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  • Shikasama 28 Aug 2013 08:38:40 6,603 posts
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    ElNino9 wrote:
    And my flat mate, an Everton season ticket holder, claims he's far more effective used in an advanced role like he has been and is pretty average when used as in a central 2/3. With the wealth of options we have up top, I don't see us playing him further forward like Everton.
    Your flatmate is wrong, season ticket or no. He doesn't even want to play further forward, he seriously dislikes it.
  • kalel 28 Aug 2013 08:50:30 86,288 posts
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    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    What about Holtby, Dembele and Sig?
    Holtby and Sigs are both number 10s, whereas I think what we really need is more of a deeper lying link-up player. A "regista" as opposed to a "trequartista" to be wanky about it :)

    But to be frank a better number 10 would also do the trick, which I guess was the idea behind Willian. Holtby is actually pretty raw and I think we need to be patient with him. And Sigs shows flashes of being a good VdV replacement but also isn't quite there yet.

    As for Dembele, he's just something else entirely. He's brilliant on the ball and great at driving play forwards and drifting past players, but he doesn't really have the kind of brain that can see a defence splitting pass.
  • robc84 28 Aug 2013 08:57:21 5,274 posts
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    From what I have seen of Holtby, he does seem to have it in him to be the creative player we need. As you say, he just needs a bit of time to settle, maybe a run of games to get his confidence up.

    I was a big VdV fan, but wasn't he more of a goal scorer than a creator though?

    While I think it would be great to have a mata type player, I'm not sure it's essential. We look dangerous down the wings and paulinho seems great at bombing into the box Lampard style.

    I think we'll be ok. Team just needs a little time to gel.
  • kalel 28 Aug 2013 09:05:52 86,288 posts
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    VdV was a classic number 10 for us (although a bit slow and sluggish). The role is part second striker, part playmaker. That was very much him.

    And I really think it's a problem we can't ignore. Yes we look good but you can't get by on simply being industrious and energetic. You need some spark. Soldado basically did nothing apart from score two pens in our first two fixtures, and it's because nobody has the ability to play that killer final ball. In games where we actually need to score goals, this is going to be an issue.

    Edited by kalel at 09:07:08 28-08-2013
  • THFourteen 28 Aug 2013 09:07:57 32,856 posts
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    Just realised, by Sunday Ramsey will be the best Welsh player in the league.
  • kalel 28 Aug 2013 09:11:46 86,288 posts
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    I'd rather have Danny Gabbidon.
  • Frogofdoom 28 Aug 2013 09:12:13 868 posts
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    Is Giggs retiring?
  • robc84 28 Aug 2013 09:14:36 5,274 posts
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    Thing about Soldado is though, he doesn't do much but score goals. I read articles and analysis before he signed, saying that he is a penalty box player, rarely involved in build up etc. Just has great movement in the box and great finisher. Not that it's a problem, its just what we need. Provided he gets the service though.

    I'm not saying we should ignore the issue, but I'd just like to think that perhaps with all the players we have, one of them (Holtby most likely) will step up to the plate.

    I only saw the highlights of the Swans game, but didn't we have loads of shots, and their keeper made a few blinding saves. Paulinho could have scored 3.

    If a couple of those had gone in and we'd won 3-0, would we still be complaining about a lack of creativity?
  • THFourteen 28 Aug 2013 09:15:44 32,856 posts
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    Frogofdoom wrote:
    Is Giggs retiring?
    Arse.

    Second best welsh player hten
  • LeD 28 Aug 2013 09:16:12 6,209 posts
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    I can't believe you Spuds are complaining now! o_O

    You almost have an entire new team!
  • kalel 28 Aug 2013 09:18:50 86,288 posts
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    I'm not complaining. Just commenting.

    If we haven't signed a more creative player when the window shuts I'll be complaining.
  • robc84 28 Aug 2013 09:19:21 5,274 posts
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    THFourteen wrote:
    Frogofdoom wrote:
    Is Giggs retiring?
    Arse.

