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  • robc84 19 Aug 2013 15:56:59 5,329 posts
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    vijay_UK wrote:
    robc84 wrote:
    80m is a crazy figure for any player really. But bear in mind this is the double player of the year last year, still only 23 (I think) so in theory has his best years ahead of him. He has a long term contract at his current club, who do not need to sell.

    Sorry, but if you want him, your gonna have to pay the big bucks.
    He might be the double player of the year last year, but Ronaldo's 80m transfer fee got Real 201 goals in 200 apps.

    Not saying Bale will have to do that (!), but there or thereabouts will be needed to be regarded as a good signing. I'm looking at this from Real's angle.
    The Ronaldo deal was a fair few years ago now. Plus this is Real we are talking about. Normal transfer rules / sense just go out the window.

    Plus, Real are the ones that want him, and know the figure they will have to pay to get him. If they are not interested they should just move on to other targets.
  • Orange 19 Aug 2013 16:17:44 4,669 posts
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    Ronaldo is widely accepted as a bargain, not just for his football but even more so for the merchandising. It's also the main reason why he's been moaning the last couple of years, as Real had him on a contract where he only gets 50% of the image rights, which has turned out to be worth far more than his salary.

    Bale may not be worth close to 80 million even when you take potential merchandising into account, however the real reason he's worth that much is Barca signing Neymar. Real have to make a massive signing to compete with that, and Bale is the only young player with a comparable profile.
  • THFourteen 19 Aug 2013 16:29:22 32,872 posts
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    Could sell a lot of pet monkeys if Bale signs.
  • The-Bodybuilder 19 Aug 2013 16:32:16 14,074 posts
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    Orange wrote:
    Ronaldo is widely accepted as a bargain, not just for his football but even more so for the merchandising. It's also the main reason why he's been moaning the last couple of years, as Real had him on a contract where he only gets 50% of the image rights, which has turned out to be worth far more than his salary.

    Bale may not be worth close to 80 million even when you take potential merchandising into account, however the real reason he's worth that much is Barca signing Neymar. Real have to make a massive signing to compete with that, and Bale is the only young player with a comparable profile.
    There's always Aaron Lennon
  • nickthegun 19 Aug 2013 16:33:02 58,851 posts
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    Heh (from my facebook):

    'I went to the the Arsenal game on saturday and bought a hotdog and a pint. I have now spent more than Arsene Wenger at the emirates this summer'

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    He totally called it

  • FutileResistor 19 Aug 2013 16:37:45 1,221 posts
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    @kalel

    I never argued current value has anything to do with past value but if a player has subsequently improved you would expect to get more for him. The fact that others have used the same argument for Fellani proves this point.

    I already conceded the point that we are not rivals and I said as much without prompting in the original discussion. This does not change the fact that our goal is to get into the top four so the situation is directly comparable. It would be just as mad for us to sell Suarez to Arsenal, given our goal, as it would be for you to sell Bale to Arsenal given your goal. This is one of the main reasons why I consider the initial 30m bid to be a joke bid. As I said, with Suarez we have a slim chance of getting top four, without him we have no chance. With him at Arsenal we have less than no chance.

    I said, leaving aside the traditional rivalry, because I knew that would be your argument and you are just using it to avoid the question.

    You can't just ignore the reasons why I consider the Arsenal bid to be a joke and then answer a different question.

    So is your answer a 40m for Bale from Arsenal, a direct rival for a CL place, would be a joke bid, but a bid from Manchester Utd wouldn't be.

    Edited by FutileResistor at 16:45:14 19-08-2013
  • FutileResistor 19 Aug 2013 16:39:19 1,221 posts
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    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    Ronaldo and Messi are the 2 best players in the planet and possibly the best ever.
    Bale for that much gives the impression he's in that bracket.

    He's phenomenal, but he's not in the planet. IMO, Van Persie is still better than him, and he's not in that realm of super top players.

    But whatevs.
    Nobody else is remotely in that bracket. Once Bale has scored a goal a game for 3 seasons running we can put him in that bracket.

    Edited by FutileResistor at 16:42:42 19-08-2013
  • nickthegun 19 Aug 2013 16:46:45 58,851 posts
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    If bale was playing for real it would be a fair bet that he wouldnt score far off that ratio.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    He totally called it

  • Futaba 19 Aug 2013 16:51:44 3,462 posts
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    FutileResistor wrote:
    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    Ronaldo and Messi are the 2 best players in the planet and possibly the best ever.
    Bale for that much gives the impression he's in that bracket.

