Dark Souls Page 801

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  • LeoliansBro 18 Jun 2013 11:36:29 43,796 posts
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    Nah I'm aiming for the Demon Great Machete in the end. Although I might end up throwing that over for the Zweihander, just in case I need to hit anything to death with it :)

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Deleted user 18 June 2013 11:37:09
    Now that IS an awesome Strength weapon indeed :)
  • quadfather 18 Jun 2013 11:41:19 11,978 posts
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    Scales A with strength at +11 too

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • LeoliansBro 18 Jun 2013 11:44:03 43,796 posts
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    Yeah, it's awesome.

    Rather stupidly I've missed out a ton of stuff on my run through. The Depths ring that restores HP, the Power Within spell from Blighttown (in fact I did the whole thing before unlocking Shiva so I don't know where he'll turn up, if at all), and i couldn't find the miic in Sens to save my life. Oolacile didn't spawn in her golden fella either.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • senso-ji 18 Jun 2013 11:52:09 5,851 posts
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    Oh, and regarding fist based weapons - if you wear the gauntlet of thorns (from Kirk's armour set), you get a damage boost to your attacks. Sometimes it's worth it, considering the short range you have to contend with.
  • LeoliansBro 18 Jun 2013 11:55:11 43,796 posts
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    Missed Kirk as well :(

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Deleted user 18 June 2013 12:07:40
    @quadfather By the way, first thing I did yesterday was kill that bloody merchant. Ran all the way there from Anor Londo screaming with my sword in the air and chopped him to bits. Very satisfying. So got the Uchigatana now. I used my +10 scimitar for the Fury Sword and thinking of +15 the Uchigatana for my backup weapon. Does that sound a good plan?
  • Deleted user 18 June 2013 12:09:12
    Jesus, you will be spending 33 hours on farming. :)
  • LeoliansBro 18 Jun 2013 12:13:25 43,796 posts
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    OK, one more question, bet I've missed something obvious.

    Weapons have physical damage, magic damage, fire damage or lightning damage. Often more than one damage type applies. Is the total attack value of the weapon therefore the total of these numbers?

    Example: a Zwei +15 does 325 physical damage (STR scale C) but a Lightning Zwei +5 does 325 physical and 325 lightning damage for a total of 650 damage (no scale). And an Occult Zwei +5 does 231 physical and 245 magic damage for a total of 476 damage (Str scale D), making it probably the best for a STR build.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Mr_Sleep 18 Jun 2013 12:17:18 16,933 posts
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    I think the elemental Zwei is rather ace for the first run through, scaling doesn't really come into it too much as you wont be able to match its damage with your stats as they will be, then on NG+ you can then grab it again and have it as a pure scaling weapon and switch them around when the scaling suits.

    I have always wondered what the benefits are of raw as I had a raw broadsword for a while and it was ace.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • LeoliansBro 18 Jun 2013 12:21:30 43,796 posts
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    Raw's a quick fix for more damage earlier.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • quadfather 18 Jun 2013 13:18:25 11,978 posts
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    BillCityfingers wrote:
    @quadfather By the way, first thing I did yesterday was kill that bloody merchant. Ran all the way there from Anor Londo screaming with my sword in the air and chopped him to bits. Very satisfying. So got the Uchigatana now. I used my +10 scimitar for the Fury Sword and thinking of +15 the Uchigatana for my backup weapon. Does that sound a good plan?
    Yup, an uchi +15 on a 40 dex char with a bit of magic buffs is a solid plan.

    The furysword, whilst not the most powerful weapon, is certainly fun and it's very easy to farm mobs that dont like fire with it. You'll cut a swathe. Try it on the slimes in the depths just in front of the first bonfire. I get addicted to killing them while putting music on headphones to farm. I get into a fire related slime destroying trance :)

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • quadfather 18 Jun 2013 13:19:08 11,978 posts
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    oh and neck 10 humanity too then try it for shits and giggles

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • Dr_Mech 18 Jun 2013 13:19:55 1,019 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    OK, one more question, bet I've missed something obvious.

    Weapons have physical damage, magic damage, fire damage or lightning damage. Often more than one damage type applies. Is the total attack value of the weapon therefore the total of these numbers?

    Example: a Zwei +15 does 325 physical damage (STR scale C) but a Lightning Zwei +5 does 325 physical and 325 lightning damage for a total of 650 damage (no scale). And an Occult Zwei +5 does 231 physical and 245 magic damage for a total of 476 damage (Str scale D), making it probably the best for a STR build.
    Yes it is BUT the reason elemental weapons usually aren't as great as a normal weapon are:

    1) They can't be buffed with spells like Crystal Magic weapon, Sunlight blade or even resins.

    2) The enemy gets to apply 2 resistances to your damage, so for lightning they'll resist both the physical component and the lightning component. This isn't a major problem unless the boss is highly resistant to one type of element (Orns is resistant to lightning, Smough is resistant to Fire, Super Smough is resistant to both) meaning your damage output drops like a stone since most bosses also resist physical decently as well, turning that 600 damage into 100 damage if the boss is highly resistant (like Knight Artorias), compared to the 300-400 damage you'd get with purely physical.

    The DLC bosses, even in regular game, all have fairly high resistances to elemental and magic attacks, meaning a physical weapon with scaling will actually do more damage.
  • fiery_jackass 18 Jun 2013 13:22:26 470 posts
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    >edit: yeah, what Dr_Mech said.

    @LeoliansBro
    damage is a fair bit more complicated than that, alas. It's more to do with the interaction between damage types and the resistances of the people/monsters you're hitting.

