BioShock Infinite - Irrational games Page 70

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  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 16 Sep 2013 21:45:15 6,654 posts
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    zomg livid agreed. AAA modern times perpetual qtes against backdrop of cutscenes. Really is endless. devs deserve money 50 percent.
  • -cerberus- 16 Sep 2013 21:47:30 2,708 posts
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    @moron: Regarding torrents - I am not here to judge but I hope you at least have the decency to spend a little bit of money on great DRM-free deals from GoodOldGames.com once in a while...

    "You see it too? For me, it's always like this..."
    (Angela Orosco - Silent Hill 2)

  • Punctum 16 Sep 2013 22:50:46 933 posts
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    moron wrote:
    Punctum wrote:
    moron wrote:
    BillCityfingers wrote:
    So... @moron. I take it you didn't play Half Life then? Did you chuck it after the monorail ride?
    I think good old cut scenes work better and more importantly are much shorter. Have no complains about RE 5 story
    How can you say 'cut scenes work better' when you haven't given the alternative a chance?

    Out of interest, have you played 'The Last Of Us'?
    Nope. I've got so tired of buying trash sequels of good games for 60$ with no demos, that I've got rid of all my consoles in 2010 and now playing on PC

    Get games from torrents, play them, buy if I like it (very rare). I thought Crysis 2 was bad, untill I played Crysis 3

    Though since people say it is only begining, I think I should try Bioshock Infinity with more patience. Bioshock 1 and 2 were fine games
    Could it be through your use of torrents games have lost all sense of value and have become disposable far sooner than if you had played them to get your money's worth?

    Out of interest, do you buy and listen to albums, or do you just buy/acquire singles and whack them on shuffle?
  • Mola_Ram 17 Sep 2013 01:18:40 7,232 posts
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    You would give games more of a chance if you bought them. The less you pay for something, the more disposable it is. Lack of demos does suck, though.
  • Armoured_Bear 29 Sep 2013 23:22:41 10,582 posts
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    I initially wasn't that impressed by this, shooty-shooty-zzz with added motion sockness so I had a break for a few months to play Pikmin 3, The Last Of Us and some Dark Souls.
    I went back tonight to give it one last try and I really enjoyed it, despite some frankly embarassing textures it's an amazing beautiful game, The Hall of Heroes looks amazing.
    The use of the vigours is getting better and I'm looking forward to continue with it but only shortish play sessions as the motion sockness is still there...

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  • Youthist 29 Sep 2013 23:28:24 10,010 posts
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    Hall of Heroes is a fantastic section of BI. It really is.

    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realise half of them are stupider than that

  • Telepathic.Geometry 30 Sep 2013 03:20:30 11,292 posts
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    I think that this game is a lot more fun if you experiment with your vigors. If you can't learn to do that, there's limited fun to be had with just the guns, and in certain battles, you simply cannot win without vigors. Not on the harder difficulties.

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  • Mola_Ram 30 Sep 2013 03:22:26 7,232 posts
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    Possession is marvelous. Such a good way of getting rid of annoying rocket guys.
  • Telepathic.Geometry 30 Sep 2013 03:30:25 11,292 posts
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    I prefer Return to Sender. That is, IMO, the most powerful and useful vigor in the game. It can be used for both defense and attack, and when you upgrade it, the salt usage is pretty reasonable.

    Bucking Bronco is probably better for dealing with swarms, but for powerful enemies, you can't beat RtS. ^-^

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  • Mola_Ram 30 Sep 2013 03:56:01 7,232 posts
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    You get it so late in the game, though. At least from my memory.
  • Telepathic.Geometry 30 Sep 2013 08:25:12 11,292 posts
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    True, and that's why.

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  • ecureuil 30 Sep 2013 12:40:38 76,723 posts
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    I could never time it right, found it far easier to just use bucking bronco and the hand cannon the entire time. Electricity for everything bucking bronco couldn't lift.
  • Zippity-zap 1 Oct 2013 02:28:14 2 posts
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    I found the first 20% and final 20% of this game to be wonderful (that ending!), but the 60% in between to be pretty bland.

    I mean, mechanically it plays better than the original Bioshock, but in terms of characterisation, pacing, and atmosphere, the game falls well short of greatness.I also was not a fan of the very limited (and not particularly interesting) enemy variety, even though encounters were generally fun and flexible.

    Another small thing that never failed to take me out of the game was finding hotdogs inside boxes of chocolates (WFT?), and ammo inside garbage bins.

