Child benefit to be cut Page 21

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  • Dougs 7 Jan 2013 14:14:10 69,547 posts
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    Scurrminator wrote:
    I don't see why it's a disaster. Why should everyone get it? Some people need it and others don't.
    I've heard some people bitching that they are the sole worker in their house and thus they will be worse off. Well how about your other half gets the fuck to work so the rest of us don't have to subsidise that lifestyle!
    As I say, I don't really object to the idea that some need it, others don't. But as discussed, that need largely depends on where you live, what your other out-goings are etc. It's more the implementation that bothers me - no matter which way you cut it, the way they have chosen to do it is unfair and discriminatory and is borderline regressive.

    There could be many reasons why both parents don't work. The flailing economy and the negative impact on women in particular. Even with tax-breaks for vouchers, it's not a huge stretch to imagine it not being financially worth some going back to work.
  • darrenb 7 Jan 2013 14:17:56 696 posts
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    I have always thought you should only get benefit of any kind for just you first/eldest child..

    When that one hits 16/18 it drops to the next child.

    As for being 2k worse off. In know of people that are right on the limit of the cut that will opt for additional holiday rather than a small pay rise at review time. More time off then with the same total income. Companies are happy as they aren't paying out more.
  • Bremenacht 7 Jan 2013 14:20:48 19,666 posts
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    Incidentally, the only way a lot of people can afford to live in London is by living in sheds or other forms 'non-permanent' accomodation. I think the attempt to relax planning laws had the people who live in these forms of accomodation in mind.
  • morriss 7 Jan 2013 14:33:11 71,287 posts
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    Great to see Britain investing in the future. Onwards and upwards.
  • Scurrminator 7 Jan 2013 14:41:28 8,472 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Scurrminator wrote:
    I'm also a firm believer that if you can't afford children then should you really be having them; we're not having anymore as it would be far too costly to do so.
    Where do you draw that line though? Take away free education? Take away free healthcare?

    The country gets fucked pretty quickly if having children is only something the rich can afford.
    That's not what I'm saying. More that people should think about the sacrifices they will need to make a bit more rather than ah it'll be fine, some money will fall out of the sky.
    Now I'd bet no-one here would think like that; but there are loads that do unfortunately.
    I think child benefit, like education and healthcare, is taken for granted.
    If you're talking about drawing a line then where is the line where someone earns enough to say no to child benefit? Most people will not turn down free money so someone has to step in and say this has to stop. Otherwise it would never change.
    FWIW i fucking hate the tories but I agree with the idea in principle.

    You dare to strike Scurrcules!?

  • morriss 7 Jan 2013 14:43:47 71,287 posts
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    How do you educate the people? Shout at them? Send a pamphlet round? Or just punish them economically and tell them they deserve it because they don't have the foresight you do?

    Amazing arguments as usual.
  • morriss 7 Jan 2013 14:44:37 71,287 posts
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    Scurrminator wrote:

    I think child benefit, like education and healthcare, is taken for granted.
    And so it fucking should be.
  • Deleted user 7 January 2013 14:49:05
    I've actually not claimed child benefit as it happens, even though I could have done. I doubt I'm entirely exceptional either (well, maybe slightly).

    And I have to say, I think it's reasonable for everyone to be entitled to at least one child, and that the system will help you support it. Anyone that pays tax will have put a reasonable amount into the next generation. Seems only fair that they get to actually have a kid.
  • Dougs 7 Jan 2013 14:49:18 69,547 posts
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    I don't think anyone has kids for the 20pw that child benefit brings in. That seemed to be the argument on the Jeremy Vine show earlier (by the bint that was on the apprentice).

    @Scurr - if it was done on household income, then I'd have more sympathy for the policy, even if it meant I might lose out myself in the future. Regardless of the reasons for only one parent working, it's just wrong that a couple earning potentially 99k split evenly get CB and one household on 60k doesn't.
  • Dougs 7 Jan 2013 14:50:25 69,547 posts
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    @Kal, interesting, why not? As much as anything, it's important for your wife to claim for NI purposes (or always used to be, system might have changed recently)
  • TheSaint 7 Jan 2013 14:54:55 14,834 posts
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    The BBC's coverage of this whole issue has been terrible. The other day they were trying to make us feel sorry for some woman who had a combined household income of over 100K and claimed that the money she got from child benefit kept her children in shoes for the year.
  • Deleted user 7 January 2013 14:59:34
    Dougs wrote:
    @Kal, interesting, why not? As much as anything, it's important for your wife to claim for NI purposes (or always used to be, system might have changed recently)
    Oh you can claim but not receive or something stupid like that. Can't remember exactly what we did. Basically we're on the grid.
  • Scurrminator 7 Jan 2013 15:08:33 8,472 posts
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    Dougs wrote:
    I don't think anyone has kids for the 20pw that child benefit brings in. That seemed to be the argument on the Jeremy Vine show earlier (by the bint that was on the apprentice).

    @Scurr - if it was done on household income, then I'd have more sympathy for the policy, even if it meant I might lose out myself in the future. Regardless of the reasons for only one parent working, it's just wrong that a couple earning potentially 99k split evenly get CB and one household on 60k doesn't.
    I agree that the way it is done is not perfect. I suppose there are a lot of ways out of it if they do it that way and this was the easiest for the government. Though they will probably fuck it up as usual.
    For example my wife called them this morning to see what she owed them/they owed her after her self assessment. At first they said they owed her 4 grand. She said that wasn't right. One minute later she owed them 60 quid.

    You dare to strike Scurrcules!?

