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  • Dr_Mech 26 May 2013 15:43:59 1,040 posts
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    Well with my Fat Official cosplay build finished I decided to just fuck around in Anor Londo. I realised nobody really remembers invaders that just kill you, people remember the weird and the helpful, so...

    I'd invade, leave a trail of goodies (Titanite shards), use Aural Decoy to mimic laughter and then have the host follow me on an adventure which would lead into them getting stuff (Demon titanite, Large Titanite shards, Titanite chunks etc.) and once the trail was complete, I'd wave, bow and black Crystal out. For an evening I became 'The Laughing Man of Anor Londo'. Two lucky people got Titanite slabs because I won't be playing that character again (though fun, the damage output is meh with the Crescent axe). Several chased me throughout Anor Londo like some kind of dark fantasy Benny Hill sketch.

    One group of three I was tempted to do a dick move with. Basically they followed me all the way out to the start of Anor Londo by the area you have to run up to get to the rafters in the painting guardian set. They didn't follow me up there and sat there waiting in the area the Gargoyle spawns. I make my way through the rafters and onto the other side, pull the lever to call the staircase up.

    I realised I'd basically trapped them back at the start, meaning they'd have to do the rafter run again. I pondered just black crystalling out at that point but I decided not to be that much of a douchebag and lowered the staircase so the chase could continue.
  • SuperBas 26 May 2013 15:52:02 1,456 posts
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    The rafter run really isn't that hard, so you should have forced them to do it.
  • Duffking 26 May 2013 16:10:04 7,270 posts
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    For a PVE dex build if I'm jumping into NG+ in the near future. I'm at level 68 or so at the moment and have dex in the mid 30s, and str/end around the 20s. Should I stop putting points into stats past 40 or just carry on with miniscule gains? I figure if you stop putting points in to those skills you end up with an all rounder every time, hence I've never really bothered with NG+...
  • Dr_Mech 27 May 2013 06:54:30 1,040 posts
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    For weapon scaling, stop at 40 unless you're going for the bigger strength weapons or you want Havel's greatshield but since you're not a strength build that wouldn't matter.

    Dex is best to stop at 40 for weapon scaling or 45 for casting speed increase.

    Having 20 points in Strength lends itself more to a Quality build than a pure dex build (which usually stops at 16 apparently for the Halbred/Great Scythe). Quality builds usually end up 27 Strength/40 Dex for two handing weapons.

    Because Dex tend to top out at 40 AND there are no 40+ dex requiring weapons you tend to see Dex build turn into Dex/Int spellblade builds while pure Strength builds tend to push towards 46 (Demon Greataxe), 50 (Havel's Greatshield) and sometimes 58 if they're feeling the need for Smough's Hammer one handed.

    They also heavily invest in Endurance and Vitality to 40 since Strength builds tend to mean tank characters meaning they don't have as much leeway statwise like a Dex build does.

    My NG++ Characters, the Strength/Faith guy had 50 Strength, 40 End, 40 Vit and I think 38 Faith at 131 with a few wasted points in Dex (which should have gone to Faith but it was my first character). While the Caster had 45 int, 40 Dex, can't remember End and Vit with 20 points in Strength to wield the DLC boss tailcut weapon for when she needed something non-magical damage (like most of the DLC bosses or someone using Great Magic Barrier in PvP).

    Side note:
    Decided sincee Goodfella said good things about the Black Knight weapons I'd make a build around one, only one I could get to drop fairly near the start was the Black Knight Greatsword (tried Halbred, Sword and Greatsword).

    Sweet lord I see what you mean, unupgraded with the starts to onehand it I oneshot Capra with a twohanded plunging attack. Now at +5 the twohanded R2 hits for 700+ damage, it isn't really any slower to fire off than the harder hitting strength weapons attacks but it deals a huge amount of damage.
  • Metalfish 27 May 2013 09:10:01 8,819 posts
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    Isn't smough's hammer a bit shit though?
  • Duffking 27 May 2013 13:19:17 7,270 posts
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    Dr_Mech wrote:
    For weapon scaling, stop at 40 unless you're going for the bigger strength weapons or you want Havel's greatshield but since you're not a strength build that wouldn't matter.

