The all-new Premier League thread Page 3803

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  • Baihu1983 23 Jul 2013 13:42:25 3,271 posts
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    Normally with a big signing they tend to be kept at home. I'm sure he will leave at some point just don't think it will be yet. Fail to make a top 4 again next season then yeah he will be gone.
  • Tom_Servo 23 Jul 2013 13:50:56 17,262 posts
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    Despite the occasional story that doesn't really ring true, stuff about Bale has been rather quiet. Madrid haven't been in the press much talking about him AFAIK, and no doubt if they felt a move was still on they wouldn't be off the back pages. I really don't think anything will happen this summer. Next summer? Almost certainly, IMO.

    Probably the press trying to make things more interesting because the summer's transfer saga (Rooney) is incredibly fucking dull, even for a transfer saga.
  • Tuffty 23 Jul 2013 13:51:15 1,500 posts
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    So with Yokohama beating us, we've gone from title winners to worst team ever. That's how pre-season friendlies work right?
  • Baihu1983 23 Jul 2013 13:52:41 3,271 posts
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    UTD normally start crap....
  • kalel 23 Jul 2013 13:52:54 86,259 posts
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    I don't think he's going to go, but I don't think the Asia thing has anything to do with it. All that means is that when we left we didn't think we'd sell him.
  • THFourteen 23 Jul 2013 13:54:18 32,855 posts
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    Baihu1983 wrote:
    THFourteen wrote:
    Baihu1983 wrote:
    @ILoveThrashMetal While out in Asia....
    I'm sure he's got an agent...
    But again if you owned Real would you want him flying out to Asia to play when you are signing a big deal for him?
    Isn't Spain in Asia?
  • Tom_Servo 23 Jul 2013 13:57:51 17,262 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    I don't think he's going to go, but I don't think the Asia thing has anything to do with it. All that means is that when we left we didn't think we'd sell him.
    It'd be quite a risk to sell him now since, as you've said, AVB and Paulinho have been assured he was going nowhere. Even if it was Ronaldo money (80m or so) it'd be a risk for Levy to take. Hell of a lot of wonga but it could have bad repercussions for the dressing room.
  • kalel 23 Jul 2013 13:59:13 86,259 posts
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    I also somehow doubt we'd have let the Villa and Benteke deals fall through over a couple of million if we had 80m on the way.
  • imamazed 23 Jul 2013 14:00:53 5,520 posts
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    There's also the man city effect - If you sell someone for a huge amount like that, you might think you could get in 4 quality players for the same price, but other clubs will hike their prices accordingly; knowing you can afford it.
  • Tom_Servo 23 Jul 2013 14:03:15 17,262 posts
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    The Carroll Effect would be more apt.
  • imamazed 23 Jul 2013 14:07:30 5,520 posts
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    Yes it would actually, fair comment.

    Edited by imamazed at 14:07:41 23-07-2013
  • wogsy81 23 Jul 2013 14:16:39 717 posts
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    Tom_Servo wrote:
    The Carroll Effect would be more apt.
    Haha, us liverpool fans are never gone live that Carroll signing down are we. And deservedly so.

    I still cant believe we paid 35 million quid for that donkey. 35 fucking million. I mean,, 35 fucking million for a guy who had half a good season and scored a header against Arsenal. Thats all he has done in his whole career.

    35 FUCKING MILLION!

    Holy shit, i still can't get over it. 35 fucking million for him.
    I mean, who the fuck ever thought that was a good idea.
    Yeah i know we had the Torres 50 million burning a hole in our pocket but jesus christ. 35 million quid.

    35 fucking million!! I still even now cant quite believe it.
    If that donkey is worth 35 million then what is Van Persie worth. Possibly about a billion quid at them rates.

    35 fucking million?????


    /goes for a lie down
  • The-Bodybuilder 23 Jul 2013 14:19:52 14,052 posts
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    Dougs wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    My only criticism of Levy is that he suffers ever so slightly from 'can dish it out, but can't take it' syndrome.