    Second best welsh player hten
    Remember Bale probably won't be sold until deadline day....
  • LeD 28 Aug 2013 09:21:03 6,209 posts
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    Arsenal now 2/1 to sign Mata, SSN says. That is ridiculous, even if The Special One didn't hate our guts, there'd still be the small matter of his wages.
  • Fab4 28 Aug 2013 09:22:39 5,975 posts
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    I hate myself for getting sucked into transfer season madness but can we please let the Mata to Arsenal one be true. He's one of the few Chelsea players I like. Although he's not exactly what we need.
  • robc84 28 Aug 2013 09:23:41 5,274 posts
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    Fab4 wrote:
    I hate myself for getting sucked into transfer season madness but can we please let the Mata to Arsenal one be true. He's one of the few Chelsea players I like. Although he's not exactly what we need.
    If you get Mata, can we have Cazorla?
  • Fab4 28 Aug 2013 09:24:33 5,975 posts
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    @robc84 Jog on :p
  • roz123 28 Aug 2013 09:26:54 7,112 posts
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    LeD wrote:
    Arsenal now 2/1 to sign Mata, SSN says. That is ridiculous, even if The Special One didn't hate our guts, there'd still be the small matter of his wages.
    You can get 4/1 on him leaving Chelsea this summer for any club. I was looking to see if anyone is putting bets on that he stays at Chelsea, best I could find was 1/7
  • LeD 28 Aug 2013 09:27:39 6,209 posts
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    Aptly put in The Guardian's Rumour Mill:

    Arsène Wenger continues to fixate on his perfectly serviceable midfield to the detriment of the bits of his team which actually do need emergency attention.

    Seriously. Get A.N. Otherstriker and some defensive cover man!
  • THFourteen 28 Aug 2013 09:28:26 32,856 posts
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    Are people forgetting that Mata blew us off two years ago? He can do one IMO fucking twat
  • LeD 28 Aug 2013 09:29:16 6,209 posts
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    roz123 wrote:
    LeD wrote:
    Arsenal now 2/1 to sign Mata, SSN says. That is ridiculous, even if The Special One didn't hate our guts, there'd still be the small matter of his wages.
    You can get 4/1 on him leaving Chelsea this summer for any club. I was looking to see if anyone is putting bets on that he stays at Chelsea, best I could find was 1/7
    I really can't fathom how any club would want rid of him. It's not like he's agitating for a move or past it, is he? He's a seriously good player.
  • mikeck 28 Aug 2013 09:32:36 1,902 posts
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    robc84 wrote:
    Thing about Soldado is though, he doesn't do much but score goals. I read articles and analysis before he signed, saying that he is a penalty box player, rarely involved in build up etc. Just has great movement in the box and great finisher. Not that it's a problem, its just what we need. Provided he gets the service though.
    Soldado is a striker very much in the mould of Van Nistelrooy, and Spurs haven't had that type of player for a long, long time. Be good to have a pure finisher for once, and let our wealth of attacking midfielders play provider to him.
  • LeD 28 Aug 2013 09:33:44 6,209 posts
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    Apparently di Maria is bound to the Graveyard of the Footballing Greats, as reports indicate Galatasaray has had a bid accepted by RM.
  • The-Bodybuilder 28 Aug 2013 09:39:44 14,054 posts
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    @kalel So Dembele is basically am injury-free Diaby then.
    With your current options, does he make your starting 11 against Paulinho, Capoue and Sandro?
  • kalel 28 Aug 2013 09:40:30 86,288 posts
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    robc84 wrote:
    Thing about Soldado is though, he doesn't do much but score goals. I read articles and analysis before he signed, saying that he is a penalty box player, rarely involved in build up etc. Just has great movement in the box and great finisher. Not that it's a problem, its just what we need. Provided he gets the service though.
    Yeah, this is exactly what I'm saying! :) The problem is he isn't getting the service.


    I'm not saying we should ignore the issue, but I'd just like to think that perhaps with all the players we have, one of them (Holtby most likely) will step up to the plate.

    I only saw the highlights of the Swans game, but didn't we have loads of shots, and their keeper made a few blinding saves. Paulinho could have scored 3.

