Are you a "nice guy"?

  • Page

    of 20 First / Last

    Previous
  • Genji 10 Aug 2010 07:23:21 19,691 posts
    Seen 2 years ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    I was perusing TV Tropes when I came across this xkcd comic, and then this blog post on the matter, and then this series of pages. I think that last one is supposed to be a parody or something, although I submit that there is more to being funny than simply being loudmouthed and abusive.

    Aaanyway. They're all fairly old - apologies if they've been discussed before - but all touch on things that I previously had not given much thought to: that is, the nature of my own "niceness", past and present.

    I don't think I've ever been one of those "Nice Guys" that get torn down to various degrees in the links - at least not completely. I can't recall ever making friends with a girl specifically to get in her pants. Sometimes I will want to take it beyond friendship, but I don't think I'd ever start a friendship if I didn't find the girl interesting in the first place, even as a friend.

    And I've never continued to pursue a girl friend after she's told me that she's not interested. Occasionally, it has hurt the friendship, but mostly because of the embarrassment and the weirdness that can ensue.

    But I confess to some feelings of bitterness in the past, or feelings that I "deserve" a relationship for trying to be a good guy, as if "niceness" was something to be traded for affection. In my defense, those feelings were the result of something that happened about 2 years ago, where a girlfriend broke up with me to be with the ex that cheated on her. It didn't help that the ex was my roommate who gave me permission to date her (it's complicated), then decided he wanted her back, and that I then had to listen to them fucking every night. ;_;

    But yes. I did get those bitter "nice guys finish last" feelings back then. I was sad, frustrated that I was getting less than what I "deserved". Sure, I probably wouldn't have had a future with her anyway, but that was how I felt.

    I'm a lot better now that I realised, to quote the wise Clint Eastwood, that "deserve's got nothing to do with it". I'm not entitled to anything just for trying to be decent. Right now, I like to believe that I'm just being decent for the sake of it, rather than as some sort of tactic. And now I'm happily in a kind of long-distance relationship that might not work out, but still happy. The bitterness seems to be mostly gone. It might return at some point, but who knows?

    Anyway. Sorry for the blog post about my life. :) The point of this thread was to discuss this with EG forum people! So, are you a nice guy? A Nice Guy? An asshole, "bad boy" or somewhere in between? I'd say most people are in between - the links at the top do seem to be filled with stereotypes, especially the last one.

    What are your stories? Epiphanies? Nuggets of advice?
  • Dirtbox 10 Aug 2010 07:26:03 76,328 posts
    Seen 19 minutes ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    No one ever won by being nice.

    +1 / Like / Tweet this post

  • thefilthandthefury 10 Aug 2010 07:28:05 24,901 posts
    Seen 3 minutes ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    I make a point of being nice, especially with people I don't know. I just think it's the right way to act. No need to be a rude arsehole, then everyone just hates your guts and I wouldn't want someone acting like that to me.
  • heyyo 10 Aug 2010 07:29:32 14,374 posts
    Seen 16 hours ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    Not at this time, not when it's raining outside and i'm stressed out looking for my damn watch.

    Cunt.
  • Merlinho 10 Aug 2010 07:34:09 5,909 posts
    Seen 12 months ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    Some of those things tick boxes, I guess the "being scared of rejection" and generally I am the "nice guy" to people I know. However, I've never had a girl "super best friend" who I've worshipped from afar. Heck, two of the main times I've developed friendships with girls, one turned into a relationship, one I professed my feelings to her and got knocked back.

    So I think I'm more a shy guy with elements of niceness.
  • sirtacos 10 Aug 2010 07:35:29 7,205 posts
    Seen 2 days ago
    Registered 6 years ago
    Being "nice" is great, being a "nice guy" as defined by women and the pick-up community (who jumped on the definition like a sex-starved zombie on brains - if zombies had sex with brains that is) isn't. The difference is that in the former, you're nice because you choose to be. In the latter, you're constantly nice out of supplication, anxiety or whatnot.

