The Official World Cup 2014 Thread Page 489

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  • Gemeo 6 Jul 2014 01:02:13 233 posts
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    Yep. Holland - Germany.
  • Shephard 6 Jul 2014 01:05:57 198 posts
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    DrStrangelove wrote:
    Please, make an exception to the rule that the established ones always win
    You must be afraid, given all your posts. Wow....
  • Syrette 6 Jul 2014 01:21:30 43,124 posts
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    THFourteen wrote:
    karlo87 wrote:
    And with that my interest in the world cup is pretty much gone
    Argentina vs Holland
    Brazil vs Germany

    If those don't float your boat I dunno why you bother with football.
    Going by how upset he gets if people say negative things about Liverpool, perhaps not bothering with the sport wouldn't be such a bad idea.

  • wogsy81 6 Jul 2014 01:42:08 719 posts
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    Hodgson got a 0-0 against Costa Rica with his reserve team and no one was calling him a genius after it.
  • Shephard 6 Jul 2014 01:49:59 198 posts
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    wogsy81 wrote:
    Hodgson got a 0-0 against Costa Rica with his reserve team and no one was calling him a genius after it.
    Dutch were a bit better...
  • DreadedWalrus 6 Jul 2014 06:52:43 305 posts
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    Remember how during the broadcast they were saying that the substitution must have been something that van Gaal discussed in advance with both goalkeepers? Apparently not.

    Coach Louis van Gaal, who takes over as Manchester United manager after the tournament, did not tell Cillessen he may come off before a shootout, although Krul had been informed it could happen.
    I suppose that explains the look of surprise on Cillessen's face at the time.
  • robc84 6 Jul 2014 07:31:27 5,343 posts
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    I completely missed the 2nd half of ET and pens as I fell asleep.

    So VG subbed his keeper for the pens? Bit harsh. But I guess if krul is superior at saving pens why not. Should have discussed it with both beforehand though imo.
  • kalel 6 Jul 2014 08:21:24 86,421 posts
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    Sounds like he did.

    I'm not quite sure why it's such a genius move. It's an obvious one. The only reason it won't have happened before is because it's unusual for your less good keeper to be better at pens.
  • DreadedWalrus 6 Jul 2014 08:32:25 305 posts
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    It's also rare that a team will still have at least one sub left after 120 minutes of football played. Most managers would prefer to use that third sub to put on a fresher player or for tactical reasons, and that's only if they're not forced to use their subs for injury reasons.
  • ResidentKnievel 6 Jul 2014 08:47:54 6,134 posts
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    If he was a tactical genius he wouldn't have played with 3 centre backs against a counter attacking team with one striker for most of normal time.

    It's like he figured out how to perfectly counter Spain in the first match but didn't bother to figure out how to beat any other team. Australia had 3 forwards so they were great on the counter attack against them, it was a mirror match against Chile and Mexico were good down the wings then let Holland have the ball as soon as they went 1-0 up.

    3-5-2 worked against Spain with their narrow midfield and possession football, and it'll probably work against Brazil, but it's been crap against the other teams they've faced and I'm surprised Van Gaal couldn't see that before these matches and played 4-3-3 from the start.

    /been reading zonal marking

    Edited by ResidentKnievel at 08:48:20 06-07-2014

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  • Shephard 6 Jul 2014 10:30:34 198 posts
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    ResidentKnievel wrote:
    If he was a tactical genius he wouldn't have played with 3 centre backs against a counter attacking team with one striker for most of normal time.

    It's like he figured out how to perfectly counter Spain in the first match but didn't bother to figure out how to beat any other team. Australia had 3 forwards so they were great on the counter attack against them, it was a mirror match against Chile and Mexico were good down the wings then let Holland have the ball as soon as they went 1-0 up.

    3-5-2 worked against Spain with their narrow midfield and possession football, and it'll probably work against Brazil, but it's been crap against the other teams they've faced and I'm surprised Van Gaal couldn't see that before these matches and played 4-3-3 from the start.

    /been reading zonal marking
    That is absolutely true. Van Gaal only prepared for the Spanish game, and after that he let his scouts inform him about the upcoming opponents. Officially he had planned to revert back to 4-3-3 against Australia, but the players wanted to continue with the system (and Van Gaal did not want to change too much after their win in the first game, so he basically listened. As the Dutch team is mostly made of unexperienced youngsters, the 5-3-2 system gives them a bit more certainty and the option to make a few mistakes without it costing them immediately)
  • djronz. 6 Jul 2014 10:38:57 255 posts
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    robc84 wrote:
    I completely missed the 2nd half of ET and pens as I fell asleep.

    So VG subbed his keeper for the pens? Bit harsh. But I guess if krul is superior at saving pens why not. Should have discussed it with both beforehand though imo.
    It seems a strange decision but maybe he figured a fresh keeper would be more alert than one who's just played 120 minutes? It worked whatever the reason.
  • fletch7100 6 Jul 2014 10:46:27 6,994 posts
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    @djronz.

    LVG mentioned it was part of their plan all along. Krull is little bit taller plus longer arm reach. He never told Cillessen he might be replaced if there was a penalty shootout, Krull was told he could be used in the shootout
  • Kay 6 Jul 2014 10:48:22 17,763 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Sounds like he did.

