Child benefit to be cut Page 19

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  • Hermiod 7 Oct 2010 14:14:44 3,702 posts
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    woodnotes wrote:
    Sperm donation takes a quick wank. Surrogacy takes 9 months, 6 months of which is discomforting, causes stretch marks and ends in pain and tears with likely psychological trauma from having to hand the baby over.

    It's illegal because many women could (and would) put themselves through that trauma just because of temporary financial desperation.

    Yet it's legal in the Netherlands, Belgium, Israel, Sweden, the Ukraine and various states in the US amongst many other nations.

    And, in this country sperm donors have no anonymity. Does the psychological trauma of a 18 year old child you didn't know you had turning up on your doorstep not count ?
  • Hermiod 7 Oct 2010 14:15:52 3,702 posts
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    woodnotes wrote:
    If only the storyline from Junior could come true.

    Please show me the post where I said it should be possible for men to go through pregnancy.
  • bzzct 7 Oct 2010 14:22:36 1,725 posts
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    To be honest, Hermiod - you're arguing a pretty strange point here. You're arguing for a view that you don't actually hold yourself (i.e. you yourself are not a man that wants to be single yet also be a parent), and so are just guessing at what the desires of/problems for these hypothetical defendants actually are.

    Considering you say you don't want children yourself, I assume what you were saying about adoption isn't from personal experience, so how do you know men are actually discriminated by the system? If a lower proportion of single men applying for adoption get young babies maybe it's because a lower proportion of single men that apply are suitable to raise young babies?
  • mrpon 7 Oct 2010 14:23:10 28,742 posts
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    woodnotes wrote:
    You should watch some old episodes of Brookside.
    Calm down.

    Give yourself 5 or gig, you're worth it.

  • jonsaan 7 Oct 2010 14:24:14 25,342 posts
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    eh! day doo do don'tdey

    FCUTA!

  • Hermiod 7 Oct 2010 14:30:29 3,702 posts
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    bzzct wrote:
    To be honest, Hermiod - you're arguing a pretty strange point here. You're arguing for a view that you don't actually hold yourself (i.e. you yourself are not a man that wants to be single yet also be a parent), and so are just guessing at what the desires of/problems for these hypothetical defendants actually are.

    Considering you say you don't want children yourself, I assume what you were saying about adoption isn't from personal experience, so how do you know men are actually discriminated by the system? If a lower proportion of single men applying for adoption get young babies maybe it's because a lower proportion of single men that apply are suitable to raise young babies?

    Maybe so, I do not know. If that is the case, what is it about these men that is making them unsuitable, theoretically ?

    I can only go by what I read, I want I have read in the past suggests that single men who do adopt generally adopt children older considerably older than the average age of an adopted child.

    I did not mean for this to be turned in to a huge debate, but unfortunately those who think I'm arguing some bizarre case for male pregnancy have turned it in to one.
  • jonsaan 7 Oct 2010 14:32:37 25,342 posts
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    One more time, mate, I'll take you to fuckin' cleaners!

    FCUTA!

  • Hermiod 7 Oct 2010 14:35:51 3,702 posts
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    Smuggo wrote:
    Hermiod wrote:
    Maybe so, I do not know. If that is the case, what is it about these men that is making them unsuitable, theoretically ?

    They're baby-raping paedos?

    Who are asylum seekers who killed Princess Diana and gave everyone swine flu too while holding back the discovery of some miracle diet food that cures cancer, I assume ?

    Yeah, the Daily Express wants its opinions back.
  • Dougs 7 Oct 2010 14:36:22 67,140 posts
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    Blessed are the cheesemakers? What's so special about those?
  • bzzct 7 Oct 2010 14:44:18 1,725 posts
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    Hermiod wrote:
    bzzct wrote:
    To be honest, Hermiod - you're arguing a pretty strange point here. You're arguing for a view that you don't actually hold yourself (i.e. you yourself are not a man that wants to be single yet also be a parent), and so are just guessing at what the desires of/problems for these hypothetical defendants actually are.

    Considering you say you don't want children yourself, I assume what you were saying about adoption isn't from personal experience, so how do you know men are actually discriminated by the system? If a lower proportion of single men applying for adoption get young babies maybe it's because a lower proportion of single men that apply are suitable to raise young babies?

    Maybe so, I do not know. If that is the case, what is it about these men that is making them unsuitable, theoretically ?

    I can only go by what I read, I want I have read in the past suggests that single men who do adopt generally adopt children older considerably older than the average age of an adopted child.

