Shogun - Total War 2 Page 2

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  • UncleLou Moderator 16 Jun 2010 10:13:44 35,551 posts
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    Magic Panda wrote:
    Tasty!

    Have very high hopes for this now after looking at the UI and stuff. Stylish. To the max.

    Hadn't seen this yet, wow. The UI looks fantastic indeed.
  • disusedgenius 16 Jun 2010 10:17:41 5,314 posts
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    No map though, which is either significant or completely redundant at this stage.
  • UncleLou Moderator 16 Jun 2010 10:18:21 35,551 posts
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    disusedgenius wrote:
    No map though, which is either significant or completely redundant at this stage.

    Guess it's just folded in and hiding behind the "+" in the upper right corner. :)
  • disusedgenius 16 Jun 2010 10:20:39 5,314 posts
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    That's significant! Kinda...

    /tail
    /legs
    /coat
  • ilmaestro 16 Jun 2010 10:25:53 32,423 posts
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    This might actually be my most anticipated game out there, and I almost never get excited about RTSs.

    4235

  • disusedgenius 16 Jun 2010 10:29:27 5,314 posts
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    I'm still anxious about the LOS visibilty issue (which I don't expect to be implimented, to be honest, it's probably quite an expensive thing to do). Hopefully EG will have some kind of interactive interview thing at some stage.
  • Zidargh 16 Jun 2010 11:32:17 1,675 posts
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    Wow. Too bad I won't have a machine capable of playing it for like 5 years.

    I tried the demo of Empire and it chugged slower than Attenborough up the stairs.
  • LionheartDJH 16 Jun 2010 18:41:57 19,454 posts
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    The actual game, with the updates and that, may run better than the demo Zidargh. I played the demo and it was quite chuggy, but I took a chance on the game itself and it runs sort of ok, despite the fact that I play it on a basic laptop with integrated graphics. Obviously everything is turned down to the lowest possible level, but it just about runs. The worst problem I have is probably the loading times which can be a pain.

    She dives for cheese pasties

  • Zidargh 17 Jun 2010 10:31:46 1,675 posts
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    Hmm. I thought that might be the case. I've got a 2 1/2 year old Toshiba Satellite 'gaming laptop' with an nvidia 8700 gm 512 mb .

    To be honest though, feedback from gamers made it out to be buggy as hell so I'm willing to hope that perhaps this one has been better integrated and that I won't have to scale it down. I'm of the mindset that if I'm playing a PC game, I shouldn't have to scale it below medium - otherwise there's no point having it.
  • Ranger_Ryu 18 Jun 2010 09:58:40 1,064 posts
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    This game does look quite good shame I won't be able to play it on my current PC,it's not able to play Empire either.........well the demo works ok but considering I'm short by a gig of RAM (I'm using Vista) I doubt the main game would work :p
  • Khanivor 18 Jun 2010 14:11:43 40,735 posts
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    Seems the Deepwater horizon disaster is so big that the oil slick travels back in time and spread itself all over the battlefield.
  • vijay_UK 20 Jun 2010 10:39:49 2,148 posts
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    UncleLou wrote:
    Magic Panda wrote:
    Tasty!

    Have very high hopes for this now after looking at the UI and stuff. Stylish. To the max.

    Hadn't seen this yet, wow. The UI looks fantastic indeed.

    Totally agree.
  • Hantheman 20 Jun 2010 21:07:30 540 posts
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    Looks goooooood. Might upgrade my PC for this.
  • Tigerteeth 20 Aug 2010 19:25:42 182 posts
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    Some ingame footage from Gamescom http://tv.esl.eu/de/vod/22344 presented by a highly confident Antipodean, and a slightly nervous Englishman.

    Looks mighty impressive, although my PC fears potential meltdown at the prospect of 56000 units on screen.

    No mention of pigs on fire, but we live in hope...
  • Articulate-Troll 21 Aug 2010 05:00:20 3,101 posts
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    Looks good, though he seemed a little bit too obsessed with mentioning the graphical features of the games, when I suspect the majority of Total War players just want decent AI and a campaign map that's easy to grasp.
  • Talbot 21 Aug 2010 14:30:28 62 posts
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    Sounds fucking terrible with the German language.

    As for 56,000 troops.... load of marketing tripe.

    Maybe 10,000 at best.
  • UncleLou Moderator 22 Aug 2010 23:23:05 35,551 posts
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    Talbot wrote:
    Sounds fucking terrible with the German language.

