Shogun - Total War 2

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  • Tremendosaurus 3 Jun 2010 09:12:22 1,196 posts
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    Confirmed!

    /starts training ninjas
  • MetalDog 3 Jun 2010 09:14:20 23,706 posts
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    Please God, release a Steam-free version, you fuckers!

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • magicpanda 3 Jun 2010 09:18:36 13,006 posts
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    /squirts with joy
  • kalel 3 Jun 2010 09:19:00 83,839 posts
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    Now you're talking.
  • hiddenranbir 3 Jun 2010 09:48:26 5,743 posts
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    I'm just afraid they'll ruin what was good feelings about Shogun.

    I mean hand picking traits, that is just a very gamey thing to do. Genetic engineering ftw!
  • magicpanda 3 Jun 2010 09:54:49 13,006 posts
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    Shogun was classy and quite stylish in its own way. Good music as well. Hope they keep that all intact.

    Will be cool to see hundreds of Naginata and Warrior Monks hammering the fuck out of each other again but in glorious 3D. :)

    I haven't got round to Napoleon yet, did CA manage to tell a decent story for that?
  • disusedgenius 3 Jun 2010 10:04:50 5,140 posts
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    Aye, really liked Shogun, and all of the smaller TW games. Seemed much more strategic with the really limited umber of units so hopefully they won't over-pad the roster this time around.
  • hiddenranbir 3 Jun 2010 10:11:46 5,743 posts
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    Still seems like more units than original, which is going to I think interfere with the very simple and effective horse>archer>infantry triangle which had very unique and explicit combo breakers.

    Of course, I don't doubt they will make a competent game, ETW was too despite some of its niggling issues.

    I just hope the map isn't overloaded with pointless 3D, the classic 2D which was what the actual Daimyo was looking over was just awesome and had a big impact on flavour and depth to the whole experience of being a Daimyo.
  • cianchristopher 3 Jun 2010 10:18:20 6,360 posts
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    Not to nitpick or anything (well, actually, this is just to nitpick), but it's called Shogun 2: Total War, not Shogun: Total War 2.
  • disusedgenius 3 Jun 2010 10:19:17 5,140 posts
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    Yeah, 30-40 is about 3 times too many imo. Really liked the fact that the orginal factions had all the same troops, but with different bonuses.

    Of course the big, massive, MAJOR thing they need to re-implement is LOS in battle mode. Being able to hide a fuck-off army behind a hill is something which all the post-Rome games have badly missed imo.
  • Zidargh 3 Jun 2010 10:20:16 1,664 posts
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    I never got to play the first, but am I right in thinking it was probably the most revered Total War game?
  • cianchristopher 3 Jun 2010 10:21:12 6,360 posts
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    Nah, i think Rome: Total War is the "Call of Duty 4" of the series.

    Empire is definitely the "Modern Warfare 2"...
  • disusedgenius 3 Jun 2010 10:24:41 5,140 posts
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    Well medieval 1 is my favourite, but Shogun is revered because it's probably the only one of the series which has... restraint. Probably as much to do with limitation as design, but there you go.
  • Tremendosaurus 3 Jun 2010 14:02:38 1,196 posts
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    cianchristopher wrote:
    Not to nitpick or anything (well, actually, this is just to nitpick), but it's called Shogun 2: Total War, not Shogun: Total War 2.

    Yep, typed it wrong in my excitement :( Not that it matters that much, but any mods bored enough to change it?
  • TechnoHippy 3 Jun 2010 14:04:20 14,636 posts
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    MetalDog wrote:
    Please God, release a Steam-free version, you fuckers!

    This, a million times this. I've wanted a Shogun remake ever since Rome, but I'd like to actually be able to play it.

    My books, contests, reviews and author interviews on my blog

  • disusedgenius 3 Jun 2010 14:07:06 5,140 posts
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    Nah, Steam-only please so I can keep all my games in the same interface.
  • StarchildHypocrethes 3 Jun 2010 14:07:52 24,556 posts
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    This is incredibly exciting news.
  • WrongShui 3 Jun 2010 14:08:41 6,574 posts
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    disusedgenius wrote:
    Yeah, 30-40 is about 3 times too many imo. Really liked the fact that the orginal factions had all the same troops, but with different bonuses.

    Of course the big, massive, MAJOR thing they need to re-implement is LOS in battle mode. Being able to hide a fuck-off army behind a hill is something which all the post-Rome games have badly missed imo.

