The all-new Premier League thread Page 3472

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  • nickthegun 23 Apr 2013 13:55:58 68,474 posts
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    You would also never catch a load of footballers partying in a three bed semi these days either. There wouldnt be enough room on my nans street for all the range rovers for one thing.
  • Humperfunk 23 Apr 2013 13:58:00 5,748 posts
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    TheSaint wrote:
    nickthegun wrote:
    Poyet vocally defended him after the evra incident too didnt he?
    Yep. I remember it well as we played them just after that and he got more abuse than usual.
    I jokingly said to a mate down the pub during the game "Can't wait to hear Poyet defend him again", without actually thinking he'd stick his beak in again...and then he did.

    Poyet seemed like an alright guy before defending the racism, so this has tipped my estimation of him further now to "general cunt"
  • The-Bodybuilder 23 Apr 2013 13:58:45 16,248 posts
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    In regards to SAFs greatness....

    I can't say that he's the greatest club manager (IMO, the most successful, but as kalel said, has he left a tangible legacy on the game of football?)

    I'll tell you what I do think is certain though; he's the most adaptive manager of all time IMO.
  • Commander-Keen 23 Apr 2013 14:00:33 915 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    You would also never catch a load of footballers partying in a three bed semi these days either. There wouldnt be enough room on my nans street for all the range rovers for one thing.
    I think the trade off would be that most footballers *probably* party a lot less these days though. The era of pints and pies with the fans is long gone. Enough of them are even teetotal now.

    The boring fuckers.
  • Deleted user 23 April 2013 14:01:50
    Brian Clough was the fucking man. Way more charisma than SAF imo.
  • Blaketown 23 Apr 2013 14:06:30 5,658 posts
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    danathjo wrote:
    meanwhile this poor bloke is getting quite a following :D
    https://twitter.com/rvp
    I like that this has spawned a #heconsultswhenhewants hashtag.
  • Blaketown 23 Apr 2013 14:10:11 5,658 posts
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    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    In regards to SAFs greatness....

    I can't say that he's the greatest club manager (IMO, the most successful, but as kalel said, has he left a tangible legacy on the game of football?)

    I'll tell you what I do think is certain though; he's the most adaptive manager of all time IMO.
    Exactly this, no one has adapted to changes in the game as effectively. Totally unique.

    His legacy though, is Manchester United as the entity they are now. There's a bit of luck that his reign coincided with the money in the game exploding. But I'd guess United are a top 4 team for a long time now and when I was a kid they were far from that.
  • Dougs 23 Apr 2013 14:16:54 79,544 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    You would also never catch a load of footballers partying in a three bed semi these days either. There wouldnt be enough room on my nans street for all the range rovers for one thing.
    Ryan Shawcross does. His mum drives him there
  • Commander-Keen 23 Apr 2013 14:18:25 915 posts
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    My tuppence on the SAF/Greatness thing:

    Firstly, it would be pretty churlish not to include him in any consideration, just because of the sheer weight of silver-wear he's collected throughout his career. He's had a huge impact on the game and is a living footballing legend who will be harked back to once he's gone in the same way that people are doing above with Clough, and the likes of Bobby Robson.

    For me, the double-edged sword with SAF is the fact that he's spent the vast majority of his career with one club only. In many ways, that in itself is a colossal achievement which most of his peers have not managed.

    On the other hand, you could argue that to be considered truly great, you have to prove you can do over and again - that it wasn't just a one off or fluke. I know people mentioned Aberdeen, the that really was a different era where a little bit of professionalism could take you a long way - the game has now caught up and is a lot tougher.

    At the moment, it's hard to argue against SAF. In time, if someone like Mourinho or Pep manages to match (or come close) to his record, you could see a lot of people backing them for managing it in different leagues, in different cultures and so forth. Basically not "playing it safe" and achieving and delivering at every level and proving that it is / was no fluke.
  • The-Bodybuilder 23 Apr 2013 14:23:46 16,248 posts
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    But then some could argue its easy to make a claim as a great, successful manager if you keep going to successful and rich clubs to spend their money to win stuff. He's faced different challanges in different eras, and has overcomed them all.

    In regards to a legacy, I meant an actual tangible legacy to all of football (sorry United fans, but we're not gonna hold your club dearly), like a way of playing style that sticks forever. But he has seen each and every new style that has come his way and has adapted to them all.

    We say only the strong survive. Well to have survive this long surely pits him as one of the strongest.
  • graysonavich 23 Apr 2013 14:27:52 8,272 posts
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    He's ruined more strikers than he's bought for top market price.
  • Commander-Keen 23 Apr 2013 14:29:38 915 posts
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    Shikasama wrote:
    I love how people go on about there being no loyalty in football and then denigrate players/managers for staying with one club.
    Come off it - I was hardly denigrating him! :D

    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    We say only the strong survive. Well to have survive this long surely pits him as one of the strongest.
    No argument from me here on that. He's a living legend for sure.
  • nickthegun 23 Apr 2013 14:29:44 68,474 posts
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    Although he somehow got a billion goals out of Andy Cole.