    It's a solid 7/10 game, in my opinion, but not of the same quality as the original.
  • Deleted user 23 October 2013 16:36:30
    Just completed this, this afternoon.

    I really really enjoyed this. I'm still trying to make heads and tails of the ending, and kind of want to play through the last couple of hours again, i just read the EG ending article, and that kind of make sense to me, and is interesting.

    I loved the way, the game slowly unwraps, you arrive in this beautiful city, and then you slowly peel away a layer, then some more and more. At first i found the setting beautiful but empty, but it just unravels into something really interesting and i wanted to explore and read and watch everything, Even though i found Rapture more fun, and interesting to be in. Loved the overall vision of the world under comstock ideals, and i thought it wasn;t over egged, it was finely balanced. With right and left politics being quite vocal atm in america, it was a good story.

    And the story continues to un peel, and just keeps taking directions i was constantly engaged in.

    Gameplay was solid, just reading a few pages back , i mixed up my vigors quite often, i know there was no explanations for multi use, but i thought the way they are, it was obvious to experiment, water and electric, kind of make sense.

    The only real gripe with the game, is the endless searching. Endless, but the amount of money the game throws at you in the last half is so much you have to search.

    So Overall a 9/10 . And well done troy baker for sounding so much like Nolan North i thought he was DeWiit.

    Edited by joelstinton at 16:38:49 23-10-2013
  • King_Edward 23 Oct 2013 20:45:33 11,454 posts
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    So this turned up in my Twitter feed today. It's a very long, very angry critique of Bioshock Infinite's themes, art and conclusions (or lack of them), as well as a broader criticism of game reviewer standards and a call to embrace subjectivity.

    I flip flopped a few times reading it, but all in all I think it raises some excellent points.
  • Deleted user 23 October 2013 22:06:31
    @King_Edward It seems to me,he is more angry at game reviews scores as a whole. The whole second half of his review is bemoaning reviewers and the high school grading - which i agree with, but it felt as though he wanted to hate the game because of the praise it recieved. At the same time, he may have really hated it - and a game offering a debate on some pretty big themes, probably does need to be dissected and open for criticism.


    He makes some good points, but if you are going to deconstruct a game to that degree then the 2/10 score shows the limted scope of gaming, many more games are outright more black and white than what bioshock is - from racial charactures, to questionable motives - i would have maybe understood his criticism more, if he score was more fairly balanced to encorporate the stuff it does well - then again he may have really hated the game.

    But i agre that the 7-10 school of reviewing needs to go. big time. I often felt games should be open to more criticism , At the same time, this is gaming, some people just like to blow shit up but i feel these people are the most vocal and instantly dismiss a game below a 8 ( was a 7, but that has seem to have gone up).

    I been thinking of writing my own reviews as well, i guess with gaming, there is room for independant commentary .
  • Mola_Ram 23 Oct 2013 22:12:03 7,232 posts
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    I stopped taking him seriously after he called it the "worst game of this generation". I mean, come on now.
  • Deleted user 23 October 2013 22:18:56
    yeah i almost stopped there too, but carried on. He bemoans hyperbolic phrases and reviewers not attaching a genuine score to what he is writing, but comes out with that.

    At the same time, i think the whole thing is deffo worth reading, the whole second half focuses on the current state of the industry and review scores, i agreed with a lot of it in that regard, there was a lot i disagreed with, but a lot i did. Which i don't mind. I wish sometimes game journalists were more transparent in that regard.

    Problem is everyone scrolls down to the scores.
  • King_Edward 23 Oct 2013 22:55:54 11,454 posts
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    @joelstinton

    It's definitely more about review standards in general than just Bioshock, but he really did disliked Infinite especially (and Limbo, though he doesn't really go into that). I thought about starting a new thread for it but wasn't sure it was a new enough topic.

    In particular I agreed with there being a lack of real subjectivity in reviews; that there's a no diversity in where our reviews come from; and that gamers put Elizabeth on a pedestal she really didn't belong on.

    I also nearly stopped reading after he suggested Bioshock Infinite was the worst game ever thinking "this guy's surely a troll" before he went on to explain how absurd it is to think that just because their opinion doesn't match mine.

    Edited by King_Edward at 23:01:19 23-10-2013
  • Syrette 23 Oct 2013 22:58:17 43,296 posts
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    Stopped reading after the first sentence.