    One of the links you provided is pretty spot-on.

    It's already been discussed to death around these parts though.
  • Merlinho 10 Aug 2010 07:41:45 5,909 posts
    Seen 12 months ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    I blame Hugh Grant.
  • macksed 10 Aug 2010 07:46:00 3,798 posts
    Seen 8 hours ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    yeah so basically having no/low self esteem is the problem; but that can be difficult thing to change.
  • Genji 10 Aug 2010 07:46:44 19,691 posts
    Seen 2 years ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    sirtacos wrote:
    One of the links you provided is pretty spot-on.

    It's already been discussed to death around these parts though.
    Ah well. I hadn't seen a specific thread about it, and searching within other threads is a bit of a nightmare. Hence this new one.

    And I agree with a lot of what the link says, but it is unnecessarily harsh. I guess that's kind of the point, but I personally much prefer the second of my links. Even though it is a bit tl;dr.
  • Deleted user 10 August 2010 07:46:54
    Its funny (or rather, not) how those articles make a lot of assumptions and generalisations, making their points actually far more insidious than they realise. They're being as equally as guilty of presumption and sexism as the men they target.
  • Deleted user 10 August 2010 07:47:17
    Dirtbox wrote:
    No one ever won by being nice.

    Unless it's a niceness contest.
  • mwtb 10 Aug 2010 07:48:31 2,381 posts
    Seen 2 weeks ago
    Registered 10 years ago
    I couldn't really be arsed to read all of the second link (or even click on the third) but the one thing that I caught as I skimmed was the idea that niceness isn't much of a plus. That's true and not true. Being nice is probably not going to be the thing that gets you the specific girl you want or rocket you to the top of the career ladder but there are plenty of people who find a romantic audience and do fairly well just by smiling and being inoffensive.

    The "Nice Guy"s that the girl seems to be bitching about are something else altogether, more along the lines of sexual passive aggressives than just boringly nice blokes.
  • Genji 10 Aug 2010 07:48:32 19,691 posts
    Seen 2 years ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    squarejawhero wrote:
    Dirtbox wrote:
    No one ever won by being nice.

    Unless it's a niceness contest.
    But surely in that case 'winning' would be achieved by letting the other guy win?

    /brain explodes
  • FWB 10 Aug 2010 07:50:42 41,916 posts
    Seen 2 hours ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    There's being nice and there's being a walkover. You'll quickly find out which you are the moment you meet someone manipulative, demanding and selfish.
  • jonsaan 10 Aug 2010 07:51:35 25,248 posts
    Seen 15 hours ago
    Registered 8 years ago

    I bet you support Arsenal too right? :D

    FCUTA!

  • sport 10 Aug 2010 07:55:32 12,045 posts
    Seen 1 hour ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    This thread is never going to go down well in a forum of hard bastards.
  • Deleted user 10 August 2010 07:56:01
    From that article -

    A woman doesn't want a martyr. She wants an equal, caring, adult partner.

    But are they? Are they really? Whilst it's true that nobody wants a martyr (we got a recent example of that on the Match thread) there are many, many women I've met in life who're extremely judgemental of a man's social and economic standing. Only recently I met two women at a party who departed because there were no "rich men", for example. They want to be looked after. "Equal partners"? I think I've found and met fewer women interested in that than they want a sense of stability brought about by the man living up to a traditional role.

    But that could be London. :p

    Whilst it's great that nearly all articles bang on about certain men "not getting it", the article writers are also so sexually focussed and without experience or understanding of the male side of things, that they're almost as guilty as putting women on a pedastel as the men they profess to understand. WRONG. Human's are more complicated than that.
  • Genji 10 Aug 2010 07:59:54 19,691 posts
    Seen 2 years ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    sport wrote:
    This thread is never going to go down well in a forum of hard bastards.
    :D

    Just waiting for morriss to come along. Dirtbox has already been here, but it was pretty mild, considering. MTFU indeed. ;)
  • ScoutTech 10 Aug 2010 08:02:32 2,420 posts
    Seen 51 minutes ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    I would, unfortunately, count myself as a nice guy, but only in the sense of always ending up as that "your like a brother" person, not that I become friends to try & get in a girls pants. I probably do try too hard for girls I do really like if they are friends but would always take the friendship over anything going horribly wrong, which is prob why I always stay as the nice guy.

