The all-new Premier League thread Page 4177

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  • Dougs 9 Oct 2013 12:56:57 69,516 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    How are people feeling about Welshit's (Jack) England is for English people comments?

    Hard not to simply read that he's threatened. Wonder how he feels about his mate Ozil playing for Germany.
    I don't know Ozil's circumstances, but I doubt he meant players that moved here as kids and took British nationality.
  • King_Edward 9 Oct 2013 13:03:31 11,471 posts
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    It is a little silly that you can claim a player after just 5 years. Tevez was here that long and couldn't even speak English. That said, if I player says he "loves" a country enough to represent them over their homeland I don't really have an argument against why they should.
  • HarryPalmer 9 Oct 2013 13:04:22 3,585 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    How are people feeling about Welshit's (Jack) England is for English people comments?

    Hard not to simply read that he's threatened. Wonder how he feels about his mate Ozil playing for Germany.
    Not exactly a smart thing to say, but y'know, it's true, just because you've lived here for 5 years, doesn't make you English. I don't see why he's wading in with his opinion though.

    That said, I couldn't care less who plays for England.
  • Tom_Servo 9 Oct 2013 13:06:19 18,082 posts
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    Scotland do it quite a bit (Scottish grannies and all that). I don't really mind Scotland doing it since we really need all the help we can get, but you'd think England wouldn't have to resort to that.

    Anyway, this is just the same debate as when people were talking about Almunia becoming England's goalie (God, that feels made up when you think about it now).
  • Deleted user 9 October 2013 13:06:39
    "Just to clarify a few things....again! Seems to be a trend in this country, poor journalism in my eyes! I wasn't referring to Januzaj...
    "The question was should foreign players be allowed to play for England, and in my opinion I don't think they should! He is a great player...
    "I wish he was English! I'm sure most of you agree with me even if some journalist are trying to make me look bad....again!"
    Doesn't really clarify much, other than that he isn't the brightest...

    It's the same issue as all people that try to define what being English is. You can't.

    If someone lives here for five years and decides they like it enough for them to claim it as their home, and represent them at sport, then cool afaic.
  • TheSaint 9 Oct 2013 13:07:09 14,829 posts
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    He'll have probably gone to Barca or Juve before he qualifies anyway.

    I bet the FA press team weren't too impressed with how he worded his answer. Sounds a bit EDL.
  • HarryPalmer 9 Oct 2013 13:07:20 3,585 posts
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    Also, threatened by who exactly?
  • Tom_Servo 9 Oct 2013 13:09:30 18,082 posts
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    Of course it's all a bit of a moot point since Januzaj wants to play for Albania (I think). He's already turned down Belgium, so I can't see him saying yes to England to be brutally honest.
  • Deleted user 9 October 2013 13:09:37
    HarryPalmer wrote:
    Also, threatened by who exactly?
    Januzaj (despite him claiming his comments have nothing to do with him, they obviously do).
  • faux-C 9 Oct 2013 13:11:27 9,640 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    "Just to clarify a few things....again! Seems to be a trend in this country, poor journalism in my eyes! I wasn't referring to Januzaj...
    "The question was should foreign players be allowed to play for England, and in my opinion I don't think they should! He is a great player...
    "I wish he was English! I'm sure most of you agree with me even if some journalist are trying to make me look bad....again!"
    Doesn't really clarify much, other than that he isn't the brightest...

    It's the same issue as all people that try to define what being English is. You can't.

    If someone lives here for five years and decides they like it enough for them to claim it as their home, and represent them at sport, then cool afaic.
    Sounds fine in an abstract way, but then you think that Januzaj literally only lives in England because Utd paid him to move over here. Then you get issues like when Qatar were issuing passports to Brazilians just so they could play for the Qatar national team. It's potentially incredibly dodgy.

    Obviously it's different with people who migrate for non-footballing reasons.
  • senso-ji 9 Oct 2013 13:12:27 6,042 posts
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    Ozil doesn't count anyway, as he was born in Germany to German born parents of Turkish origin.
  • Deleted user 9 October 2013 13:14:19
    Not the best example, admittedly, but it's somewhere on the same scale.
  • Dougs 9 Oct 2013 13:20:00 69,516 posts
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    Football, for th most part, traditionally has stayed away from such things, at least not to the same extent as rugby and cricket. It was bound to happen at some point though.

    You hit the nail on the head though. He's just a bit thick.
  • nickthegun 9 Oct 2013 13:23:13 61,318 posts
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    Its a strange one as english football seem to be the only ones who give a shit. Most other national teams will take anyone with the most tenuous connections and our national cricket and rugby teams would be shite without 'foreigners'.

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  • thedaveeyres 9 Oct 2013 13:28:09 11,595 posts
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    For me, there's an obvious and profound difference between...

    this

    Shaheen moved from Kenya to Qatar in 2003. Changing his name from Stephen Cherono to Saif Saaeed Shaheen, he was reported to have received up to US$1 million to become a Qatari citizen[citation needed], although he denied this. After about 40 athletes had left the country, President Mwai Kibaki made a speech before the 2005 World Championships in which he said "Let us resist the temptation to change our citizenship for financial gains."

    Shaheen began his international career for Qatar by winning two medals at the 2003 Asian Athletics Championships, taking silvers over 1500 m and 5000 m. When he won the steeplechase at the 2003 World Championships in Athletics in Paris, his brother, who was also in the race, walked off the track and did not congratulate him due to his defection to Qatar.
    Shaheen was barred from competing in the 2004 Olympic Games due to an International Olympic Committee (IOC) rule that athletes may not compete in international events for three years after competing in an international event for a different country. This rule may be waived if the athlete and the governing athletics bodies from the two countries involved agree that it should be; the Kenyan Athletics Federation did not agree. Kenyan runner Ezekiel Kemboi won the Olympic steeplechase race that year.