    If a couple of those had gone in and we'd won 3-0, would we still be complaining about a lack of creativity?
    Most of our shots were fairly desperate and a lot were from outside the area. Looked like we had a shoot on sight policy, which is again I'm sure a way of combatting the obvious issue we have with creating proper goalscoring chances. Frankly yes, I would still be complaining if a couple had happened to deflect in or whatever.

    We're doing brilliantly well and the team is looking ace. This isn't a major moan. However, having literally no proper creative players is going to be a big issue as the season goes on. The fact that we've only scored penalties against reasonably average (one quite poor) teams does say a lot. We can't keep that up, and it's a problem we really do have to address. When Michael Dawson is your best passer, you're not in a good place.
  • roz123 28 Aug 2013 09:41:12 7,112 posts
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    LeD wrote:
    roz123 wrote:
    LeD wrote:
    Arsenal now 2/1 to sign Mata, SSN says. That is ridiculous, even if The Special One didn't hate our guts, there'd still be the small matter of his wages.
    You can get 4/1 on him leaving Chelsea this summer for any club. I was looking to see if anyone is putting bets on that he stays at Chelsea, best I could find was 1/7
    I really can't fathom how any club would want rid of him. It's not like he's agitating for a move or past it, is he? He's a seriously good player.
    Its a bollocks story that started before Mourinho even started working at Chelsea and because Mata has been injured and hasn't been playing its kept going on and on. I read this week he has been linked to Utd, Arsenal, Tottenham, Real Madrid, Athletico Madrid and fucking Liverpool. I should really stop looking at the Daily Mails website :lol:
    Mata started against Villa, I was at the game and he did not look fit at all, Mourinho has said about 12 times he is not going anywhere, Mata has said he is not going anywhere and he is injured but yet not one of these articles acknowledge any of that, which is annoying.
  • robc84 28 Aug 2013 09:43:58 5,274 posts
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    If we are going to play a 'No.10' then the DM slots will be two from the 4 (Paulihno, Capoue, Dembele, Sandro). Really don't know who I'd chose. Depends on the opposition I suppose.

    Unless our No 10 will fill one of the wide forward spaces then you can have 3 from the 4.

    Edit: @ The-Bodybuilder

    Edited by robc84 at 09:45:11 28-08-2013
  • kalel 28 Aug 2013 09:45:42 86,288 posts
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    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    @kalel So Dembele is basically am injury-free Diaby then.
    With your current options, does he make your starting 11 against Paulinho, Capoue and Sandro?
    With our current options absolutely he does. One of those other three sits out, and we play two DMs with Dembele in front. The debate starts if we sign a new number 10, or an ACM.

    But you pick the 11 for the game you're playing. Dembele will be a key player for us I'm sure. It's the three others you mention who will generally find themselves rotating over two spots imo.
  • The-Bodybuilder 28 Aug 2013 09:49:06 14,054 posts
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    THFourteen wrote:
    Are people forgetting that Mata blew us off two years ago? He can do one IMO fucking twat
    Come on THF, the whole super-negative profile must be taking its toll now, requiring super amount of effort.

    And Mata didn't blow us off, we dicked him about and Chelsea came in for a better offer. Honestly, its like you want us to be shit, to not get players like Mata and only get cheap shits like Gervinho.

    I don't see the point in us getting Mata seeing as he's basically Cazorla. But Chelsea and Mourinho does have previous in selling us good players that he doesn't rate (that very good midget DM).

    But a defensive DM, CB and Striker is still our main areas of need. don't know why Wenger is infatuated with adding more small technically creative midfielders (Kebab and Mata).
  • robc84 28 Aug 2013 09:49:40 5,274 posts
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    @kalel I hear what you are saying, but we have a lot of new players and I hope once they have all settled in we may find our creative touch. I'm not saying it isn't missing at the moment, just that I am hoping we have the players at the club who can provide it.

    Failing that, are there actually any creative players about that we would realistically have a chance of signing?
  • The-Bodybuilder 28 Aug 2013 09:50:48 14,054 posts
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    LeD wrote:
    Apparently di Maria is bound to the Graveyard of the Footballing Greats, as reports indicate Galatasaray has had a bid accepted by RM.
    There's something wrong when a player like him would pick Galatasary over us.
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