    He's phenomenal, but he's not in the planet. IMO, Van Persie is still better than him, and he's not in that realm of super top players.

    But whatevs.
    Nobody else is remotely in that bracket. Once Bale has scored a goal a game for 3 seasons running we can put him in that bracket.
    That's what he meant, the price tag of 80m+ for Bale being mooted implies he is that good, but he's not. Not yet, at least.

    Edited by Futaba at 16:52:26 19-08-2013

    As far back as I can remember I always wanted to be a ninja.

  • roz123 19 Aug 2013 16:52:37 7,112 posts
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    If like some people used to say, Messi needs to show his quality at a world cup to prove he is one of the best then Bale is fucked.
  • robc84 19 Aug 2013 16:56:30 5,329 posts
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    The price tags are not a comparison of quality. I don't think anyone is trying to say Bale is as good as Ronaldo, certainly not yet anyway.

    But outside of those two players, he is certainly one of the best around. As I said before, he has a long contract and his best years are ahead of him. Plus this is Real. So no point trying to make sense of it. As someone posted above, Real need a marquee signing to compete with Barca's Neymar signing. If they have to pay 80m to get him, I'm sure they will.
  • The-Bodybuilder 19 Aug 2013 17:04:58 14,074 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    If bale was playing for real it would be a fair bet that he wouldnt score far off that ratio.
    Fair point, but also consider Ronaldo was hitting 30 goals and then more than 40 goals before he left, carrying with him relatively the same ratio of conversion with hi.

    If Bale was producing that last season, then I could say there's a good chance of him going to Real and doing that.
  • The-Bodybuilder 19 Aug 2013 17:05:57 14,074 posts
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    Futaba wrote:
    FutileResistor wrote:
    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    Ronaldo and Messi are the 2 best players in the planet and possibly the best ever.
    Bale for that much gives the impression he's in that bracket.

    He's phenomenal, but he's not in the planet. IMO, Van Persie is still better than him, and he's not in that realm of super top players.

    But whatevs.
    Nobody else is remotely in that bracket. Once Bale has scored a goal a game for 3 seasons running we can put him in that bracket.
    That's what he meant, the price tag of 80m+ for Bale being mooted implies he is that good, but he's not. Not yet, at least.
    Wasn't sure if I hadn't explained myself properly there when I read his response. heh. :p
  • kalel 19 Aug 2013 17:26:32 86,409 posts
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    FutileResistor wrote:
    @kalel

    I never argued current value has anything to do with past value but if a player has subsequently improved you would expect to get more for him. The fact that others have used the same argument for Fellani proves this point.

    I already conceded the point that we are not rivals and I said as much without prompting in the original discussion. This does not change the fact that our goal is to get into the top four so the situation is directly comparable. It would be just as mad for us to sell Suarez to Arsenal, given our goal, as it would be for you to sell Bale to Arsenal given your goal. This is one of the main reasons why I consider the initial 30m bid to be a joke bid. As I said, with Suarez we have a slim chance of getting top four, without him we have no chance. With him at Arsenal we have less than no chance.

    I said, leaving aside the traditional rivalry, because I knew that would be your argument and you are just using it to avoid the question.

    You can't just ignore the reasons why I consider the Arsenal bid to be a joke and then answer a different question.

    So is your answer a 40m for Bale from Arsenal, a direct rival for a CL place, would be a joke bid, but a bid from Manchester Utd wouldn't be.
    Look, let's see if we can simply this by removing some of the odd hypotheticals and comparisons of this discussion.

    I'm assuming you think Suarez is worth around 50m yes? So the question is, would I consider an opening bid of 30m for a player worth 50m to be a joke? The answer is no, especially as I think 50m is on the high side considering his issues, the fact that he publicly wants out, and that 50m gets you players like Cavani and Falcao, who score more and aren't racist/bitey.

    Would I consider a 25m bid for two players who are individually worth 20m-30m each to be a joke? The answer is yes.