    Dex is best to stop at 40 for weapon scaling or 45 for casting speed increase.

    Having 20 points in Strength lends itself more to a Quality build than a pure dex build (which usually stops at 16 apparently for the Halbred/Great Scythe). Quality builds usually end up 27 Strength/40 Dex for two handing weapons.

    Because Dex tend to top out at 40 AND there are no 40+ dex requiring weapons you tend to see Dex build turn into Dex/Int spellblade builds while pure Strength builds tend to push towards 46 (Demon Greataxe), 50 (Havel's Greatshield) and sometimes 58 if they're feeling the need for Smough's Hammer one handed.

    They also heavily invest in Endurance and Vitality to 40 since Strength builds tend to mean tank characters meaning they don't have as much leeway statwise like a Dex build does.

    My NG++ Characters, the Strength/Faith guy had 50 Strength, 40 End, 40 Vit and I think 38 Faith at 131 with a few wasted points in Dex (which should have gone to Faith but it was my first character). While the Caster had 45 int, 40 Dex, can't remember End and Vit with 20 points in Strength to wield the DLC boss tailcut weapon for when she needed something non-magical damage (like most of the DLC bosses or someone using Great Magic Barrier in PvP).

    Side note:
    Decided sincee Goodfella said good things about the Black Knight weapons I'd make a build around one, only one I could get to drop fairly near the start was the Black Knight Greatsword (tried Halbred, Sword and Greatsword).

    Sweet lord I see what you mean, unupgraded with the starts to onehand it I oneshot Capra with a twohanded plunging attack. Now at +5 the twohanded R2 hits for 700+ damage, it isn't really any slower to fire off than the harder hitting strength weapons attacks but it deals a huge amount of damage.
    Thanks. Just realised I wrote str/end not vit/end, str I think is at 16 as that's what I need to wield Quelaag's Furysword.
  • Dr_Mech 27 May 2013 16:12:37 1,040 posts
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    Metalfish wrote:
    Isn't smough's hammer a bit shit though?
    yes, yes it is.

    Well it isn't shit but it isn't great either but if you've got the strength to wield Smough's Hammer you're more than likely stick to using the Demon Greataxe since you'll be doing more damage that way but people like to Cosplay so some will go for it.
  • King_Edward 27 May 2013 16:52:17 11,454 posts
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    Finally, finally! A Channellers Trident. \o/
  • Dr_Mech 27 May 2013 17:42:08 1,040 posts
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    Annoying thing is I ALWAYS get them on the first bloody channeler on characters that can't actually use it due to not being int focused but on characters that can use it, it never drops.
  • matrim83 27 May 2013 19:21:44 5,587 posts
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    Does the buff on the trident also not work if you dont meet the requirements?

    Valar morghulis.

  • Deleted user 27 May 2013 20:22:15
    Yup. As long as you can weild it it works on those AI in the area. God-like for a Gravelord like me :)
  • Architect_z 28 May 2013 09:02:15 2,385 posts
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    @King_Edward - Ok buddy tried again over the weekend, and still can't find the Paladin set, I just gotta assume its been glitched. :(
    I'll add you to my friends list if you're still up for a trade.
  • BTBAM 28 May 2013 09:13:04 1,591 posts
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    Been reading a lot about this game as want another one to sink my teeth into after Skyrim. I tried dragon age which was dull, kingdom of amular was dull too and i gave up on both. I was looking for easy to get to grips with RPGs.

    Is this really that hard? Are there any benefits of getting the limited edition version? Think I will look for it today. Everything I read is drawing me in but also putting me off at the same time! Is there fast travel? Do you respawn where you died or miles away?
  • Blerk Moderator 28 May 2013 09:16:05 48,225 posts
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    Be aware if you're thinking of buying an Xbox-flavoured version - the Games on Demand version of Dark Souls is supposed to be part of Deals of the Week from today, so if you're a Gold subscriber it might be worth hanging on and seeing what sort of price they come up with (it's currently 14.99 on GoD, before the sale starts).

    Edit: Also the Artorias of the Abyss DLC is 600 points (half price) from later on today, too.