    I.E. he is unbelievably bullish when others want our players, and plays ludicrous hardball, squeezing every penny out possible. And that's great. But when the shoe's on the other foot, he does seem to stay in a similar mindset of "well fuck you then".

    I guess at heart he's always protecting the interests of the club. I'd just like to see him get over the finish lines a bit more with these deals. So many seem to get to 90% done only to fall away.
    Sounds very familiar. It's no surprise that we are both regarded as very well run clubs though - maximising income from assets whilst not over-exposing ourselves to risk. Or some such nonsense.
    Just a shame we're not regarded as recently successful ones.
    Maybe a bit more risk would suffice.
  • Tom_Servo 23 Jul 2013 14:20:50 17,262 posts
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    :D
  • kalel 23 Jul 2013 14:21:05 86,259 posts
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    There's even less point in Arsenal taking risks than there is Spurs. We at least have Arsenal to get above. Arsenal can't climb up the league unless they spend well beyond the point of risky.
  • President_Weasel 23 Jul 2013 14:22:11 8,936 posts
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    He's never going to live it down either, even though it's not his fault some idiots paid that much for him. He's got some skills, even if they're suited for an old-fashioned play style.
    I wouldn't waste too much sympathy on him though; he's earning sacks of money.
  • The-Bodybuilder 23 Jul 2013 14:28:00 14,052 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    There's even less point in Arsenal taking risks than there is Spurs. We at least have Arsenal to get above. Arsenal can't climb up the league unless they spend well beyond the point of risky.
    I don't think that's the case.
    I really don't think the idea that to win a league you must spend the most (though there is a correlation) or that it's the only option, but smart spending and a good team philosophy can go all the way. We've seen it throughout the history of sports, and not that long ago in other leagues (Montpellier against the odds of significantly richer clubs...including arguably the richest of the lot in PSG). Whether we can be a consistent force is all the more something different (money really would matter then).

    Our recent form has also shown that when consistent, we're not far off from the best. In fact we can beat the rest of the league but come up short in the mini league of the top 4, even when we have significantly far greater and more obvious flaws in our squad compared to...say, City). Form wise, for the past 2 seasons we've been up there....for the 2nd half of the season (like last season when half way through Wenger realized that defending is a bit important, and playing your in form players might make a difference).

    It wasn't even that long ago (08) where we were the form team to win the league. Besides, money shouldn't be needed to beat the likes of Birmingham in a final for a shitty cup.

    Edited by The-Bodybuilder at 14:30:34 23-07-2013
  • morriss 23 Jul 2013 14:31:10 70,911 posts
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    Ben Smith
    Gareth Bale's future is far from certain but I'm told there is no agreement with Real, yet, and that he has not asked to leave #Spurs
  • mikew1985 23 Jul 2013 14:33:29 12,585 posts
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    City, PSG, Monaco Anzhi et al weren't operating at anywhere near to the same level of ridiculousness back in 08 - in fact many weren't even operating at a normal PL spending level. As such it doesn't do much to back up your point.
  • kalel 23 Jul 2013 14:37:20 86,259 posts
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    I think the relationship between money and success in modern football is more than a correlation. It's almost certainly the deciding factor, and even if it isn't, any team that has managed to achieve anything without buying it will instantly be decimated by money anyway.

    That's not to start a whole whinge about financial doping or whatever, but I can see why the likes of Spurs and Arsenal have no-risk policies. There's no point. The clear space above them is minuscule thanks to the likes of Chelsea and City.
  • Shikasama 23 Jul 2013 17:01:41 6,600 posts
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    Ladies and Gentlemen - Sandro

    http://instagram.com/p/cHDbxsE3NA/
  • thedaveeyres 23 Jul 2013 17:05:35 10,684 posts
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    If Harry was still there, he'd put the lad right. "Sit the fack daan an' eat yer fackin' dinner."

