The all-new Premier League thread Page 3720

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  • robc84 28 Jun 2013 08:59:12 5,325 posts
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    Ha ha 'Wong'.

    I'm not disputing he would be a decent signing, but I'd much rather us go for a striker. We have townsend back for wing cover, I think the boy could do a decent job. I suppose it depends where Bale is going to play (assuming he stays of course).
  • Jono62 28 Jun 2013 09:01:03 13,961 posts
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    http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11677/8796035/Transfer-News-Reports-claim-Younes-Belhanda-to-decide-between-England-and-Abu-Dhabi

    Tough choice.
  • Dougs 28 Jun 2013 09:02:50 66,713 posts
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    THFourteen wrote:
    Wenger has no idea on the market value of players. He should give the names of targets to someone else, and let them do the business side of things.

    oh wait, the someone else is Gazidis...
    Market value is just what someone is prepared to pay at any given point. Only time will tell if they are good value or not. Plus, at the end of the day, clubs are businesses. As fans we think nothing of insisting clubs don't negotiate to try and get a cheaper price, which is laughable - they have a duty to their shareholders to negotiate the best deal. The only clubs that can afford to not negotiate are City and Chelsea.
  • Tuffty 28 Jun 2013 09:04:25 1,507 posts
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    Getting a bit concerned that we're not getting the players we've been linked with thus far. Thiago is reportedly in talks with Bayern, Isco's gone to Real, Fellaini is linked with every other club but ours and Everton has turned down our offer of 12m for Baines. A few million more and we'll probably get him but still.
  • THFourteen 28 Jun 2013 09:06:41 32,872 posts
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    Dougs wrote:
    THFourteen wrote:
    Wenger has no idea on the market value of players. He should give the names of targets to someone else, and let them do the business side of things.

    oh wait, the someone else is Gazidis...
    Market value is just what someone is prepared to pay at any given point. Only time will tell if they are good value or not. Plus, at the end of the day, clubs are businesses. As fans we think nothing of insisting clubs don't negotiate to try and get a cheaper price, which is laughable - they have a duty to their shareholders to negotiate the best deal. The only clubs that can afford to not negotiate are City and Chelsea.
    Well exactly, if something costs 12m it costs 12m theres no point phoning up every day and going "how about 10m how about 10m how about now? and now? 10m? shake on 10m? 10m it is then? oh shit its august 31st we need to buy santos"

    we should be lowering our expectations and going for players who actually cost what we are willing to pay.
  • Dougs 28 Jun 2013 09:10:00 66,713 posts
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    But you don't start at the price first asked for. Not that I believe the Mail for a second, but your starting point is always going to be lower than the asking price. Much like buying a house. Sometimes you'll meet the asking price, but not often (not including the barmy years, which worked out really well...)
  • Widge Moderator 28 Jun 2013 09:20:11 13,267 posts
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    robc84 wrote:
    faux_carnation wrote:
    Spurs supposedly trying to hijack Mkhitaryan. Quelle surprise.

    (If there's even a deal to hijack, that is.)
    So I have to figure out how to pronounce his name now?
    Yeah, I can imagine it is easier if you are a wookie.

    _ _ _

    www.unpaused.co.uk - electronic noise adjective salad

  • kentmonkey 28 Jun 2013 09:20:21 20,448 posts
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    Houses aren't a greay analogy at the moment. House prices (at least in my local area) are going for what they were advertised for, or in some cases even higher, as there are more people that want houses than there are houses (decent ones anyway, not talking about low-end 100k 1/2 bed flat jobs here, 240k+ houses).

    It's hard to haggle and get a bargain for a house at the moment, unless the buyer needs to sell the house quickly (we got our house for 20% less because they needed to sell due to a quick purchase needed on their next property).

    So, yeah. Agree with TH here. There's no point going for a 300k house if you only have 200k to spend. Going for a 210k house might get you it with that money.