    There are some really good discussions of it elsewhere online (forums at the wikis etc), well worth a read. The upshot is that, in practical terms, Elemental weapons get overtaken damage-wise by even reasonably-scaling weapons a lot faster than you might think. This is obviously further magnified if you choose to buff a normal weapon before twonking something with it.

    The other thing worth noting is that certain physical damage types (like thrust) aren't generally as well resisted as others and so tend to be slightly more valuable.

    The only point to Raw weapons, as far as I can see, is getting the associated trophy if you're into that.

    Edited by fiery_jackass at 13:23:24 18-06-2013

    Edited by fiery_jackass at 13:24:19 18-06-2013
  • Mr_Sleep 18 Jun 2013 13:26:58 16,933 posts
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    Speaking of music, what did/do people listen to when playing the game? I tended towards minimal techno and house. For some reason it just suits it perfectly. The Bleep.com top 100 of 2012 is an absolutely perfect soundtrack. I love games that let me select the music!

    Good knowledge regarding weapons, I'd always assumed the elemental stuff was better for the first play through. Purely through experience though.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • LeoliansBro 18 Jun 2013 13:29:50 43,796 posts
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    New Daft Punk album is perfect.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • quadfather 18 Jun 2013 13:30:19 11,978 posts
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    When farming, I normally put something hypnotic on, like Oka

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • Mr_Sleep 18 Jun 2013 13:35:02 16,933 posts
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    Oh yeah, I can definitely see Daft Punk being good. Don't know Oka, time to check that out. I can imagine something like Autechre would be good too.

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • LeoliansBro 18 Jun 2013 13:40:51 43,796 posts
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    Oh and thanks to Dr_Mech and fiery_jackass (the internet spawns strange names). Does that mean therefore that, assuming no resistance on the target, a lightning Zwei would therefore cause 650 damage as above?

    Because that ain't bad...

    (Also not sure I agree with the double resistance thing. 100/100 physical/fire damage and 200 physical damage will be the same against someone who has 25%/25% physical/fire resistance...)

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • quadfather 18 Jun 2013 13:43:06 11,978 posts
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    Funnily enough, I first heard about oka from watching a demon's souls video on youtube. Think it was the vid that shows you how to do some farming in 4-1.

    Anyway, this is one of their tracks I sometimes go with

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • Mr_Sleep 18 Jun 2013 13:45:19 16,933 posts
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    Yeah I had a quick listen to that, it's a bit too happy for a Dark Souls escapade! ;-)

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • LeoliansBro 18 Jun 2013 13:46:43 43,796 posts
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    Midnight Juggernauts get a look in as well. Thinking about it, the Tron soundtrack would be pretty cool as well (give it a Blood Dragon feel).

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Dr_Mech 18 Jun 2013 13:48:33 1,019 posts
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    @LeoliansBro

    Very few enemies have no resistances, IIRC it is only hollow enemies near the start of the game that have no resistances to anything.

    Let me put it this way, My +5 Lightning Gargoyle Halberd does 575 damage in total, against Ornstein that drops to about 100 damage (since he is outright immune to lightning damage IIRC, or atleast 90% of it), against Knight Artorias it drops to 80 (because he resist physical more), now if I had a purely physical weapon which dealt 600 damage, lets say the Demon Great Axe +15 at 46 strength. I deal 400 damage to Ornstein because it is purely physical and around 370 on Knight Artorias.

    Edited by Dr_Mech at 13:52:17 18-06-2013
  • quadfather 18 Jun 2013 13:54:38 11,978 posts
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    Mr_Sleep wrote:
    Yeah I had a quick listen to that, it's a bit too happy for a Dark Souls escapade! ;-)
    True, it's too upbeat isn't it! But for some reason it really works well when doing the slimes in the depths :D

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • LeoliansBro 18 Jun 2013 14:01:35 43,796 posts
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    Cheers Dr_Mech, that does make sense and explains why lightning / fire is seen as a bit of a dead end for your preferred weapons.

    So, I'm going for:

    Zweihander +15
    Dragon Bone FIST +5
    Lightning Gargoyle's Halberd +5
    Queelag's Furysword (because I like it)
    Divine Longsword +10 (or however far it gets before I don't need it again).

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Dr_Mech 18 Jun 2013 14:57:19 1,019 posts
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    The Dragon Bone fist is...not that great on its own unless you're in a buff build (ye olde strength/faith combo).

    Now on paper it seems pretty good because you can swing it a lot before running out of endurance BUT against bosses it just seems to miss quite a bit even at point blank range as the range is awful and if they move even slightly you'll end up missing.

    I speak from experience when attempting my fist only run and went pure strength without any buffs.

    If you've got Power Within, a buff (even Great magic weapon) and decent armour along with a lot of estus flaks you can outtank most bosses though.
  • fiery_jackass 18 Jun 2013 14:57:33 470 posts
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    @LeoliansBro
    always worth having a nicely levelled bow to hand, I find. Also worth noting that heavy bows (Dragonslayer, Gough's) still knock targets for six even if you don't meet the stats (which you probably will). No damage worth a damn if you haven't got those stats, but perfectly good for bouncing enemies off ledges/cliffs etc.

    one thing on the divine weaponry: if you divine up a club or a mace it "breaks" the skeletons on impact, meaning that they have to reconstruct before they can attack. Very handy when being mobbed, not sure if the longsword can replicate that.

    these days I mostly do DEX, my STR builds tended towards the Demon Great Machete/Axe because... well just because.
  • Deleted user 18 June 2013 15:06:58
    Gah. Was just trying to beat the Darkroot Basin Hydra again and got down to the last head and my fucking connection died and the game quit. I loaded my save up and all its heads were restored and it smashed me right away.

    Now, every time I try and kill it again, I can't quite seem to get in the same spot and it destroys me.
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