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  • Deleted user 4 October 2012 14:16:34
    reddevil93 wrote:
    You still think its not coincidence? That's funny. And you didn't imply it, you said it was disgraceful how Fergie can get away with such things.

    No I didn't! Again, you're seeing things that aren't there. Look at what I said:

    That right there is the power of Fergie, and why he has these moans. You can guarantee next time Foy referees a Man U game he'll be giving them the benefit of doubt on every single borderline decision (as will every other ref if they know what's good for them).

    It really isn't cool. Yes he could have given a couple of pens but it was no worse a referring than you see in every other game. The time thing was a non-issue.

    Genuinely a bit of a disgrace.
    Fergie doesn't directly influence anything. He doesn't say "I want this to happen" and therefore it happens. He does however put constant pressure on officials and the FA with his moaning and accusations, and as a result things he influences things in his favour.

    Fergie and every other manager is welcome to try and do this though. It's a disgrace that it works!

    Edited by kalel at 14:18:49 04-10-2012
  • King_Edward 4 Oct 2012 14:19:33 11,467 posts
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    It's a bit like Rafa's "facts", except that was incredibly blunt and stupid way of doing it. Same principle though. Putting a spotlight on the ref.
  • binky Moderator 4 Oct 2012 14:23:53 9,852 posts
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    I've got a lot of respect for Sir Fergie but man is he ever the most self unaware manager in the Prem.
  • reddevil93 4 Oct 2012 14:32:57 11,956 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    reddevil93 wrote:
    You still think its not coincidence? That's funny. And you didn't imply it, you said it was disgraceful how Fergie can get away with such things.

    No I didn't! Again, you're seeing things that aren't there. Look at what I said:

    That right there is the power of Fergie, and why he has these moans. You can guarantee next time Foy referees a Man U game he'll be giving them the benefit of doubt on every single borderline decision (as will every other ref if they know what's good for them).

    It really isn't cool. Yes he could have given a couple of pens but it was no worse a referring than you see in every other game. The time thing was a non-issue.

    Genuinely a bit of a disgrace.
    Fergie doesn't directly influence anything. He doesn't say "I want this to happen" and therefore it happens. He does however put constant pressure on officials and the FA with his moaning and accusations, and as a result things he influences things in his favour.

    Fergie and every other manager is welcome to try and do this though. It's a disgrace that it works!
    You said it was due to 'the power of Fergie' Foy got demote to league 2 for the weekend. And how much he influences refs is a bit of a disgrace. No?

  • Deleted user 4 October 2012 14:35:53
    Again, it's a disgrace that it works. My issue is with the powers that be, not Fergie. As I said earlier in the thread, of course he will do these things when it so obviously works.
  • nickthegun 4 Oct 2012 14:37:37 61,109 posts
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    It may not happen immediately, but it does happen.

    He got uriah rennie demoted.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • Deleted user 4 October 2012 14:38:30
    If it helps to hold up my hands and say that this case with Foy is now apparently totally unconnected to Fergie's comments or even the Man U game, then fine, let's do that.

    I still maintain (as does the article you linked) that Man U's influence over ref's and the FA's decisions is considerable.
  • LionheartDJH 4 Oct 2012 14:39:28 19,526 posts
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    binky wrote:
    I've got a lot of respect for Sir Fergie but man is he ever the most self unaware manager in the Prem.
    Or that's just what he wants everyone to think. Cos you know he is supreme master of the mind games and if he says something stupid there's always a deeper meaning behind it.

    She dives for cheese pasties

  • nickthegun 4 Oct 2012 14:40:23 61,109 posts
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    Hes totally aware. thats what, irritatingly, makes him the single most talented manager in football history.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • Deleted user 4 October 2012 14:42:00
    A bunch of people including Michael Chopra have been arrested for horse race fixing.
  • nickthegun 4 Oct 2012 14:54:09 61,109 posts
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    Hes going to get his fucking legs broken one day. Anyone who demands a club settle his gambling debts as a signing on fee has a serious, serious problem.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • reddevil93 4 Oct 2012 14:55:19 11,956 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    If it helps to hold up my hands and say that this case with Foy is now apparently totally unconnected to Fergie's comments or even the Man U game, then fine, let's do that.

    I still maintain (as does the article you linked) that Man U's influence over ref's and the FA's decisions is considerable.
    Well yeah, that was the only thing I disagreed with you on..

  • Deleted user 4 October 2012 14:58:05
    reddevil93 wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    If it helps to hold up my hands and say that this case with Foy is now apparently totally unconnected to Fergie's comments or even the Man U game, then fine, let's do that.

    I still maintain (as does the article you linked) that Man U's influence over ref's and the FA's decisions is considerable.
    Well yeah, that was the only thing I disagreed with you on..
    That and the suggestion (from others as well as you) that I think there is a conspiracy.