    I'm not quite sure why it's such a genius move. It's an obvious one. The only reason it won't have happened before is because it's unusual for your less good keeper to be better at pens.
    I don't think it's just a case of Krul being better at penalties - I think the BBC pointed out his record isn't exactly stellar - but he's clearly much better at gamesmanship. It was the psychological factor that made it a genius move, and it worked perfectly.
  • DreadedWalrus 6 Jul 2014 11:01:27 305 posts
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    IIRC, they said Krul had saved 2 out of his last 20 before the shootout started.

    At the time I was wondering if maybe the thought was that Cillessen might be a bit exhausted after being out there in the heat for 120 minutes, and wanted to bring on a fresh keeper who still had the "spring" in his legs.

    Whatever the reasoning, it clearly "worked" in that they got through (with the obvious caveat that we have no idea how Cillessen would have done), so fair play to van Gaal.
  • teamHAM 6 Jul 2014 11:03:33 2,773 posts
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    Cillessen is anything but a great keeper, not better than Krul at all in my opinion. However, Krul has a garbage record for Newcastle at saving penalties.

    So the whole thing struck me as being a bit strange.

    XBox Live, Origin, PSN and Steam: teamHAM

  • thedaveeyres 6 Jul 2014 11:14:07 10,709 posts
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    It doesn't matter that Krul is garbage at penalties in reality. All that matters is that by bringing him on, combined with Krul's "look at me, it's all about me" antics, convinced the Costa Ricans that they were facing some kind of penalty genius. Hence, two saves in five.

    Edited by thedaveeyres at 11:14:23 06-07-2014

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  • graysonavich 6 Jul 2014 11:17:40 7,309 posts
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    It was just pure narcissism. CRC looked done for and would have probably bottled a pen or two anyway. By subbing on Krul you focus the limelight back on your amazing tactical prowess and it covers up leaving Huntelaar on the bench when the game is crying out for him and somehow managing to shut out one of the most promising young players in the tournament eventually dragging him off after 70mins.

    Suddenly the headlines switch from a dire 0-0 draw against the minnows to having some magical precognitive ability in goalkeeping.

    Edited by graysonavich at 11:18:25 06-07-2014
  • Frogofdoom 6 Jul 2014 11:19:24 871 posts
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    Big gamble in a big moment. Very few managers would have the balls to try it.

    He is lucky it paid off or the press would be savaging him today. Not sure that would overly bother him though he doesnt have much time for them.

    Made for some great entertainment though.
  • danathjo 6 Jul 2014 11:24:03 7,245 posts
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    Krul was probably studying CR's penalties onthe iPad for a good hour before he went on too, that on top of fresh legs would have given him an advantage.
  • DanB24 6 Jul 2014 11:59:16 1,798 posts
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    He says it was because he's taller.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28180659
  • RedSparrows 6 Jul 2014 12:54:42 22,085 posts
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    Can we all agree that the use of the word 'genius' risks reaching 'literally' levels if current trends continue?
  • Humperfunk 6 Jul 2014 13:56:07 1,982 posts
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    Missed the game last night so only just realised they brought on Krul for the pens, hahaha great stuff!

    PSN & NNID: Wedjwants

  • kalel 6 Jul 2014 14:02:04 86,421 posts
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    Kay wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    Sounds like he did.

    I'm not quite sure why it's such a genius move. It's an obvious one. The only reason it won't have happened before is because it's unusual for your less good keeper to be better at pens.
    I don't think it's just a case of Krul being better at penalties - I think the BBC pointed out his record isn't exactly stellar - but he's clearly much better at gamesmanship. It was the psychological factor that made it a genius move, and it worked perfectly.
    Seems to me you could fairly easily teach a goalie to act like a cunt and get in players' faces. Making their arms and legs grow a few inches would be genius.

    It did work but again, I think genius is a massive overstatement. Anyone with a second goalie who happened to be better at saving penalties (for whatever reason) would have done the same if they also happened to have a sub left at that point.
  • grey_matters 6 Jul 2014 14:15:31 3,676 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Kay wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    Sounds like he did.

    I'm not quite sure why it's such a genius move. It's an obvious one. The only reason it won't have happened before is because it's unusual for your less good keeper to be better at pens.
    I don't think it's just a case of Krul being better at penalties - I think the BBC pointed out his record isn't exactly stellar - but he's clearly much better at gamesmanship. It was the psychological factor that made it a genius move, and it worked perfectly.
    Seems to me you could fairly easily teach a goalie to act like a cunt and get in players' faces. Making their arms and legs grow a few inches would be genius.

    It did work but again, I think genius is a massive overstatement. Anyone with a second goalie who happened to be better at saving penalties (for whatever reason) would have done the same if they also happened to have a sub left at that point.
    Yeah, I think it happened here with Sligo Rovers a couple of years back. Can't remember if it was considered "genius" but I think it was more a novelty than anything else. Of course, World Cups do tend to magnify the drama of everything hugely so it isn't exactly comparing like with like.
  • Bremenacht 6 Jul 2014 15:20:25 17,614 posts
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    RedSparrows wrote:
    Can we all agree that the use of the word 'genius' risks reaching 'literally' levels if current trends continue?
    Literally several pages of discussion over the definition of 'genius' is surely in order?
  • FWB 6 Jul 2014 15:21:23 43,881 posts
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    Another one to go with "world-class", "hyperbole" and "Deus Ex Machina".

    Edited by FWB at 15:21:35 06-07-2014
  • Tom_Servo 6 Jul 2014 15:26:29 17,330 posts
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    Describing Van Gaal as a genius is becoming a trope.
  • superbob85 6 Jul 2014 15:29:36 1,730 posts
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    If he delivers the world cup he will be a genius.
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