    Same for a player. There aren't that many great or really good players, and there are more rich clubs than ever before. If you want a 12m player, that's coveted by others, you're going to have to pay 12m. End of. The only time you'll get a deal is when no other clubs are interested (Santos), they're secretly really shit and the 10m they originally quoted you, and finally let you buy him for 7m, was a smokescreen (Santos) or when a player has entered their final year of their contract (Sant...Van Persie).
  • THFourteen 28 Jun 2013 09:21:01 32,872 posts
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    But when you're buying a house you put in your search criteria based on an amount that you're actually willing to pay in the first place

    you dont go for a house thats 1m and turn round and say "oh yeah but i only have 500k"

    edit or what KM said

    Edited by THFourteen at 09:21:32 28-06-2013
  • nickthegun 28 Jun 2013 09:23:19 58,847 posts
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    Market value is the price between what two people are willing to pay.

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    He totally called it

  • mcmonkeyplc 28 Jun 2013 09:23:51 39,387 posts
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    I think we should print Ronaldo/Messi bonds and sell them to finances the purchase of said players.

    Yes, that'll work.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • mcmonkeyplc 28 Jun 2013 09:23:53 39,387 posts
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    Post deleted

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Dougs 28 Jun 2013 09:27:19 66,713 posts
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    And that's kinda my point too - overpaying the asking price has ended in disaster for many. And whilst houses might be going for more than the asking price, I doubt many started out negotiating at the top end, which was my other point. If we did bid 9m, it's because that was an opening gambit and decided not to pursue it - time will tell whether that was a good move or not. Houses weren't the greatest analogy, but couldn't be arsed to think of another one!
  • Deckard1 28 Jun 2013 09:30:38 27,209 posts
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    Turkish rugs
  • nickthegun 28 Jun 2013 09:31:11 58,847 posts
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    Who the hell goes in at the top end unless there is a bidding war?

    Like Baines, for example. No one else seems to be in for him, so why would manyoo offer top dollar for him?

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    He totally called it

  • Trowel 28 Jun 2013 09:34:54 17,447 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    Who the hell goes in at the top end unless there is a bidding war?

    Like Baines, for example. No one else seems to be in for him, so why would manyoo offer top dollar for him?
    ITK says Everton are interested in holding on to Baines.
  • nickthegun 28 Jun 2013 09:36:29 58,847 posts
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    Which is fine and probably true but theres still no reason for them to go in high since there isnt a bidding war. They just have to incrementally feel out their price.

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    He totally called it

  • kentmonkey 28 Jun 2013 09:46:26 20,448 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    Who the hell goes in at the top end unless there is a bidding war?

    Like Baines, for example. No one else seems to be in for him, so why would manyoo offer top dollar for him?
    It all depends on your situation. And the price.

    If you want/need a player (I'm dropping the house thing here), you're going to go in at the higher end to try and seal the deal quickly, to stop other interest. You may not bid the full asking price straight away, but you'll be prepared to offer it, otherwise why is this player a priority transfer target?

    So in the case of Baines, if we take reports as fact (hah, yeah, I know), Utd bid 12m to gauge interest from Everton. Everton's response was 'fuck off, pricks'. So they're going in much higher. The difference is that Utd clearly want Baines and have gone in knowing that they may have to pay close to 18m-20m for him, with add-ons, in order to get him, and so are trying their luck.

    To go back to Arsenal, historically we have shown that we have wasted I don't know how much time trying to get transfers done on the cheap, without even wanting to go anywhere near their stated transfer price. "How much? 18m, well we have 10m."

    "Just checking, we still have 10m any interest?"

    "Hello, sorry, us again. 10m?"

    "Hello, yes, this is Ivan here. You must be out, however if you do get this message, I wonder if 10m may interest you?"

    Then on the last day of the transfer window is 'ahhhhhhhh, get me a Korean fromt he French league and the shittest Brazilian you've ever seen. Anything to not make me have to bring on Chamakh'.

    The point is, if you really want a player/house, and you're going in for him, you've got to be prepared to bid somewhere near the asking price in the vast majority of cases. Sometimes over if another bidder comes involved. You might end up with the odd 'bargain' if you continually offer lower prices and snap someone up with 25% off the price, but it'll probably have Dry Diaby Rot or something.