  • Deleted user 23 October 2013 23:02:10
    Is that the fault of the gamer or the reviewer though?

    Surely if a review lacks any creative style, people will just stop reading. I do read reviews, but I have come across this myself a number of times.
  • mikew1985 23 Oct 2013 23:55:38 12,656 posts
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    Really a load of bollocks and a terrible game to pick on for the tenuous point he is making.

    To use an example from the music world; OK computer is the worst album ever produced ever. Why does everyone agree it's brilliant?

    Ooh you stopped listening to me? Hmm.

    Some things are just universally loved. What a twat.

    Edited by mikew1985 at 23:57:02 23-10-2013
  • Mola_Ram 24 Oct 2013 00:51:37 7,232 posts
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    He probably thinks it's massively overrated, which is fair enough! But you don't need to compensate for that by pretending it is the worst thing ever.

    I do not believe that he really thinks that. Unless he's someone who has never, ever played a shitty game this generation, it just does not compute to me that you could finish Bioshock Infinite and rate it lower than everything else.

    The other points are interesting, but nothing that hasn't been made before more concisely.
  • dsmx 24 Oct 2013 01:48:33 7,589 posts
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    Infinite is a bit over rated but only because reviewers keep sticking to the need to give their own subjective opinions a number.

    I know giving a nice number at the end helps drive web traffic and create endless arguments in comments sections about the number but it's a completely pointless number in the end and while it helps at a glance to tell if a games worth playing it would be far better served by having a score system based on yes/no/maybe.

    Infinite is a very good game, but it's not as good as bioshock and it's also not the best game I've played this year but I did enjoy it more that GTA5 so that's something.

    "If we hit that bullseye the rest of the dominoes will fall like a a house of cards, checkmate." Zapp Brannigan

  • King_Edward 24 Oct 2013 06:40:19 11,454 posts
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    mikew1985 wrote:
    Really a load of bollocks and a terrible game to pick on for the tenuous point he is making.

    To use an example from the music world; OK computer is the worst album ever produced ever. Why does everyone agree it's brilliant?

    Ooh you stopped listening to me? Hmm.

    Some things are just universally loved. What a twat.
    They're not though. Nothing is universally loved, or should be, and Bioshock Infinite is the perfect game to illustrate this. It's grossly offensive, pretentious, weak minded, cowardly racism. The same thing it portrays it's city as being. I liked it subjectively, and so did you, but why is his (and anyone else's concise enough to why) subjectivity so unwanted?
  • Telepathic.Geometry 24 Oct 2013 07:45:14 11,292 posts
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    Game reviews can be really subjective (not very helpful unless the reader knows you), really objective or a bit of both. Personally, I like a game review where the reviewer attempts to understand the perspective of the reader for the most part and deconstruct the merits (or lack thereof) of a game logically and in a reasoned way, but also gives their personal opinion as well.

    Completely subjective reviews are not helpful unless you can understand what that score (or the body of the text) means to that reviewer.

    I think Chris Kohler made a nice point when he was told by someone on the tweets that based on his scathing appraisal of the Wii U that they had actually bought one, and FUCK YOU very much, to which he replied that he was happy that he had been able to inform their gaming decision.

    He said, I don't want you to buy it, or not buy it, I simply want you to be informed or entertained by how I felt about it. And what i may hate, you may love and that's okay...

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  • ecureuil 24 Oct 2013 07:54:17 76,723 posts
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    Christ that critique is awful. "Lot's of people like this game and I didn't, here's some pretentious rage wankery." What a tool.
  • King_Edward 24 Oct 2013 08:00:53 11,454 posts
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    How can a review be anything but completely subjective though? Even if you aim for objectivity you're really only getting a subjective assumption of what objectivity is. E.g. "You shouldn't buy Halo because I think that most people won't like Halo." And that's true. Lots of people don't like Halo, or even shooters at all or games, but does that make it objectively true?
  • Telepathic.Geometry 24 Oct 2013 08:15:06 11,292 posts
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    Well, you can certainly give relatively objective statements about the length of a game, the graphical fidelity, the difficulty, the novelty of the game, and a lot of other things.

    Naturally, those things have a bit of subjectivity too, but if you're a pro you can certainly make a fair fist of it.

    For example, saying Jak II was shit doesn't help anyone, but if I try to explain why I thought it was shit, because of the driving say, someone else might decide that they like it on that basis, or hate it. But either way, everyone learns something. Not just "it was shit!"

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