    Edited by Blerk at 09:17:15 28-05-2013
  • quadfather 28 May 2013 09:37:24 12,270 posts
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    wow, titanite catch pole. it's been a while since I saw one of those drop

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • King_Edward 28 May 2013 09:45:17 11,454 posts
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    @Architect_z

    Anytime. I try to get an hour in after work most nights.
  • Tuffty 28 May 2013 09:45:57 1,609 posts
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    BTBAM wrote:
    Been reading a lot about this game as want another one to sink my teeth into after Skyrim. I tried dragon age which was dull, kingdom of amular was dull too and i gave up on both. I was looking for easy to get to grips with RPGs.

    Is this really that hard? Are there any benefits of getting the limited edition version? Think I will look for it today. Everything I read is drawing me in but also putting me off at the same time! Is there fast travel? Do you respawn where you died or miles away?
    Dark Souls is constantly hard, but rarely unfair. Those first few hours will be tough and certainly daunting, but if you commit yourself to it, the game will reward you in a way few games do these days. For me, personally, it's the thrill of being set a challenge and being able to overcome it. I view dying in this game as a lesson - "Ok, I fucked up. But I'll know to block next time" Things like that, which will just make you feel like a badass in due time and the satisfaction of getting past that one boss who was giving you grief is always satisfying.

    I would absolutely recommend Dark Souls to everybody, but at the same time I can understand if people wouldn't like it. But luckily, you can pick it up for relatively cheap now so the barrier of entry shouldn't seem so high. Don't forget, Demons Souls, the predecessor, is free as part of PS Plus in June, which might be a good option too if you have it.

    Edited by Tuffty at 09:46:49 28-05-2013
  • Widge Moderator 28 May 2013 10:02:36 13,676 posts
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    BTBAM wrote:
    Been reading a lot about this game as want another one to sink my teeth into after Skyrim. I tried dragon age which was dull, kingdom of amular was dull too and i gave up on both. I was looking for easy to get to grips with RPGs.

    Is this really that hard? Are there any benefits of getting the limited edition version? Think I will look for it today. Everything I read is drawing me in but also putting me off at the same time! Is there fast travel? Do you respawn where you died or miles away?
    It is less hard, more challenging. Dying is a learning mechanic in this game. There will be frequent moments as you push into unexplored territory where you get killed. You'll use that as experience and learn to tackle that place in a way where you don't die. As your mind builds up a map of the game, and its foes, you start to be able to tackle parts of it without thinking - although carelessness can still get you killed quite quickly.

    Still, if you come from games where you get "hurt" but not killed a lot, it will be a surprise. Having something go wrong can pretty much end your life right there, where other games would offer you a chance to run away and recoup.

    There is no fast travel until later in the game but the structure of the world is impeccable. You'll push forwards until you hit a brick wall of challenge, at which point you will go off and explore elsewhere and find new avenues that way.

    You respawn at bonfires. This is the key mechanic. The further away from a bonfire you are, the more tension will rack up. Will that fog gate lead to a boss, ready to put your hard won souls at risk?

    I remember pushing through to the main chapel area of undead burg. The slow crawl and vague hope of hitting a bonfire as my estus was drained, then the relief at catching hold of "BONFIRE THIS WAY" messages on the floor - which amusingly solved a left/right decision, the other way taking me into a place crammed with nasties.

    I'd say it is easy to grasp but will give you many layers to master, and I can be a bit casual about what games I try.

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  • Dr_Mech 28 May 2013 15:45:26 1,040 posts
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    BTBAM wrote:
    Been reading a lot about this game as want another one to sink my teeth into after Skyrim. I tried dragon age which was dull, kingdom of amular was dull too and i gave up on both. I was looking for easy to get to grips with RPGs.

    Is this really that hard? Are there any benefits of getting the limited edition version? Think I will look for it today. Everything I read is drawing me in but also putting me off at the same time! Is there fast travel? Do you respawn where you died or miles away?
    As other have said, the difficulty is perhaps a bit overstated, its predecessor Demon Souls was much harder if only because it had no check pointing in levels (unlike Dark Souls which is an almost seemless world, only three loading screens in the entire game for changing areas, Demon Souls had a level hub and you selected your levels from there) you either killed a boss or had to do the whole thing again (though you could open shortcuts). Dark souls has decent checkpointing (through Bonfires) in each area.