    Yeah, all sounds so much better when the Japanese speak English... (The intro has hilariously bad voice acting though, admittedly).

    Anyway, this and The Witcher 2 feel like the first two games to me that are really pulling ahead technically of what we're used to atm. Haven't had such a feeling of "progress" since Crysis came out, really.

  • Talbot 23 Aug 2010 09:52:27 62 posts
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    I've got a nasty feeling they won't have the AI fixed.

    However, Shogun is being brought back to the basic Rock, Paper and Scissors formula which means that the AI will have simpler code to follow which might ultimately mean it performs a bit better than the atrocities we have seen before.

    To be fair though, Napoleon did make the AI at least a little presentable on the battlefield.
  • Tigerteeth 4 Sep 2010 13:03:25 182 posts
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    Some six minutes of gameplay with a commentary from the developers - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbMuQI0ErXQ
  • White_Waffle 6 Sep 2010 10:38:13 11 posts
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    I think the scenario has the biggest potential game-play wise from all other Total War eras.
    I remember playing the first Shogun. The possibility to finish a campaign in about 20h (with some auto-battles in later stages) was great for me. I liked also Rome and both Medieval parts but never really got around finishing a grand campaign due to all the tiresome (for me) small rebels spawning and losing the overview.

    I would like for this to have deep strategy and tactics without becoming a bureaucrat in the later stages.
  • Zephro 6 Sep 2010 10:41:06 81 posts
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    Not this fallacy again. It always had a simple rock, paper scissors approach.

    Napoleon boils down to:
    Line infantry
    Light Infantry.
    Heavy Cavalry
    Light Cavalry
    Artillery.

    Arguably grenadiers/guards could be classed slightly differently due to being able to follow through a bayonet charge.

    The AI was just a nightmare because they didn't spend enough time on it.

    It's also mostly because formations are far more important in linear warfare rather than everyone just piling in to a melee.
  • UncleLou Moderator 6 Sep 2010 10:44:53 35,551 posts
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    Zephro wrote:

    The AI was just a nightmare because they didn't spend enough time on it.


    Well, they did hire one of the most prolific AI modders of the Total War modding scene for Empire.

    I think people wear rose-tinted glassed when it comes to Shogun's AI, to be honest. It was the first game at the time that did battles on such a scale, and ever since, people have been complaining that the AI allegedly got worse from game to game. I never saw it like this.
  • Zephro 6 Sep 2010 10:48:08 81 posts
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    Errr so? The modders don't re-write the fundamental algorithms underlying the engine do they. :-s

    Anyway the point about it being down to linear formations being far more complicated than just hand to hand is still relevant.
  • Zephro 6 Sep 2010 11:29:58 81 posts
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    "I think they're going to get to a point where there are more units on screen that there were historically for such small countries."

    Interestingly no. As the Japanese managed to field far larger field armies than their contemporary Europeans. I believe battles during the warring states period often saw 30,000 a side. Medieval Europe you'd be lucky to see 10,000.
  • Metalfish 6 Sep 2010 11:50:53 8,818 posts
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    I think AI is a lot less important in melee heavy combat. Empire probably worked really well for people who used conventional 1700 tactics (apart from sieges which are horrible with anything other than the smallest of skirmishes). My tendency to focus on leveraging my own artillery advantage whilst decisively removing my opponent's has always led to battles which I control the pace of. If the AI doesn't react quickly (and it normally didn't) they would find themselves sitting in a firestorm, whilst I press the fast-forward button and wait for their general to cop it.

    Essentially, I complain about the AI because I have become very good at murdering it by sitting still.
  • Zephro 6 Sep 2010 14:05:31 81 posts
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    Yes the main problem isn't the unit types (as that just devolves into a set of stats).

    But the consequences of mucking up your formation in linear fashion is crushing. "Woops I exposed the flank of my line infantry to artillery roundshot."

    I've found that deploying into an irregular line confuses the AI no end. It just seems to tell units to face off against mine, then that leaves their line with exposed flanks and gaps all over the place. Put that into medieval or shogun though and you'd barely notice as it's only hand to hand and the consequences are more minimal.
  • Zephro 6 Sep 2010 20:25:17 81 posts
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    I don't think so. Partly because games programmers and academics are worlds apart and often suspicious of one another. Partly because in many games the "AI programmer" is just a "gameplay programmer" rather than a dedicated role like graphics.

    Plus it's a different approach. Academics search for optimal solutions and whoever does the AI on a game is just expected to do the best they can given x% of the processing of a frame.
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