    Like TH said, if you haven't got the money, or don't want to spend that much, adjust your sights accordingly and spend time signing up the players and completing the deals you really do want, rather the speculatively lobbing around bids for players in the hope one might stick. That's if reports are true, which they're often not, so all of this conversation is redundant anyway.
  • roz123 28 Jun 2013 09:58:07 7,112 posts
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    Chelseas method of negotiation:
    http://youtu.be/XZbD86jkPFk
  • nickthegun 28 Jun 2013 10:21:10 58,847 posts
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    Again, being the nexus of all footballing arguments:

    A) Who the fuck were bidding against Liverpool for Andy Carrol?

    B) If the answer is 'no one' why didnt they get laughed out of the boardroom when they asked for 35m?

    I mean, seriously, I dont want to live in a world where liverpool went in and said '20m for Carrol?' and the answer was, with a straight face, 'stick another 15 on top of that and youve got yourself a deal'.

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    He totally called it

  • vijay_UK 28 Jun 2013 10:26:25 2,079 posts
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    I think that's what happened. Newcastle knew they had the hard cash from the Torres sale
  • mcmonkeyplc 28 Jun 2013 10:26:38 39,387 posts
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    Liverpool were getting (are) desperate for success so they'll try anything. Problem is doing so is also likely to get them into a shit load of more trouble.

    The new method of accepting where they are and working their way up again is far better.

    Yes, We'll have to do that soon enough too

    Edited by mcmonkeyplc at 10:27:48 28-06-2013

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Syrette 28 Jun 2013 10:28:41 43,105 posts
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    liverplol

  • nickthegun 28 Jun 2013 10:29:22 58,847 posts
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    I know everyone knew they had the torres money and everyone knows how desperate they are to get back in the top four but, honestly.. its absolutely unfathomable how that price was come up with and, astonishingly, agreed on.

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    He totally called it

  • Dougs 28 Jun 2013 10:29:53 66,713 posts
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    I can't help but think of the Seth Johnson story.
  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 28 Jun 2013 10:30:34 6,654 posts
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    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    Liverpool were getting (are) desperate for success so they'll try anything. Problem is doing so is also likely to get them into a shit load of more trouble.

    The new method of accepting where they are and working their way up again is far better.

    Yes, We'll have to do that soon enough too
    This whole Moyes thing is going to go to shit isn't it. Hate to think it, because he's a nice guy.
  • mcmonkeyplc 28 Jun 2013 10:50:16 39,387 posts
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    bitch_tits_zero_nine wrote:
    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    Liverpool were getting (are) desperate for success so they'll try anything. Problem is doing so is also likely to get them into a shit load of more trouble.

    The new method of accepting where they are and working their way up again is far better.

    Yes, We'll have to do that soon enough too
    This whole Moyes thing is going to go to shit isn't it. Hate to think it, because he's a nice guy.
    It might not and that should scare the living shit out of everyone if that happens :)

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Mr_Sleep 28 Jun 2013 10:54:25 16,851 posts
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    kentmonkey wrote:
    So, yeah. Agree with TH here. There's no point going for a 300k house if you only have 200k to spend. Going for a 210k house might get you it with that money.

    Same for a player.
    So, what you're saying is that Arsenal need to hire Kirsty and Phil to buy players for them, right?

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • nickthegun 28 Jun 2013 10:58:03 58,847 posts
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    They would be better off with Mike Brewer.

    '8 MILLION OF HIGUIAN? GO ON, HOLD OUT YOUR HAND AND AV A DEAL WIV ME!'

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    He totally called it

  • TheSaint 28 Jun 2013 11:05:32 14,201 posts
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    I was under the impression that the deal Liverpool agreed with Chelsea for Torres was whatever Carrol would cost plus 15mil. So Liverpool were only really screwing Chelsea by asking so much for Carrol.

    That could be totally wrong though.
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