    I did not mean for this to be turned in to a huge debate, but unfortunately those who think I'm arguing some bizarre case for male pregnancy have turned it in to one.
    Well you did stop discussing child benefits and then referred to children as an "opportunity denied to me by a combination of outdated, gynocentric laws", before querying what anyone could possibly find funny about such a statement, and then arguing there are sexist prejudices in an adoption system you have no experience of.
  • Hermiod 7 Oct 2010 14:44:43 3,702 posts
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    Not anyone, just this morriss troll.
  • bzzct 7 Oct 2010 14:46:05 1,725 posts
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    Hermiod wrote:
    Not anyone, just this morriss troll.
    Erm, ok, I'll reword. Once again this slight semantic change makes little difference to the actual thrust of the argument:

    Well you did stop discussing child benefits and then referred to children as an "opportunity denied to me by a combination of outdated, gynocentric laws", before querying what morriss could possibly find funny about such a statement, and then arguing there are sexist prejudices in an adoption system you have no experience of.
  • Hermiod 7 Oct 2010 14:56:19 3,702 posts
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    Which doesn't change the fact that it was the nonsensical idea that I was arguing that it's unfair that men can't go through pregnancy that caused the problem.

    I disagree that a lack of personal experience of anything should exclude you from having an opinion. I've never been murdered, does that mean I shouldn't sit on a jury ?

    A lack of personal experience just makes me more objective than anything else. My opinion is not coloured by negative experiences.
  • jonsaan 7 Oct 2010 14:58:56 25,342 posts
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    You have been murdered today on here as it goes. ;)

    FCUTA!

  • Hermiod 7 Oct 2010 14:59:39 3,702 posts
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    Post deleted
  • LeoliansBro 7 Oct 2010 15:00:54 43,746 posts
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    Hermiod wrote:
    I've never been murdered, does that mean I shouldn't sit on a jury ?
    No, there are many, many other reasons which should come first.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • bzzct 7 Oct 2010 15:02:25 1,725 posts
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    Hermiod wrote:
    Which doesn't change the fact that it was the nonsensical idea that I was arguing that it's unfair that men can't go through pregnancy that caused the problem.
    Replace "nonsensical idea" with "joke" and the problem will go away. What you said could be read as someone claiming they (a man) want to be pregnant. People ran with it. Jees...

    I disagree that a lack of personal experience of anything should exclude you from having an opinion.
    It does not, but saying you're discriminated against by law has the hint of a more objective claim than someone just expressing an opinion.

    A lack of personal experience just makes me more objective than anything else.
    No it doesn't "just" do that it - it does that and also makes you less informed. Are you seriously saying you have a thorough informed knowledge of how the adoption system works despite not having been involved in it, and your not having ever been involved in it is actually an even further bonus because it removes bias?
  • DaM 7 Oct 2010 15:09:16 12,985 posts
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    Can I just remind any of you single men here thinking about trying to get pregnant, you will NOT get Child Benefit if you pay tax at the higher rate.

    Carry on!
  • Hermiod 7 Oct 2010 15:26:29 3,702 posts
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    bbzct - I have read accounts from those who have been through the process. Male, female, single, married, gay, straight.

    By your argument, all of our MPs should have gone through the adoption process too, otherwise they should not be able to legislate on the subject.
  • bzzct 7 Oct 2010 16:10:09 1,725 posts
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    Hermiod wrote:
    By your argument, all of our MPs should have gone through the adoption process too, otherwise they should not be able to legislate on the subject.
    No, that's not my argument... That's not it by a long way... I would certainly expect anyone with significant power over adoption laws to do more than "read accounts from those how have been through the process" though.

    This isn't really going anywhere productive anymore though so I won't keep trying to rephrase unless the discussion actually moves on.
  • mrpon 7 Oct 2010 22:45:46 28,742 posts
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    On Question Time now BBC1.

    Give yourself 5 or gig, you're worth it.

  • Deleted user 7 October 2010 23:11:41
    *Snip

    Tired and that may be more information than is permitted so just to be careful it's gone.
  • deem 7 Oct 2010 23:37:48 31,641 posts
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    She had 4 kids and only worked 20 hours a week?

    She needs a slap upside the head.
  • spamdangled 7 Oct 2010 23:53:03 27,276 posts
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    deem wrote:
    She had 4 kids and only worked 20 hours a week?

    She needs a slap upside the head.

    Playing devil's advocate for a second, if she had 4 kids, even on 30k a year (which really isn't that much), she probably wouldn't have been able to afford full-time childcare, effectively forcing her into part-time.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • woodnotes 8 Oct 2010 00:06:01 4,923 posts
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    Hermiod wrote:
    woodnotes wrote:
    If only the storyline from Junior could come true.

    Please show me the post where I said it should be possible for men to go through pregnancy.
    Why so serious.
  • Dougs 29 Oct 2010 12:34:11 67,140 posts
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    Plans to fine those who don't declare, also unenforceable. Possibly. This really is farcical. Policy making at its finest.
  • jonsaan 29 Oct 2010 12:54:44 25,342 posts
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    So that's all the politicians scuppered then! Or not, as the case may be.

    FCUTA!

  • Dougs 7 Jan 2013 12:22:04 67,140 posts
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    So, seeing as today is the day the changes come into force, has anyone opted out of child benefit? And who will be completing a self assessment? Personally, I'm OK at the moment but as soon as I nudge over that threshold, I'll be throwing money into my pension. The whole policy is so disastrous
  • GiarcYekrub 7 Jan 2013 12:28:42 3,731 posts
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    Meh! Its only for rich people on 50K+ they can afford a cut
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