    D****** ******r

    XBLA: Hamster Trippin
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  • Blotto 23 Jul 2013 17:08:33 2,707 posts
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    I don't know, maybe not initially, but Spurs and Arsenal could certainly improve year on year and close the gap.

    I'm not sure you can just spend in one window and be title winners, but 2 or 3 astute summers whilst keeping the team together and both teams are capable of it.
  • kalel 23 Jul 2013 17:13:30 86,259 posts
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    There's no way Spurs and Arsenal can raise themselves to the potential level that City and Chelsea can get to. No way.

    What can happen is those City/Chelsea can underachieve, which we've seen Chelsea do a bit recently, but then all that happens is they get in a better manager and spend another 100m on players, and the gap widens again.

    So it's not impossible for Spurs or Arsenal to win the league, but it is impossible for them to become the best teams in the league longterm. Any success they may have will be very fortuitous, and extremely short-lived.

    Edited by kalel at 17:13:59 23-07-2013
  • mikeck 23 Jul 2013 17:18:16 1,901 posts
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    The thing is that both Spurs and Arsenal can beat every other team in the league (as both teams have shown in the past few seasons) the problem is consistency.

    We had a decent record against the top 4 last year, but kept dropping points against the lower opposition, It pains me, because if we're good enough to beat United then surely we're good enough to beat everyone else.

    So in that regard, both Spurs and Arsenal should be aiming to seriously challenge for the league, but over the 38 games without stronger squads it's a big, big ask.

    That's what frustrates me the most.
  • Blotto 23 Jul 2013 17:20:14 2,707 posts
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    Not really talking about long term being the best team in the league, that's difficult for any team, even with infinite money.

    But it's ridiculous to say "Yeah don't bother spending money because you'll only win the league like once or twice, whats the point?"
  • Mr_Sleep 23 Jul 2013 17:22:22 16,838 posts
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    The problem, as has been said before by some, is squad depth. The top sides can afford to have assets sitting on the bench that can go many games without being played because they are on so much money that it makes no difference to them. Where as, for the teams that are less well off it is impossible to keep everyone happy so the 2nd string just aren't anywhere near the quality of the first team.

    I'd say that Spurs's and Arsenal's first team are comparable to the top teams in most areas but the second string wouldn't get a look in. I guess that's where promising youth players come in but then they lack consistency too.

    Edited by Mr_Sleep at 17:23:19 23-07-2013

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • kalel 23 Jul 2013 17:23:42 86,259 posts
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    Don't know who you're quoting there. I didn't say that.

    it is however ridiculous to spend beyond your means for short-term success. Plenty of clubs have proven that is a massive mistake.
  • Shikasama 23 Jul 2013 17:24:11 6,600 posts
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    That's a problem of mentality in football in general though. I've always thought that the idea of a 'first XI' was absolutely ridiculous. Surely you should build a squad that covers a range of skillsets so that you can utilise different assets in different games.

    I think the only team that actually comes close to that is United.
  • Mr_Sleep 23 Jul 2013 17:29:37 16,838 posts
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    Shikasama wrote:
    That's a problem of mentality in football in general though. I've always thought that the idea of a 'first XI' was absolutely ridiculous. Surely you should build a squad that covers a range of skillsets so that you can utilise different assets in different games.

    I think the only team that actually comes close to that is United.
    Goalkeepers are a good example of the problems with a football squad in that you want a top class keeper in 1st and 2nd string but keeping a quality goal keeper that may only play in the cups happy is a very difficult task when they can play and earn more at another club. Most clubs can't afford to have two so they have an inferior, or less consistent replacement.

    In theory if you're playing one striker you probably want at least another two quality ones that can come in if there's an injury or drop of form but it's pretty much only the very top teams that can keep another top quality striker happy who isn't getting played much.

    You are a factory of sadness.

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