    Shaheen's move is a prominent example of increasing globalization in athletics, as countries such as Qatar and Bahrain, also a Gulf State, have persuaded high-profile African athletes to change nationalities. This marked a change of motivation in athlete transfers, in contrast, for example, to the politically motivated change of Zola Budd, or the marriage and emigration issues that led Wilson Kipketer to compete for Denmark. IOC President Jacques Rogge has also raised concerns about athletes moving between countries, stating that, "What is bad is countries or organizations wanting to buy athletes just for the money."
    and this

    Born in Somalia, on 23 March 1983, Farah spent the early years of his childhood in Djibouti with his twin brother. He later moved to Britain at the age of 8 years old to join his father, speaking barely a word of English. He has a British father, Mukhtar Farah, who was born in England and grew up in Hounslow, London. Farah's parents met during a holiday.

    Farah attended Feltham Community College in London. His athletic talent was first identified by physical education teacher Alan Watkinson, who later said of Farah: "When I first met him, he was struggling academically and suffering from the language barrier. He needed focus and I sort of took him under my wing. His passion was football but it was his turn of speed on the pitch that showed his real talent." His ambition was to play as a right winger for Arsenal football club.

    Farah represented Hounslow at cross-country in the London Youth Games. In 1996, at the age of 13, Farah entered the English schools cross-country and finished ninth. The following year he won the first of five English school titles.

    Farah's first major title was at 5000 metres at the European Athletics Junior Championship in 2001, the same year that he began training at St Mary's University College, Twickenham. That year Farah became one of the first two athletes in the newly formed Endurance Performance Centre at St Mary’s. He lived and trained at the College, and took some modules in an access course before becoming a full-time athlete as his career progressed.
    Apologies for the wall of text.

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  • Deleted user 9 October 2013 13:29:55
    With the five year rule, is it literally five years pass and they can play, or is it just the usual five years to gain citizenship?

    If it's the latter, I genuinely can not see any argument against it that isn't racist. They've chosen to live and pay tax and vote in this country. They've made it theirs. Why shouldn't they represent us at sporting level?
  • thedaveeyres 9 Oct 2013 13:33:34 11,595 posts
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    The Belgians are a race now? Crikey.

    Adnan, the boy who broke football

    Edited by thedaveeyres at 13:35:02 09-10-2013

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  • Deleted user 9 October 2013 13:34:47
    Eh?
  • thedaveeyres 9 Oct 2013 13:35:52 11,595 posts
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    He's not a racist, he's a xenophobe, surely.

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  • Deleted user 9 October 2013 13:38:36
    I think we're generally at the point now where any kind of xenophobic, ethnic or cultural discrimination comes under the banner of racism. It's all the same thing effectively.
  • thedaveeyres 9 Oct 2013 13:39:59 11,595 posts
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    Somewhere on the same scale then. Gotcha.

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  • Deleted user 9 October 2013 14:05:26
    arials101 wrote:
    Xenophobia and racism really can't be considered the same thing either, that's a big oversimplification.
    How so?
  • Deleted user 9 October 2013 14:07:01
    Also according to Wilshere is wasn't talking about Januzaj. He was making a broader point, so the Ozil point is a fair one to make.

    Who knows what he considers "English" to be.
  • LeoliansBro 9 Oct 2013 14:09:29 44,956 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    arials101 wrote:
    Xenophobia and racism really can't be considered the same thing either, that's a big oversimplification.
    How so?
    Gotta agree with this arials chap kal - there is some overlap but it is entirely possible to be xenophobic without being racist (like to the Scots) or racist without being xenophobic (like to Black english people).

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Deleted user 9 October 2013 14:13:50
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    arials101 wrote:
    Xenophobia and racism really can't be considered the same thing either, that's a big oversimplification.
    How so?
    Gotta agree with this arials chap kal - there is some overlap but it is entirely possible to be xenophobic without being racist (like to the Scots) or racist without being xenophobic (like to Black english people).
    What I'm saying is that the word "racist" is generally used as a broader team this days. The meaning of the word has shifted to be less specific.

    I understand the difference between a race and an nationality.
  • HarryPalmer 9 Oct 2013 14:35:34 3,585 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    HarryPalmer wrote:
    Also, threatened by who exactly?
    Januzaj (despite him claiming his comments have nothing to do with him, they obviously do).
    Oh right. Don't really see why he would be threatened by him. He plays in the same team as Ozil and Cazorla and does alright.
  • Deleted user 9 October 2013 14:37:32
    HarryPalmer wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    HarryPalmer wrote:
    Also, threatened by who exactly?
    Januzaj (despite him claiming his comments have nothing to do with him, they obviously do).
    Oh right. Don't really see why he would be threatened by him. He plays in the same team as Ozil and Cazorla and does alright.
    I got the sense he wasn't doing so great these days as it goes.
  • nickthegun 9 Oct 2013 14:38:29 61,318 posts
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    The basic problem is this: Jack Wilshire is a thick bastard

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  • HarryPalmer 9 Oct 2013 14:40:42 3,585 posts
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    Not sure where you got that from - aside from the nonsense about smoking, but he's been great. E.g. when he had to go off in the Spurs game and we lost the plot momentarily. He is massive for Arsenal.

    EDIT: At Kalel.

    Edited by HarryPalmer at 14:41:43 09-10-2013
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