    Its strange to think Andy Cole would be the first name on the England team sheet now.
  • Commander-Keen 23 Apr 2013 14:38:51 915 posts
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    Berbatov is one that baffled me. He fought tooth and nail to turn the player's head and made him their most expensive signing all time and then what? Didn't fancy him? You'd think scouting could have covered that off, if it was something he saw up close that he was unaware of. And left for nothing too while now banging them in for Fulham.

    All very odd. Him and Bebe. WTF was that all about?
  • graysonavich 23 Apr 2013 14:46:35 8,272 posts
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    Some players just don't work his 4 striker system. But the conveyor belt doesn't matter when you have infinity billion pounds.

    He also doesn't like strikers that can tackle. You'll find yourself in the midfield next Saturday if you can throw yourself about a bit.
  • morriss 23 Apr 2013 15:25:53 71,298 posts
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    graysonavich wrote:
    Some players just don't work his 4 striker system. But the conveyor belt doesn't matter when you have infinity billion pounds.

    He'll buy Bale for next season and everyone will again say how amazing they are.
  • Commander-Keen 23 Apr 2013 15:34:34 915 posts
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    @Shikasama I think people value loyalty for sure, but I don't think most fans or commentators are naive about it. People come and go - it's the manner in which they do so which irks I suppose.

    On the one hand, if you're happy and settled and feel valued in a good team which are doing well, why would you leave? On the other, if you've contributed to a club and worked hard for them, I think only the most myopic of fans would get upset when a player / manager then turns around and seeks out a fresh challenge.

    I actually think that Arsenal fans reactions to the likes of Fabregas and RvP leaving, vs, say, Nasri or Adebayor are quite telling. As far as I can tell, the former category are treated with some level of empathy, if not quite sympathy, while the latter are hated for the manner of their departures.

    I digress though. SAF is where he is and Utd are a hell of a club to have stayed at for all that time; it's hardly Alan Curbishley and Charlton. I just think that down the line, if / when Pep or Mou come to be compared, their determination to prove they could do it abroad will probably count in their favour.
  • President_Weasel 23 Apr 2013 15:34:58 11,962 posts
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    It's "silverware" as in cups and plates and trophies. You don't wear it.
  • Commander-Keen 23 Apr 2013 15:36:07 915 posts
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    morriss wrote:
    He'll buy Bale for next season and everyone will again say how amazing they are.
    Excellent trolling.
  • Commander-Keen 23 Apr 2013 15:37:42 915 posts
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    @President_Weasel That's my auto-correct kicking in there.

    The point still stands though :)
  • mikew1985 23 Apr 2013 16:22:56 14,182 posts
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    I don't think anyone is intentionally looking over it but at the time SAF took over United we were a bit of cup team, continually missing out on the title, not quite a modern liverpool but maybe like a current Spurs or something similar.

    He came in and really reinvented United as a force, then continued to do so over an unparalleled number of seasons. I really think it's silly to mark him down in any way for being at United pretty much his entire managerial career, I would of course.

    Can you imagine if Rodgers(lol) went on to do that with Liverpool or AVB with Spurs? It is an absolutely phenomenal achievement.
  • morriss 23 Apr 2013 16:23:57 71,298 posts
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22259910 - "I bought the best striker in the country and one of the best in the world for money only one other club in Europe could afford and his goals helped me win something."
  • nickthegun 23 Apr 2013 16:29:01 68,474 posts
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    Because the man u side is average for a man u side and the arsenal side is average for an arsenal side and all that implies.
  • nickthegun 23 Apr 2013 16:32:18 68,474 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    That would be something I agree with. But it kind of implies that SAF didn't buy the league, he strengthened his side to the point where it would win.
    Theres really no difference other than semantics, unless he strengthened the squad from youth players and free transfers.
  • Latin 23 Apr 2013 16:40:27 4,075 posts
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    I think people generally agree that City and Chelsea's players are better than Utd's... So why can't he take massive credit for trouncing them?

    His GK is (supposedly) worse, his defence is (supposedly) worse, his midfield is (supposedly) worse. So only his attack would be argued to be better and how many would argue that Aguero, Tevez, Dzeko and Balotelli were massively inferior to RVP, Rooney, Hernandez and Welbeck (at the beginning of the season).

    Yes he signed a great player to help his team, but what did Chelsea and City do? Sit on their hands and whistle? Both spent more than Utd in the summer.
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