  • Scurrminator 7 Jan 2013 15:09:07 8,472 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Dougs wrote:
    @Kal, interesting, why not? As much as anything, it's important for your wife to claim for NI purposes (or always used to be, system might have changed recently)
    Oh you can claim but not receive or something stupid like that. Can't remember exactly what we did. Basically we're on the grid.
    What are your reasons for not doing so though? You're entitled to it and work for it? Curious!

    You dare to strike Scurrcules!?

  • Bremenacht 7 Jan 2013 15:09:19 19,666 posts
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    TheSaint wrote:
    The other day they were trying to make us feel sorry for some woman who had a combined household income of over 100K and claimed that the money she got from child benefit kept her children in shoes for the year.
    Kids shoes.

    "We will ask you 'what do you spend your child benefit on?' and you will answer 'shoes for the kids'. Say anything different and you won't get on the telly."
  • Deleted user 7 January 2013 15:10:53
    To be clear we wouldn't now be entitled anyway, but in the past we didn't claim, because we were comfortable without the support.
  • Deleted user 7 January 2013 15:11:33
    Kids shoes are fucking expensive to be honest. They cost the same as adult shoes and they grow out of them in about a week. It's a joke.
  • Scurrminator 7 Jan 2013 15:11:59 8,472 posts
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    morriss wrote:
    How do you educate the people? Shout at them? Send a pamphlet round? Or just punish them economically and tell them they deserve it because they don't have the foresight you do?

    Amazing arguments as usual.
    This would hold a lot more weight if it was a blanket wide 'you can't have CB' - but it's not. People that are on that money aren't fucking stupid.

    Edited by Scurrminator at 15:13:59 07-01-2013

    You dare to strike Scurrcules!?

  • Scurrminator 7 Jan 2013 15:13:13 8,472 posts
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    Bremenacht wrote:
    TheSaint wrote:
    The other day they were trying to make us feel sorry for some woman who had a combined household income of over 100K and claimed that the money she got from child benefit kept her children in shoes for the year.
    Kids shoes.

    "We will ask you 'what do you spend your child benefit on?' and you will answer 'shoes for the kids'. Say anything different and you won't get on the telly."
    'we've had to give the house servants a pay cut so as not to inconvenience poor Billy! Damn you Camertron!'

    You dare to strike Scurrcules!?

  • Dougs 7 Jan 2013 15:14:48 69,547 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Kids shoes are fucking expensive to be honest. They cost the same as adult shoes and they grow out of them in about a week. It's a joke.
    It's staggering the lack of competition that Clarks have. 32 for kids shoes. 32!
  • Scurrminator 7 Jan 2013 15:14:50 8,472 posts
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    Ha ha - no, but I clearly am! Can i have some moar benefits!

    and then I edited the wrong post, I'm on a roll!!!

    You dare to strike Scurrcules!?

  • morriss 7 Jan 2013 15:15:10 71,287 posts
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    Has the tightening media really poisoned most people to believe that most people don't deserve hand puts and are just lazy scroungers? Or do most of the twenty-something know-it-alls on here have independent empirical evidence to support these notions? Or is it just easy to single out the weak and punish ten while rebelling in how strong-minded and well educated you are whilst naively asking the question why everyone can't be like you?

    You people shouldn't be allowed to vote. :)
  • Dougs 7 Jan 2013 15:16:06 69,547 posts
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    Anyway, CB is meant to be support for the kids so of course you're going to say that's what it's used for, even if in practice it gets lumped into the main account.
  • Scurrminator 7 Jan 2013 15:17:08 8,472 posts
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    Deckard1 wrote:
    How fucking dare you! I feel like I've been raped!
    I cuddled you(tree) afterwards while you slumbered if that makes you feel better

    You dare to strike Scurrcules!?

  • nickthegun 7 Jan 2013 15:17:44 61,349 posts
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    I remember my mum once forgot to claim her family allowance for me and my brother for so long it allowed her to finally buy a TV for the kitchen when she remembered to cash it in.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • Deleted user 7 January 2013 15:19:11
    morriss wrote:
    Has the tightening media really poisoned most people to believe that most people don't deserve hand puts and are just lazy scroungers? Or do most of the twenty-something know-it-alls on here have independent empirical evidence to support these notions? Or is it just easy to single out the weak and punish ten while rebelling in how strong-minded and well educated you are whilst naively asking the question why everyone can't be like you?

    You people shouldn't be allowed to vote. :)
    Do you have empirical evidence for your opinion?
  • Scurrminator 7 Jan 2013 15:20:29 8,472 posts
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    morriss wrote:
    Has the tightening media really poisoned most people to believe that most people don't deserve hand puts and are just lazy scroungers? Or do most of the twenty-something know-it-alls on here have independent empirical evidence to support these notions? Or is it just easy to single out the weak and punish ten while rebelling in how strong-minded and well educated you are whilst naively asking the question why everyone can't be like you?

    You people shouldn't be allowed to vote. :)
    No-one should be if these twats keep getting in!

    I haven't seen or heard from anyone that has a genuine problem that has arisen from this. Maybe that's just my social circle (and a lot of them are above the threshold).
    The few that have moaned have just made me roll my eyes as it's families where the wife has chosen to stay at home while the husband (who is on 70k ish) works and they are well off - the 80 makes no difference. Yet they moan; I'm not sure what he is moaning about. Maybe it IS the shoes!!!

    You dare to strike Scurrcules!?

  • Deleted user 7 January 2013 15:24:32
    morriss wrote:
    Or do most of the twenty-something know-it-alls on here have independent empirical evidence to support these notions? Or is it just easy to single out the weak and punish ten while rebelling in how strong-minded and well educated you are whilst naively asking the question why everyone can't be like you?

    You people shouldn't be allowed to vote. :)
    Now quite sure who this is aimed at. I think a grand total of maybe two people have been arguing against benefits, and neither have put across an opinion as strong as the ones you're reacting against.
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