    The less units the less complicated the AI had to be, as more units came in the worse it got. The AI in Shogun used to genuinely surprise me and with 30-40 units I worry it still won't.

    Of course they can make up with it with some awesome ninja assassination sequences.
  • hiddenranbir 3 Jun 2010 14:12:31 5,743 posts
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    I just have alarm bells that they needed PhDs specifically brought in to create unnecessarily complex coded AI. Was no surprise that ETW AI would seize on in itself.

    I wonder about the moddability, but it seems the more entrenched it goes into Steamworks the less we get to do.
  • El_MUERkO 3 Jun 2010 14:15:31 16,831 posts
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    StarchildHypocrethes wrote:
    This is incredibly exciting news.

    after the last few games... not really
  • Whizzo 3 Jun 2010 14:36:39 42,758 posts
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    I doubt I'll be scanning and posting the manual for the game for the US gamers who got the shaft with the first Shogun at least.

    /remembers the old days of actually posting on the Usenet strategy group

    This space left intentionally blank.

  • Articulate-Troll 3 Jun 2010 14:56:43 3,104 posts
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    hiddenranbir wrote:

    I just hope the map isn't overloaded with pointless 3D, the classic 2D which was what the actual Daimyo was looking over was just awesome and had a big impact on flavour and depth to the whole experience of being a Daimyo.

    Agreed. The campaign map in Napoleon looked awesome but had worse frame rates than the the actual battles. They should make it simple and stylized, but with all the terrain features of the recent games. I'm also hoping it won't be as much of a system hog as recent Total War games have tended to be, but I suspect I'll probably be disappointed in that regard.
  • Scimarad 4 Jun 2010 07:30:52 8,499 posts
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    So am I the only one that would like to see 3 Kingdoms:Total War?
  • hiddenranbir 4 Jun 2010 07:53:37 5,743 posts
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    Yes. Peasant, poorly equipped armies with a handful of capable generals with exaggerated battle manoeuvres.

    By the way: I think some Chinese group have done this for Medieval 2. Not sure if it has had a translation.
  • Scimarad 4 Jun 2010 07:59:11 8,499 posts
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    Why do people always have to spoil things by bringing reality into the situation? ;)
  • Zephro 4 Jun 2010 10:03:07 81 posts
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    hiddenranbir wrote:
    I just have alarm bells that they needed PhDs specifically brought in to create unnecessarily complex coded AI. Was no surprise that ETW AI would seize on in itself.

    I wonder about the moddability, but it seems the more entrenched it goes into Steamworks the less we get to do.
    The less units the less complicated the AI had to be, as more units came in the worse it got. The AI in Shogun used to genuinely surprise me and with 30-40 units I worry it still won't.


    I'm very wary of both of these assertions. Partly because I know they don't have PhDs doing their game AI.

    It's not the number of units that complicates AI as variations on line infantry, light cav, heavy cav, artillery, skirmishers. Is still only 4-5 broad types like archers,spearmen,shock troops. The problems are that while "simple" AI works well for this kind of rock,paper,scissors thing in feudal times it starts to fall apart later on. All the AI will do is efficient A* searching through the space match it against a few scripts and pick something. But it doesn't have long term planning. That worked for Shogun and Medi because you're not under constant artillery fire so don't really have to make a big decision until your up close.

    Scripts are also terribly overly simple solutions for AI. If X do Y, rules are very brittle and fall apart the moment a human player does X but not in the way the script writer expected.
  • figgis 4 Jun 2010 10:19:52 7,382 posts
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    cianchristopher wrote:
    Nah, i think Rome: Total War is the "Call of Duty 4" of the series.

    Empire is definitely the "Modern Warfare 2"...

    Medieval 2 with the Stainless Steel Mod is my COD4.
  • hiddenranbir 7 Jun 2010 10:16:25 5,743 posts
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    So their blogs are full of lies sometimes, interesting.

    Long term goals don't necessarily end up being difficult to do, either. I also think its decision making should be made fuzzy. I'll be interesting to compare AI decision making between this and Elemental.
  • MetalDog 7 Jun 2010 10:19:18 23,706 posts
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    disusedgenius wrote:
    Nah, Steam-only please so I can keep all my games in the same interface.

    How would it being steam /only/ help you with that? Unless you're the sort of spacker that would buy the non-steam version and install it and then say 'oh damn'?

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • magicpanda 16 Jun 2010 10:12:05 13,006 posts
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    Tasty!

    Have very high hopes for this now after looking at the UI and stuff. Stylish. To the max.
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