    Edited by kalel at 17:33:17 19-08-2013
  • kalel 19 Aug 2013 17:28:57 86,409 posts
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    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    nickthegun wrote:
    If bale was playing for real it would be a fair bet that he wouldnt score far off that ratio.
    Fair point, but also consider Ronaldo was hitting 30 goals and then more than 40 goals before he left, carrying with him relatively the same ratio of conversion with hi.

    If Bale was producing that last season, then I could say there's a good chance of him going to Real and doing that.
    If Bale can take his form from the second half of the season on, then there's no reason why he couldn't score that many in total next season.

    It's interesting you compare him with RvP. They're similar in that we never really see what they can do due to injury. RvP has only just established himself as a 30 goal as season striker as he's only just managed to stay fit. Bale is kind of the same (but a lot younger, hence why he's potentially worth so much).
  • The-Bodybuilder 19 Aug 2013 17:34:24 14,074 posts
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    Indeed, however I remember even in here the idea of RvP being a world class player capable of 30 goals seemed crazy to some, largely because of his injury record.

    Though Bale isn't anywhere near as bad, just as with RvP in his younger years, he simply couldn't be sold for crazy amount until he had consistently shown his potential for at least 1 season.

    Bale has had 2 great seasons, but only really the second half of both.

    But I have to be honest here, I think people (me included) suffer from the idea of Bale being a bonafide one of the best in the world due to because he's....well, Welsh. Just seems a tad too local, and what are the odds of Wales producing possibly the 3rd best player in the world?

    Now if he was Spanish on the other hand...
  • kalel 19 Aug 2013 17:41:39 86,409 posts
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    I'd personally say Bale has been established as top class for three seasons now. Ever since that San Siro hat-trick (which was 2010) if he's been fit, he's been awesome.
  • Sid-Nice 19 Aug 2013 18:08:48 15,852 posts
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    The is my least most anticipated season ever; it normally takes me until November to remember all the new faces.

    NNID Sid-Nice

  • The-Bodybuilder 19 Aug 2013 18:09:44 14,074 posts
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    Sorry, when I mean world class I meant "super class2, essentially Messi & Ronaldo class.

    Of course we all know the price for him has nothing to do with that essentially, but just discussing what it implies.
  • Widge Moderator 19 Aug 2013 18:10:25 13,267 posts
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    I always remember keeping an eye out for when RVP was fit in fantasy football, ludicrously deadly and a bargain as a result.

    _ _ _

    www.unpaused.co.uk - electronic noise adjective salad

  • Sid-Nice 19 Aug 2013 18:13:10 15,852 posts
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    Is there any streams from the Etihad Stadium? I know there's a few canals beside Old Trafford.

    NNID Sid-Nice

  • Baihu1983 19 Aug 2013 18:16:57 3,308 posts
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    Players seem to be less injury prone once they leave Arsenal.
  • neilqpr 19 Aug 2013 18:23:19 2,834 posts
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    Scott 'Scotty' Parker to Fulham done.

    Delighted!
  • Orange 19 Aug 2013 18:28:50 4,669 posts
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    Parker would have been dominant in the Championship.
  • Sid-Nice 19 Aug 2013 18:29:41 15,852 posts
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    We have bought nee fucker and that Knut Wenger wants to sign Cabaye.

    NNID Sid-Nice

  • neilqpr 19 Aug 2013 18:31:31 2,834 posts
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    I dunno, we're overloaded in midfield and I'm not sure about his fitness. The vast majority of our lot think it's a bullet dodged.

    Just seen it's a three year deal too!
  • Baihu1983 19 Aug 2013 18:34:40 3,308 posts
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    neilqpr wrote:
    Scott 'Scotty' Parker to Fulham done.

    Delighted!
    3 year deal seems a little long for Old Scotty [a little gutted he has gone but can't see him playing much].

    Edited by Baihu1983 at 18:35:20 19-08-2013
  • Syrette 19 Aug 2013 18:35:17 43,105 posts
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    Rumour that Cabaye has been taken out of the squad tonight.

    Couldn't have waited a day, could you Arsenal?

  • Dougs 19 Aug 2013 18:37:03 66,713 posts
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    Oooh, good, time for Scotty Scotty Scott Scott's customary MotM game against us.
  • Baihu1983 19 Aug 2013 18:39:25 3,308 posts
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    Sky saying Spurs are now the favorites to sign Willian
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