    I would take issue though with those articles, in that what they are classifying as nice guys aren't. If they are being assholes then that isn't being a nice guy. Conversely I would say you couldn't take their examples with too much credence as it is a single POV. For all we know they took full advantage of knowing the guys have liked them, milked them dry and then got all hurt when the guys thought something was coming of it, which is what is more common I find. Also they are taking the extremes and making a nice stereotype.

    My example would be someone at work. I like her, but know there would never be a relationship. I count her as a very close friend but she seems to have developed a hang up that other people think we are an item or could be. We have been off places together, go on road trips, one recently to pick up a car for her, I have done the whole get her home after a heavy pub trip and been there when 2 other guys have been complete arses. I get her things when she is down. Now looking at that with those sites in mind I am the Nice Guy and probably should be shot. But I KNOW I wouldn't get in to a relationship with her, but I feel like the nice guy as those 2 arses have been given free passes to carry on being arses, whereas I feel I am gradually being pushed away because of comments others have made to her about our friendship. It has got to the point that I can't be arsed any more and I am pulling away as well. Ok so this is a simplification of the situation and there are other things happening but it seems to follow the description of what they hate & yet I can't quite see where I am in the wrong? Aha, maybe that is the problem ;)

    Thinking very hard about it I guess it is one of those situations that is never clear cut but people try and turn the shades of grey into black and white. For that first blog, if it is unwanted attention she should tell the guy. If she is happy with the friendship go with that. Her second example is what I would class as a real nice guy & they way she dealt with it was better, so maybe more of her being more experienced as she was older but looking back she isn't seeing the difference in how she dealt with it.

    As for advice, don't get in the situation in the first place is my course of action. If someone doesn't show interest chalk it up to not worth pursuing and keep it as friends & be on the look out for that. Otherwise you'll just be sucked in. If they want a greater friendship it'll come & if they want more than friendship then if it hasn't happened or been noticeable fairly soon then it probably won't. Enjoy being nice and dependable but don't get taken advantage of. One rule i heard of from an IT POV was if someone hasn't invited them round for 3 months then the person isn't worth fixing a involved IT problem for. Someone else qualified this with invited round for a meal, which I think is along the right lines. If they are willing to do stuff for you and get involved with you then it is a sign your friendship is valued and worth moving on with.

    Ok enough of my brain barfing.
  • Dirtbox 10 Aug 2010 08:02:55 76,328 posts
    Seen 19 minutes ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    Genji wrote:
    squarejawhero wrote:
    Dirtbox wrote:
    No one ever won by being nice.

    Unless it's a niceness contest.
    But surely in that case 'winning' would be achieved by letting the other guy win?

    /brain explodes
    Second place IS first place.

    For those faggots.

    +1 / Like / Tweet this post

  • ScoutTech 10 Aug 2010 08:05:25 2,420 posts
    Seen 51 minutes ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    Whoops, I obviously over thought that one by the other responses!!! I'll run and hide until I MTFU ;)
  • FWB 10 Aug 2010 08:06:24 41,916 posts
    Seen 2 hours ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    squarejawhero wrote:
    From that article -

    A woman doesn't want a martyr. She wants an equal, caring, adult partner.

    But are they? Are they really? Whilst it's true that nobody wants a martyr (we got a recent example of that on the Match thread) there are many, many women I've met in life who're extremely judgemental of a man's social and economic standing. Only recently I met two women at a party who departed because there were no "rich men", for example. They want to be looked after. "Equal partners"? I think I've found and met fewer women interested in that than they want a sense of stability brought about by the man living up to a traditional role.