    It is challenging and does not suffer fools but it is never unfair. Look at enviromental clues and proceed with caution, keep your shield raised if you're going into unfamiliar territory. It is one of those games where first time through you'll be inching your way forward but after the second or third time through you'll know the lay of the land and enemy placement, thus you can blitz through the early parts of the game with ease.

    Fast Travel is something earned in Dark Souls, to get it you have to beat what is potentially one of the hardest bosses in the game if you do it solo (at the halfway point of the game as well, the DLC bosses are probably harder though and the final boss is most challenging if you don't know his 'weakness').

    You respawn at Bonfires, which, as mentioned, are like checkpoints, usually you'll have one at the start of an area, one in the middle and then occasionally one after the boss dies. Do not consider getting killed a bad thing, consider it more of a learning experience so they you'll know that particular instance for next time.

    Oh if something looks like a trap, it probably is.

    Check item descriptions, now I'm not talking about basic weapons but things like keys, they will often hint at where to go and even give hints for the bosses up ahead.

    Don't be afraid to summon help, there is no shame in getting a few people to give you a hand, whether they be NPCs or other players. An entire covenant exists within the game to promote "Jolly Cooperation!", if you see a gold summon sign, that means they dedicate themselves to helping out others and if you miss them, then you must be blind! ha ha! (sorry channelling an NPC there).

    Interestingly the game starts out at its hardest, if only because you have crappy equipment which you can't upgrade, stats are naff and if you're one of the classes that doesn't get a decent shield, you get damaged through blocking. Once things start getting upgraded and your knowledge of the game grows then the game remains challenging BUT it isn't quite as knife edge.

    To make the game easier, start as a Knight, your starting set is actually pretty good (there is an Elite version of it somewhere in the game though which is better), you get a decent shield and a decent sword. Focus on upping your Strength, Vitality and Endurance to 40 as your three main goals. There is a certain shield that almost breaks the game but it has a decent strength requirement to wield it. Basically you want to go as big a weapon as you can onehand, as heavier and defensive armour as you can go and the biggest shield you can get, become a tank type character. Tank types are the easiest type to play since the high health and high armour allow for little screw ups here and there to not be the deathknell they are on other play styles. The shield I mentioned blocks like a champion, even boss hits will barely make a dent in your stamina bar (though do remember to lower it occasionally to regain your stamina) unless it is magic damage, then you'll have to switch to a high magic blocking shield.

    You'll be slow, roll like a drunken cat (to say 'very ungracefully') but you'll hit hard and can take hits back.

    Edited by Dr_Mech at 16:02:00 28-05-2013
  • BTBAM 28 May 2013 23:55:19 1,591 posts
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    What I love about this game is how excited and interested people are in it. Sounds like an amazing experience once you get started. I needed something to ride me over until summer holidays, so I went for tomb raider and dragons dogma for the price of dark souls and have made an educated choice to get dark souls on the first day of summer hols so I can really get my teeth into it! Sounds like a transcendental gaming adventure and I really want to lose my days in it.

    Thanks so much for your detailed replies!
  • mumtoucher 29 May 2013 00:05:39 285 posts
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    and days in it you will lose :D
  • Widge Moderator 29 May 2013 08:51:33 13,676 posts
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    This is the thing I love most about Dark Souls:

    I was perusing a Resident Advisor news article and scanning through the comments. One person's response to the untold joy of new audio was a solitary posting of "PRAISE THE SUN!"... and the best thing was, the other people *just knew*.

    _ _ _

    www.inverted-audio.com

  • Widge Moderator 29 May 2013 08:59:56 13,676 posts
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    BTBAM wrote:
    What I love about this game is how excited and interested people are in it. Sounds like an amazing experience once you get started. I needed something to ride me over until summer holidays, so I went for tomb raider and dragons dogma for the price of dark souls and have made an educated choice to get dark souls on the first day of summer hols so I can really get my teeth into it! Sounds like a transcendental gaming adventure and I really want to lose my days in it.