    I really really don't. That is irrational and absolutely clearly not the case.
  • oceanmotion 4 Oct 2012 15:02:38 16,092 posts
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    I think you give Fergie too much credit with this whole mind game thing. He does fuck all. Just because someone else snaps doesn't mean he had anything to do with it. He just talks like anyone else and handles pressure better than others. Nothing more than that. Why would anyone be swayed by Ferguson, it would be the total opposite, you would want to stick it to him.
  • mcmonkeyplc 4 Oct 2012 15:21:40 39,521 posts
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    He is the emperor of the greatest empire English football has ever seen!

    Of course he get's his way!

    /should probably lay off the Roman empire stories.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • morriss 4 Oct 2012 15:42:17 71,283 posts
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    Amazes me still how Fergie influences the game.
  • mcmonkeyplc 4 Oct 2012 15:44:53 39,521 posts
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    Amazing it?

    He'll retire or die soon so you don't have to be amazed for much longer.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Deleted user 4 October 2012 15:49:05
    We're sort of merging two things into one here, although they're two things that Fergie excels at both of.

    Mind games is when Fergie says things like "X should win the league this year" prompting X to nosedive down the table, or "such an such is good enough to manage a top side" prompting such and such to have a nervous breakdown and lose his job.

    The pressure on the officials thing is more about putting the spotlight (as King Ed eloquently put it above) on refs so that they are made to feel the pressure of big decisions, and are therefore more afraid to make them. Giving a bad decision against Sunderland is no big deal because at the end of the season nobody will point to it as the reason they didn't win the league. With Man U it is a big deal, because that's exactly what will happen. The same goes for the FA and the ref's association and such. Nobody wants to be responsible for Man U not winning the league.
  • mcmonkeyplc 4 Oct 2012 16:12:33 39,521 posts
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    Man Utd were responsible for not winning the league last season.

    Fergie himself has said that these things balance out over the entire season.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • mikew1985 4 Oct 2012 16:18:02 12,986 posts
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    Thats not really the point, and at the very least it is obvious the big teams (United included) get more decisions and the decisions that aren't given are scrutinised to the nth degree.
  • The-Bodybuilder 4 Oct 2012 19:21:31 14,397 posts
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    Fergie seems to have influence over here too.
    He's like Sauroun.

    Edited by The-Bodybuilder at 19:27:10 04-10-2012
  • TheMilkman 4 Oct 2012 22:35:55 221 posts
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    oceanmotion wrote:
    I think you give Fergie too much credit with this whole mind game thing. He does fuck all. Just because someone else snaps doesn't mean he had anything to do with it. He just talks like anyone else and handles pressure better than others. Nothing more than that. Why would anyone be swayed by Ferguson, it would be the total opposite, you would want to stick it to him.
    That's spot on is that. It's the most overplayed thing in football. The whole 'Keegan incident' was when Newcastle where already fucked and didn't really have a chance anyway.

    And no one mentions Mancinis 'mind games' when he kept going on about Utd being favourites going into the final games of the season last year. Why? Because it's bollocks. It's just talk, it makes no difference.

    Edited by TheMilkman at 22:36:53 04-10-2012
  • King_Edward 4 Oct 2012 22:48:43 11,467 posts
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    Everyone went on about Mancini's mind games at the end of last season, and it totally worked.
  • TheMilkman 4 Oct 2012 22:50:58 221 posts
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    People talked about it at the time, but as soon as the final ball was kicked it was over. People go on about the Fergie-Keegan thing like it was some kind of psychological masterstroke even today.

    And they won on goal difference in injury time of the last game of the season! As if it made any difference whatsoever.

    Edited by TheMilkman at 22:51:36 04-10-2012

    Edited by TheMilkman at 22:52:42 04-10-2012
  • Dougs 4 Oct 2012 23:07:05 69,123 posts
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    People talk about the Keegan thing not because of Fergie, but because we saw a manager visibly crumble under the pressure.
  • King_Edward 4 Oct 2012 23:10:06 11,467 posts
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    Surely the closeness of the finish makes it even more significant. If City hadn't picked up, and United hadn't dropped off exactly when they did, which just happened to be when Mancini started saying they couldn't win the league, then United would've won the league pretty comfortably.

    Obviously it can't turn Bolton into Champions League winners, or get Real Madrid relegated, but head games and pressure games clearly earn teams the odd point, which can make a massive difference.
  • mcmonkeyplc 4 Oct 2012 23:25:14 39,521 posts
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    I bet fergie has the penthouse suit in the shard.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • TheMilkman 4 Oct 2012 23:46:20 221 posts
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    If Utd had totally collapsed due to the pressure then fair enough, but they won their game and only lost the league after an injury time winner. Fair enough if you believe in it, but personally I think it's a load of bollocks and is just there to sell papers. It's like star signs. It would've happened anyway.

    @Dougs - That isn't true though is it? People talk about Fergies 'mind games' contributing to Keegan having a breakdown. The fact is that his team had knackered it up on their own and he lost it.
  • King_Edward 4 Oct 2012 23:55:41 11,467 posts
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    So you're saying Fergie doesn't play head games, he's just a dick?
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