    But that could be London. :p

    Whilst it's great that nearly all articles bang on about certain men "not getting it", the article writers are also so sexually focussed and without experience or understanding of the male side of things, that they're almost as guilty as putting women on a pedastel as the men they profess to understand. WRONG. Human's are more complicated than that.

    Depends where you hang out. Many, if not most girls I socially meet seem to very much want an equal partner. Certainly economically. That said, you are right there are plenty that don't. Quite a few that also want an emotional crutch.

    Six of the girls I've been with in the last few years have been firely independent. All of them also didn't know their fathers. In fact the others who did were pretty damn needy. Wonder if there's a link.
  • Genji 10 Aug 2010 08:07:09 19,691 posts
    Seen 2 years ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    ScoutTech wrote:
    Whoops, I obviously over thought that one by the other responses!!! I'll run and hide until I MTFU ;)
    No no, stay! I appreciate the lengthier responses!
  • mwtb 10 Aug 2010 08:08:32 2,381 posts
    Seen 2 weeks ago
    Registered 10 years ago
    squarejawhero wrote:
    "Equal partners"? I think I've found and met fewer women interested in that than they want a sense of stability brought about by the man living up to a traditional role.

    For a given value of equal. I doubt most women mean that both partners bring the same salary to the table when they talk about equality in the relationship. They generally mean that they want the guy to not openly treat them like chattel (and mostly do what they want) but not go the other way and act like a doormat. Apart from that:

    "I've brought 50K a year, a house and my Merc to the relationship."
    "I've brought tits."

    Equal.
  • Deleted user 10 August 2010 08:09:56
    Not necessarily. But again, we're generalising.
  • heyyo 10 Aug 2010 08:10:20 14,374 posts
    Seen 16 hours ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    Desirable personality traits for a partner: stable personality with mostly positive traits that has cross-situational consistency and temporal stability.

    In other words, you want someone who is; mentally stable, doesn't put you down in front of others to impress them, is reliable and supportive and you can predict their behaviour to a high degree of accuracy.

    This is true for long-term relationships and true for both men and women. The difference comes in short-term relationships where the main 'thing' is physical attractiveness - short-term relationships are sought by younger people.
  • FWB 10 Aug 2010 08:10:21 41,916 posts
    Seen 2 hours ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    ScoutTech wrote:
    Whoops, I obviously over thought that one by the other responses!!! I'll run and hide until I MTFU ;)

    I firmly believe there is never just one person who will "fit" you. Obsessing over someone is means you are not opening yourself to someone else who might be equally, if not more, awesome. Once you are crushed for the first time and come out the other side, you realise that you do get over things and there's no need to be in a relationship that's really not good.

    I think it's in the Peep Show where he says we pretty much fancy everyone, but once we find someone we pretend we don't.
  • ScoutTech 10 Aug 2010 08:13:48 2,420 posts
    Seen 51 minutes ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    mwtb wrote:
    The "Nice Guy"s that the girl seems to be bitching about are something else altogether, more along the lines of sexual passive aggressives than just boringly nice blokes.

    I would agree with this. As always the label is being spread around far to easily. If someone is being nice to try and work their way in then they aren't being nice, they are being sly, manipulative and many other words but I wouldn't say nice.
  • woodnotes 10 Aug 2010 08:15:26 4,916 posts
    Seen 3 weeks ago
    Registered 11 years ago
    "Nice guys" often assume that all girls are "nice" and therefore want to be with blokes that are "nice". The reality is that this is nonsense. Girls may look nice but many are just as devilish as the dodgy blokes they end up wasting their life with.

    It does sometimes annoy me too when I see a little dirty chav with a not-so-chavvy stunner. But then I have to remember that she can't be that amazing, she's make the decision to go out with the little dirty chav. That alone is a bad personality trait.
  • mrpon 10 Aug 2010 08:15:45 27,643 posts
    Seen 5 hours ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    Look what happened to Nice Guy Eddie.

    Give yourself 5 or gig, you're worth it.

  • Page

    of 20 First / Last

    Previous
Log in or register to reply