    Thanks so much for your detailed replies!
    Dark Souls is all about caution, circling, waiting for your moment to attack, and warily moving forwards in unknown areas.

    The opening section gives you nice easy to deal with foes in relatively simple circumstances, plus a boss which is easy (if you pay attention to the mantra of keeping distance, keeping stamina up, waiting for openings and taking advantage).

    The first area proper is where it starts to mix it up a bit. It took me forever just to get to my first bonfire as the arrangement of foes is devilishly clever. It puts you in scenarios where the environment, orientation and melee/ranged foes are perfectly poised to make it hard for you. Taking out each group then becomes a puzzle of strategy.

    Once I got to the first bonfire, I quickly found a way get me some throwing knives... I found these absolutely essential to lure foes into one on one situations. That effectively helped me pick my way through levels until I could pick up a shield that absorbed 100% damage.

    You may find yourself lurking around that first bonfire (if you go the right way ;)) and picking off foes, resetting and picking them off again - buffing up your levels and getting some equipment. This first hurdle is the hardest to get past (much as it was in Demon's Souls).

    Once you pass your first major boss, then the real push can start... I cite the ringing of the first bell as to where the game started to open up for me, where I could explore more comfortably and start poking my nose around.

    Ultimately, it is a hugely rewarding experience. Everything you do, every new step you take or challenge overcome fills you with joy. It is best experienced blind, without a knowledge of areas to come or secrets to overturn.

    _ _ _

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  • Deleted user 29 May 2013 09:08:26
    If I buy this what is the easiest starting class and what are the vital things to upgrade?
  • Lotos8ter 29 May 2013 09:22:46 2,360 posts
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    @Choppi Have a look at Dr Mech's post above for one route. I'd go a different path and choose Hunter starting class and go all out to get DEXterity and ENDurance towards 40 before looking at bossting other stats.
    To be honest, you're better off choosing your own path and making your own mistakes before settling on a build that suits your playing style. My first character in DS was a Pyromancer that I abandoned after 10 hours after lots of deaths. I then restarted as a Bandit and did a hell of a lot better as the high vitality helps keep you alive and forgives the odd mistake. I've since completed the game with both several times, but I think the Bandit is my highest level character about Lvl 190 :eek:

    Fiat Lux

  • Widge Moderator 29 May 2013 09:31:50 13,676 posts
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    Choppi wrote:
    If I buy this what is the easiest starting class and what are the vital things to upgrade?
    I went thief to get the master key and I *think* it came with black leather armour.

    I spent most of the game in that, upgrading it, and along with a poise ring, it saw me through quite happily.

    Seemed to find my own path this way, I read tales of people getting stuck into epic heavy armour and I was mostly in my initial set by the end of the game! That with a barbed sword with Chaos damage (flame and bleed damage), were significant hours of play!

    When DS2 comes out, I am going to try and pick an extreme role to play next... possibly a mage. I tended to be an "everything" character, meaning I was fast, had magic, could fight with weapons yet specialised in nothing - my homing soul mass was a bit wimpy, my armour set restricted by my load and my weapon tended to be a sword and shield.

    Oh that is a tip when starting out. Shield and spear is an excellent combination for the nervous explorer.

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  • LeoliansBro 29 May 2013 09:42:28 44,420 posts
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    I wouldn't recommend the Master Key for your first run through - it disjoints the experience and you can get very quickly out of your depth if you don't know what you're doing, by opening an advanced area before you're properly ready. I'd say go with one of the rings, or the pendant (I STILL BELIEVE).

    I'd suggest focussing on strength and working towards an upgraded Elite Knight armour set and the Claymore, which is possibly the best weapon (or at least the mst versatile) in the game. I love the Estoc as well, and it is very easy to get early doors (it's under the firelight shrine) - stabbing from behind a shield is a good way to learn the combat system with a safety net.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • King_Edward 29 May 2013 09:45:52 11,454 posts
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    I'd go with firebombs. Handy for the first couple of bosses.
  • Deleted user 29 May 2013 11:44:08
    Okay I've taken the plunge, downloading now. I'd brace yourself for lots of posts from me asking for help...how do I beat the first boss ffs!? That kind of thing. :)
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