agree. It's a clique of the worst kind which has resulted in the national game regressing. -
FWB 39,099 posts
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Registered 11 years agoThose really passionate about it could go and get a training qualification, start with kids, work your way up, and win us the world cup, making sure you don't build a team full of cunts/Liverpool/Chelsea players.
I'm going to look into doing the entry level certification next year. Got zero urge to make a career out of it, but I'd like to do some casual coaching. Could be fun until the dads start threatening you for not playing their little farts.
Edited by FWB at 18:41:33 05-11-2012 -
The-Bodybuilder 11,512 posts
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Registered 9 years agoFWB wrote:
Pretty much sums the whole debate up really.
Looks who is in-charge of the U21s. -
EuroStalker 258 posts
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Registered 4 years agoFWB wrote:
I disagree. In most industries/professions, if you have the qualifications and there are jobs, you will get a look in. I don't know any newly qualified barristers, accountants, GPs, nurses, architects out of work. I know a few young coaches with qualifications but little experience who have not even been given a look in. That's two young men who will now go work in other professions because their chosen profession is closed.
Because a large part of football is - like in many industries - about who you know and not what you know? ...
If experience is so important, how comes there are so many 'experienced' managers like the ones named above with such poor records. -
FWB 39,099 posts
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Registered 11 years agoI said many, not most. There are plenty of positions where you don't need to know anything to get ahead. Politics, for example. Management, in any field, is full of this kind of stuff. The difference with football is that the manager is in the media spotlight.
That all said, regarding winning things... success is relative. I'd say Moyes is our best asset. He's achieved wonders given the cash he's had. Turned us from being constantly in the relegation fight to battling for a European spot almost every season. I take that over any FA/league cup trophy.
Stability is also very, very important. It's taken time to get to where we are now, especially if you have (relatively) no funding.
Edited by FWB at 19:03:23 05-11-2012 -
Syrette 38,362 posts
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The-Bodybuilder 11,512 posts
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Registered 9 years agoFWB wrote:
The EPPP will help in that coaches can finally start getting paid a bit more (more paid full-time and part-time jobs at least), along with a structured coaching programme.
Those really passionate about it could go and get a training qualification, start with kids, work your way up, and win us the world cup, making sure you don't build a team full of cunts/Liverpool/Chelsea players.
I'm going to look into doing the entry level certification next year. Got zero urge to make a career out of it, but I'd like to do some casual coaching. Could be fun until the dads start threatening you for not playing their little farts.
But so long as those limited jobs keep geting passed around the OBNs, they'll never be progress.
Maybe before putting in the Rooney rule, clubs should first be forced to at least interview young coaches, and maybe have some kind standardized tests. -
kalel 76,470 posts
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Registered 10 years agoEuroStalker wrote:
Again, how many trophies do you expect them to win with teams like Birmingham and Blackburn? Keeping shit teams up with no resources is a significant achievement with the likes of City and Chelsea around. Bruce in particular had some landmarks at Birmingham such as finishing above Villa and top half finishes.kalel wrote:
The stats say otherwise. Looking at wiki for each manager, you will find they average around 35% win across all their clubs which equates to around 39 points each season. You could just as easily pull any guy who knows a bit about football off the street, give them a bit of training and they would achieve the same win percentage.
Most of those managers have had reasonably success with shit teams and limited resources at quite a high level. That's why.
How many trophies have these guys won between them? You would think given the amount of time they've been in football, they would continue to learn and go on to bigger things. But no!
Harry Redknapp sums it up for me. Decades in football and one FA Cup to show for it.
Won't even dignify the comment about Harry. -
TheSaint 11,616 posts
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Registered 7 years agoIn fairness Harry also won The Championship. Which was probably a bigger achievement than the FA cup.
Edited by TheSaint at 19:10:36 05-11-2012 -
The-Bodybuilder 11,512 posts
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Registered 9 years ago@EuroStalker Also doesn't help that football is notoriously anit-intellectual.
Any sign of intelligence, and the current coaches will see you as a threat. -
FWB 39,099 posts
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Registered 11 years agoGot the impression that was part of the ill feel in certain areas for AVB. Young and qualified/trained, while the Chelsea lot are thick as pigshit and the owner doesn't know what to do but throw money around.
Don't think the anti-intellectualism is universal in football though. Definitely in England though.
Edited by FWB at 19:12:19 05-11-2012 -
The-Bodybuilder 11,512 posts
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Registered 9 years agoYeah, mentioning the Harry thing was a bit of a mistake (especially to kalel, lol).
It's not just about winning the PL though, but in the lower leagues and also in the academy level. We've also seen young(ish) managers being given a chance and doing well (Lambert, Rodgers) with some other potential up and comers (Mackay, Powell).
Also, there's the general English attitude of resisting leagues outside of England. A lot of decent managers could do well by proving themselves in other European leagues with decent competition. -
FWB 39,099 posts
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Registered 11 years agoIf I were an up-and-coming manager I'd relish the chance to gain experience from other leagues, other styles. This attitude that "we know best" is arrogant and self-defeating. -
I Remember when Sir Clive Woodward was employed by Southampton and was rumoured to be on the verge of applying science to the first team coaching.
Every manager and "football person" was only too eager to shit on the idea. -
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